music is not ( supposed to be) free!!!!

[dirty_bass]

Just out of interest...

A record costs £7, and the record shop buys it from the distributor for £3.50?

Then why don't labels sell the records over the web for much less money?

I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason... but please do enlighten me.

If you want to buy records, what would you rather do, go to one place and buy all the records you want and pay postage and packing once or trawl around every record label's website to buy every record you want and have to pay postage on every single one? I know what the majority of people do (go to the shop or online store), and this is why you don't really get that happening so much... AND whilst it may look like record shops get one hell of a markup you have to also take into account the overheads they have e.g. cost of renting premisis and paying staff's wages.. record shops are also struggling to survive even when it can look like they have seemingly high profit margins....

True, we`ve lost a hell of a lot of record shops in the UK this last year.
I just heard that Massive in oxford has now gone.

[TechMouse]

True, we`ve lost a hell of a lot of record shops in the UK this last year.
I just heard that Massive in oxford has now gone.

No!

Does that include the one in Birmingham?

I went there once a year or two ago, and it was one of the most pleasant record-buying experiences I've ever had. The guy was falling over himself to be helpful, and clearly really loved the music - knew his way round all the records, and was looking at what I'd picked out and suggesting other stuff. Very cool.

Kept meaning to go back and never did.

[mr burns]

yeah they have both gone bust, i thought it was a sucessful shop aswell, it was a big suprise when i heard this,

[SlavikSvensk]

many of the actual brick-and-mortar stores that remain (anywhere, really) are sad versions of their former selves as well...

[crime]

Hardwax and Friezeitglauben are definite exceptions to the rule here in Berlin, along with Syntax in Leipzig... it's not all doom and gloom...

[SlavikSvensk]

yeah, true, but a lot of my favorites in europe and the us are either gone or decimated...

[tOM B]

I use warezed software to make music (I'm coming clean)

I see cracked software a bit differently, i assume software companies have more money than most producers

As for high dj fees, as a promoter if we can't afford them i won't book them. Unfortunately if we don't have a low door price people will turn around and walk away and we use a low capacity club (300)

Any profit we make pays for the nights we lose money if there's any left it pays generator fees for parties in the summer (when the club is shut)

On rare occassions we have to put our hands in our pockets to help pay for events and after all the work and effort we put in this can be a bit heartbreaking (especially when you get people wingeing at you on the door about the price) i guess it's the same when people download your tunes for nowt :(

[SlavikSvensk]

I use warezed software to make music (I'm coming clean)

in some cases software is made by megacorporations, but in others it's done by small developers who make their enture living off of a handful of sales.

i'm not coming down on this as implacably opposed to all use of warez, but it's wrong to assume all software comes from big business...

[djshiva]

@ crime: i really do see the down sides of gigging. i may not gig as much as some, but boy do i have some horror stories myself.

i made a promise to myself a long time ago that if it was ever not fun anymore that i would walk away. that's me though. i think you can see my point that there are far worse things in the world one can do for money. really, it's a matter of perspective. and luckily for me i have other passions that keep me fairly balanced (hell, hours and hours on a plane just means more reading time to me...). :)

[tOM B]

I use warezed software to make music (I'm coming clean)

in some cases software is made by megacorporations, but in others it's done by small developers who make their enture living off of a handful of sales.

i'm not coming down on this as implacably opposed to all use of warez, but it's wrong to assume all software comes from big business...

in that case rip it off from the mega corps and buy it from the small folks

[crime]

i think you can see my point that there are far worse things in the world one can do for money.

