The 'Techniques for making techno' thread.

[danielmarshall]

thanks Jay.

One other thing. should I take the time to work on EQ before I compress or after? does it really matter?

EQ -> Compressor/ exciter -> EQ -> Limiter works for me.

[Metadog]

it's taken me years to approach a decent understanding of compression - tend to use it a lot but fairly mild settings

it's well important in techno

sometimes on individual sounds, sometimes on groups

been getting into putting a limiter on the main output, just tickling it - keep those fills in check, means you can push the overall level up slightly

tend to lightly compress kick & bass individually, then route them to same channel and slightly compress them together

use eq to help define layers, pulling best frequencies outta sounds you've got running, making room in mix by removing other freqs

[DotMatrix]

very interesting. I never would have focussed so much on compression. I think I've read too many magazine articles warning of over compressing things that I was too scared to do it enough.

I like what I'm hearing now though. once again great thread!!!

[danielmarshall]

it's taken me years to approach a decent understanding of compression - tend to use it a lot but fairly mild settings

it's well important in techno

sometimes on individual sounds, sometimes on groups

been getting into putting a limiter on the main output, just tickling it - keep those fills in check, means you can push the overall level up slightly

tend to lightly compress kick & bass individually, then route them to same channel and slightly compress them together

use eq to help define layers, pulling best frequencies outta sounds you've got running, making room in mix by removing other freqs

For some kinds of techno with stacks of dynamics (Detroit techno for example) overcompression will really suck the life out of it, but I kinda like a really overdriven sound on some of the more clubby tracks.

[Jay Pace]

Basically if you don't use compression at all your tracks will most likely sound flat, thin and a little lifeless.

Compression is crucial to techno.

[danielmarshall]

Yeah, but it's all too easy to get a little heavy handed with your threshold knob. I like to compress certain mixer tracks together very harshly (usually with a side chain), and some (vocals in particualar) hardly at all, with a limiter at the end of the chain to take the edge off some of the naughty trancients. It also "squarifies" the peaks of sine/ triangular/ saw waves to add a bit more texture and thickens up the bass.

[fresh_an_funky_design]

My main quam with outboard anything is that I can't have a project file to save the settings. Like the idea (and sound) of allot of gear, but sometimes it's hard to replicate that sound you had a couple of days ago even with all the knob numbers written down. Not only that, but I feel that I loose my ideas very quickly (don't do drugs kids), so if I can't have things up and running in minutes I'm lost. That, and with digital technology being at the point is is, and only getting better I'll take the hit in sound quality for the usabilty/ flexibility tradeoff anyday. Mind you, some valve compressors/ distortion units still make me wet...

i find i'm much more creative with my outboard than with software.

If i apply software compression i usually go for standard compression settings, wheras with outboard i really mess around doing slightly crazy settings and often get really good results.

I've started really battering my compressors recently, getting the overload lights glowing, get such a lovely distortion. not that heavy like the distortion you get from a lot of plug-ins, just a really nice warm sound

[fresh_an_funky_design]

very interesting. I never would have focussed so much on compression. I think I've read too many magazine articles warning of over compressing things that I was too scared to do it enough.

I like what I'm hearing now though. once again great thread!!!

too much master compression is shit, but i use lots of compression on some parts and very little on others.
I usually only use a ratio of 1.3 or 1.7 on the master to keep plenty of dynamics, as i think it's the dynamics that make music interesting and give it life.

Far to much stuff coming out at the moment is really loud but got no life at all

[DotMatrix]

Yeah I hear you. there are a few artists in particular. (I won't mention names) that I quite like their arrangements but you can tell they have compressed the life out of it. it's a shame really.

[Jay Pace]

All a fallout of the loudness wars

Tracks have been becoming louder and louder for years.

This is the ultimate end - big fat over compressed loud mess

[loopdon]

very interesting. I never would have focussed so much on compression. I think I've read too many magazine articles warning of over compressing things that I was too scared to do it enough.

I like what I'm hearing now though. once again great thread!!!

too much master compression is shit, but i use lots of compression on some parts and very little on others.
I usually only use a ratio of 1.3 or 1.7 on the master to keep plenty of dynamics, as i think it's the dynamics that make music interesting and give it life.

