music is not ( supposed to be) free!!!!

[The Divide]

I use warezed software to make music (I'm coming clean), I do it for the love of it therefore I wont be loosing any sleep if anyone downloads my music. I’m in this game of the love of it and people hearing my music (and liking it lol) matters more. I totally disagree with those who believe the internet, the mp3s or anything else has stopped people from going out, caused clubs to close, the end of the word, etc, etc.

To be honest I think dj's who charge beyond £2,000 for a couple of hours on the decks are the real scene rapists, well more than some kids who file share.

*disappears to avoid angry mob*

P.S if I think some music is worth buying, I buy it. Same goes for software, I do plan on buy lots of the NI range when I am working full time

Im also a registered cubase user, paid 300 for v3.2 when I was 18. To have it updated to the current version would probably cost something around £200 hence why I have NO plans on buying SX

So sue me

[djshiva]

To be honest I think dj's who charge beyond £2,000 for a couple of hours on the decks are the real scene rapists, well more than some kids who file share.

*disappears to avoid angry mob*

:clap:

agree wholeheartedly.

and what kills me is that when the economy has gone south, there are still djs charging what they did a few years ago when things were hopping. THAT is really missing the boat.

here in the states, especially in the midwest, there is just NOT that kind of money to give to the djs, because there is not that big an audience. the hardcore people will come out for a good dj, but they still don't have the kind of money it takes to pay someone those kind of fees. and so many djs price themselves out of a good time because they are unwilling to budge on their fees. are you in it for the money or are you in it to make/play music and have a good time?

i always had a sliding fee scale. the less money people charged at the door, the less i charged. to me, that was a way to keep door prices low for the audiences.

me personally, i think the money mixed up with the music is what's killing everything. there's a topic for ya...discuss amongst yourselves. ;)

[dirty_bass]

I think the ridiculous fees some DJ`s charge is a whole other subject.
But in my opinion, it`s not helping the scene.
And things are finally small enough for it to be a scene again.

[The Divide]

Sounds good to me



Fair play if people wanna earn cash I don’t hold a grudge, but some people really take the piss

I actually do buy music, occasionally. Not much techno tho, I dont dj so I have no use for the singles or ep's. I do sometimes buy compilation CD's and occasionally I will buy the odd mp3 off beatport (what a site that is) out of respect for the tune. More oftern than not Im listening to MP3 dj mixes.

[Miromiric]

fernando for president.

[Barely Human]

****ing spot on dan.

[crime]

Well, at the end of the day, people are worth what promoters are willing to pay, and whilst not wanting to ruffle feathers here, complaining about how much certain djs get paid to me just stinks of bitterness, because I'm sure anyone here who was offered that kind of money, I'm sure they wouldn't turn it down.... (I don't get anywhere near that kind of money for a show BTW)
And @ Shiva: with the greatest respect, in regard to having no sympathy to the fact it is very tireing work to be playing every weekend, I'm sure you would see things differently if you lived that life for a few years.. it's very facile to just say "well if you don't like it, do something different", but if that's all you've ever done in your life since being 16 years old, and have no qualifications really to get another job, what are you going to do? I get mentally deranged sometimes from playing 2 nights a weekend for a month, travelling a lot, having bullshit from promoters trying to rip you off, dealing with the whole business side of things, not that I'm complaining because I made my bed, I'll lie in it, but it's difficult for me to "Just do something else", especially when you have already become established somewhat on the gigging scene..
It's also important to remember that the scene is different on mainland Europe to the US or even UK, where there IS the money to pay djs that kind of amount.. Big name DJs set their price, what a night's work is worth to them, and promoters pay it, if they didn't they wouldn't get so much, simple as.. so I don't really see how it's "Killing the scene", a lot of the time these big names do attract a lot of people to events, and if the DJs wern't taking these fees, it would just translate as more profits for the promotors... which they probably wouldn't have if they didn't have the big namess drawing a lot of people to their events... it isn't just parties attracting 50 or so people to clubs these days worldwide, in Holland for example there are parties attracting 5000+people, so I would say techno is hardly dead there...

[crime]

@ Shiva: You are right though in the sense of trying to charge the fee you would normally charge for a 1000 cap. club isn't going to work, but for a lot of DJs/acts, they have probably done their time playing small clubs years ago, and feel it's not worth their while doing it, maybe because they already did 5 gigs that month, and the travelling is too much in relation to the money, also the way gigging a lot eats into time in the studio... because I know from experience after a 6 gig month you don't want to be hearing any loud music...
as I say, people are worth what promoters are prepared to pay....

[module]

i'm sorry but..

how many times have u stolen the loops or samples for your trax & not payed up DAVE ??? did u pay for all those Bananarama snippets ???


sorry, this jus smacks of hipocrocy & bitterness.

[Miromiric]

;)

[Miromiric]

;)

[module]

truth is, ive heard from quite a number of established djs that there is noi money in vinyl releases anymore. they jus keep the dj/live shows coming in which is where real money is.

and ya know what ? i have NEVER playeda d'loaded tune & got payed for it.

every tune i played, i either bought or borrowed ot wrote myself. d'load quality is shite ;)

[crime]

i have a job i love with a non-profit, and while it would be lovely to make a living off music, i am not gonna slit my wrists if it never happens.

If you are happy with your job, seriously, count yourself lucky... because when music becomes too much like a job, it can really suck sometimes.... in many ways, I would much prefer to have a job I like and do the music for fun, but you know how you just kind of "fall into" these things sometimes.... :)

[mikehumphries]

welcome to the real world dave the drummer. where have you been for the last few years?
its not the only reason that vinyl sales have dropped off in recent years (ask the guys who run the shops where you buy your tunes about the numbers they sell these days), but it is a contributing factor.

i dont think many people realise how much (or little) money the artists make from the tunes that you buy in the shops
lets keep it simple here (to the nearest 50p) for those who dont know.
lets say you see a record in a shop and it cost around £7
that shop has bought it from a distributor for about £3.50
that distibutor has bought it from the label for £2
that label has also had to manufacture their product for about £1
so the label makes about £1 for each record sold
most labels do a 50% of profit deal with the artist
so the label and the artist will receive about 50p each for every unit sold.
vinyl does not do big numbers these days.(right across the board, techno, house, drum and bass etc) the sale are down by up to seventy percent.
in the good old days, the average label would do abouut 1000 copies of each release, so it has never really been a champagne and cocain life style for most of the underground artists. do the maths yourselves.
they are doing it because it is what they do and love, and when people do download their shit for free, they are really just making it even more difficult for that artist or label to come back with their next release.
maybe one day underground artists will be selling directly to their fans via digital d/ls from their sites and they will cut out all the middle men, provideing cheaper music for the fans who dig them and still be able to supply them with the tunes they dig.
anyway dave i think i've left the hoover on and my dealer should be here soon. hope this puts things into perspective for you download boys who never really gave it a second thought. if you wanna see another release from you favourite artist or label, maybe you should give them a bit more support. peace on earth

[TechMouse]

sorry to come up so angry about this earlier
but it really did my head in
and to top it off i was with a guy who had downloaded my trax
in spain this weekend, and he didn't seem to think it was wrong.
i really couldn't get into it with him
as he was playing for the guys i was working for and it would've got heated if i had.
the guy did apologise in the end after i kind of gave him a
" you are stealing my music " kind of look.
and he turned out to be nice enough
but the point is
how many other guys are doing it?
especially in countries where vinyl is dissapearing
and what can be done about it ?

I understand this is a massive problem in Spain.

I was talking to Tom from The Autobots, and apparently Breaks is really huge in Spain but they hardly get any vinyl there, so they tend to download a lot.

Even worse: You get people downloading DJ mixes, cutting out the track they like, re-editing an intro and outro and then burning it to a CD.

It's awful.

You can't knock the technology though, it's the cretins that abuse it.

I use P2P stuff / BitTorrent etc. for lots of perfectly legal things. Like downloading source code, sharing my music with others.

[module]

its all about the money innit ?

sad

[el salvador]

i guess people have to pay their bills and buy food and other things to that are essential in life. i did not realise before how little money that the guys who make this music are really making. i have did the math from the post above it it does appear that these guys are making the music because they love it. it must be so hard . respect to all of you music makers. i have thought before that you all have a lifestyle like the rockstars :blush: good luck to you all and keeps those tunes coming please. it is lighting up my student world :clap:

[crime]

so the label and the artist will receive about 50p each for every unit sold.

it's worth adding also that for a record to go into profit it really has to sell at least 5-600 copies.. so if it doesn't sell more than that neither label nor artist will get anything...

[TechMouse]

Just out of interest...

A record costs £7, and the record shop buys it from the distributor for £3.50?

Then why don't labels sell the records over the web for much less money?

I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason... but please do enlighten me.

[crime]

Just out of interest...

A record costs £7, and the record shop buys it from the distributor for £3.50?

Then why don't labels sell the records over the web for much less money?

I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason... but please do enlighten me.

If you want to buy records, what would you rather do, go to one place and buy all the records you want and pay postage and packing once or trawl around every record label's website to buy every record you want and have to pay postage on every single one? I know what the majority of people do (go to the shop or online store), and this is why you don't really get that happening so much... AND whilst it may look like record shops get one hell of a markup you have to also take into account the overheads they have e.g. cost of renting premisis and paying staff's wages.. record shops are also struggling to survive even when it can look like they have seemingly high profit margins....