Far to much stuff coming out at the moment is really loud but got no life at all

that's a very nice atitude, dude. :boadj:

[loopdon]

i think it's going back gradually. it isn't actually louder for some reasons. and there's always the volume knob to adjust to taste.

generally speaking when i was in a club some months ago, i had the impression the kickdrums sounded very very samish. i dunno it must have had sth. to do with the club compression methinks. they sounded very 'attacky'. like nails. i had the impression that i wouldn't have mattered what the kick sounded to begin with. as they were all samified through the p.a. maybe that's down to 909 business. and some of the simple 909 open hats really pissed me off, somehow. why not take a different sound. use real sounds, i think, we should all experiment in using new drum sounds, ie. real drumsets or even better, a mixture of both, either via layering or by using a synthesized kick with a natural highat or sth. we could get experimental with the basics....


sorry for ranting, just imo :lol:

[danielmarshall]

My main quam with outboard anything is that I can't have a project file to save the settings. Like the idea (and sound) of allot of gear, but sometimes it's hard to replicate that sound you had a couple of days ago even with all the knob numbers written down. Not only that, but I feel that I loose my ideas very quickly (don't do drugs kids), so if I can't have things up and running in minutes I'm lost. That, and with digital technology being at the point is is, and only getting better I'll take the hit in sound quality for the usabilty/ flexibility tradeoff anyday. Mind you, some valve compressors/ distortion units still make me wet...

i find i'm much more creative with my outboard than with software.

If i apply software compression i usually go for standard compression settings, wheras with outboard i really mess around doing slightly crazy settings and often get really good results.

I've started really battering my compressors recently, getting the overload lights glowing, get such a lovely distortion. not that heavy like the distortion you get from a lot of plug-ins, just a really nice warm sound

I hear ya man. One of the things that's nice about outboard stuff is that the knobs are right there in front of you, making tweaking less labour and more leasure.

This is why a decent control surface is an absolute must for people who're into using software solutions, but an area that most people really skimp with because they feel a mouse can theoretically perform the exact same function. This is true of course, but it's so unintuitive. Some of the new MIDI interefaces that are coming out are breaching the divide between hardware and software very effectively. I wonder what new cool gadgets we'll see this year!

[Jay Pace]

why not take a different sound. use real sounds, i think, we should all experiment in using new drum sounds, ie. real drumsets or even better, a mixture of both, either via layering or by using a synthesized kick with a natural highat or sth. we could get experimental with the basics....

I've started doing that with all my drums and hats.
Mono analog kits layered on complementary stereo real world samples. The space and depth you get is amazing, especially with the highs. Layering a 909 ride with a real world 15 inch zildjan ride sounds damn good.

[loopdon]

why not take a different sound. use real sounds, i think, we should all experiment in using new drum sounds, ie. real drumsets or even better, a mixture of both, either via layering or by using a synthesized kick with a natural highat or sth. we could get experimental with the basics....

I've started doing that with all my drums and hats.
Mono analog kits layered on complementary stereo real world samples. The space and depth you get is amazing, especially with the highs. Layering a 909 ride with a real world 15 inch zildjan ride sounds damn good.

cool. that's what i meant. a nice way to get a shitload of real samples is using breaks from songs (some d'n'b breaks packages) and slicing them to get some nice perc sounds.

nice links:

http://www.producer-network.de/downl...ms-cymbals.zip (huge)

rexed breaks:

http://www.producer-network.de/downl...pack-rexed.zip

wav breaks:

http://www.producer-network.de/downl...breakspack.rar

[Jay Pace]

Cheers boss, will check these out when I gets home.

[loopdon]

there's more stuff on that page, just examples.

i can dig out far more if needed. generally: have a look at dogs on acid -the grid-

[Jay Pace]

I check their periodically. They post up some good samples, nice snappy snares and cymbals

[Jay Pace]

there their they're tharrrr.....

[Mindful]

thanks Jay.

One other thing. should I take the time to work on EQ before I compress or after? does it really matter?

I personaly try not to add any extra bass before compression(say on a kick drum for example)
So on somthing like a kick I will EQ(but not boost any bass freqs, compress and then boost the bass(then probably compress again)
If you use the Sonalksis compresser or Sony wave hammer you can limit wit the compression.
I tend not to limit drums ect unless its in an extreme way NIN style.