Oh god yeah, i'm certainly glad I don't have to work shitty factory or call centre jobs anymore, and am more than happy that I had the oppotunity to leave the country where I was born and experience living in a different country with a different language, just as Mike Humphries said, it's not the "Champange and Cocaine" lifestyle that some people really seem to believe...
And you are right, if you are not enjoying it, you should get out, but that is not to say, even when you are enjoying it, you have a few shitty gigs and stressfull travelling experiences it can really put you offf for a while no matter how much your heart is into it.... I generally find though as much as I can bitch when I'm touring a lot, take a month off, and your raring to get back on the road... Off to Poland next week for 2 shows after a month off, so I'm raring to go right now ;)

[eyeswithoutaface]

i think quite simply if your naive enough to think your going to get into the scene for the money and charly, then you probably dont deserve to be getting your stuff out ahead of the genuine people anyway....

quite simply put, illegal downloads do take away from the labels and artists, but if anyone is solely relying on music, especially techno right now, as their only source of income, and actually moaning when they arent making as much as they should be, wether this is justified or not i.e illegal download of upcoming ep's etc etc, then they need to open their blinkers a little and maybe join the real world again, GET A PROPER JOB TOO! There must be a shed load of outlets and opportunities for someone with a good experience of music production and would only take a good bit of digging around to find something suitable.

Dont put all your egg's in one basket

[oldbugger]

i think quite simply if your naive enough to think your going to get into the scene for the money and charly, then you probably dont deserve to be getting your stuff out ahead of the genuine people anyway....

quite simply put, illegal downloads do take away from the labels and artists, but if anyone is solely relying on music, especially techno right now, as their only source of income, and actually moaning when they arent making as much as they should be, wether this is justified or not i.e illegal download of upcoming ep's etc etc, then they need to open their blinkers a little and maybe join the real world again, GET A PROPER JOB TOO! There must be a shed load of outlets and opportunities for someone with a good experience of music production and would only take a good bit of digging around to find something suitable.

Dont put all your egg's in one basket

or just dont pretend your not doing as well :lol:
obviously a techno thing :razz:

[dirty_bass]

Not everyone wants to work a sucky job, to be good at music, you need to have the time to commit to it.

I`m ok, I`m lucky to have found a job that allows me the hours I want, for good money, but it took ages to get something like that.

All these arguments are moot. The point is, it`s all just an attempt to justify theft. If you pay for ohter forms of entertainment, why should music not be paid for too.

[module]

Not everyone wants to work a sucky job, to be good at music, you need to have the time to commit to it.

I`m ok, I`m lucky to have found a job that allows me the hours I want, for good money, but it took ages to get something like that.

All these arguments are moot. The point is, it`s all just an attempt to justify theft. If you pay for ohter forms of entertainment, why should music not be paid for too.

bals db. henry is pissed at him having his music stile, yet how many ilegally used samples has he made money off during the years ? did he clear & pay rotalties for all of them ? i think not

and hes far from the only one.. not by a long shot. especially round here...

Crime, did you clear the Streethawk samples ?

[eyeswithoutaface]

well, i dont think ANYONE wants to work a sucky job, ive yet to come across anyone who really WANTS to work in a crummy shop like myself, it's a case of having too, and not being bitter about it, as that will only further antagonise yourself and ultimately end up getting yourself down, depressed, anxious for something else to be happening etc etc

i agree to having to have time to commit to music, that's soley why i went to a part time job last year. But of course as EVERYONE knows, living isnt free, and its about finding a balance. No one's denying that music shouldnt be paid for, i certainly am not i agree 100% that music is like any other product for sale, it should be legally purchased. I dont think anyone is trying to justify theft, any comments that do indicate that in this thread are clearly tongue in cheek, well certainly some are without having to point them out.

I'l never be without a normal job and i genuinely think that anyone who does exist within the scene who had any sense about them would have a regular job or a pretty solid sideline i.e decent temp work when they want it, as you never know whats around the next corner. Either that or ensure your dj/live schedule is seriously, solidly booked up, but of course even then that's not guarenteed until you've done the gig and the money is in your hand

[Jay Pace]

bals db. henry is pissed at him having his music stile, yet how many ilegally used samples has he made money off during the years ? did he clear & pay rotalties for all of them ? i think not

and hes far from the only one.. not by a long shot. especially round here...

Crime, did you clear the Streethawk samples ?

Look....

A lot of the time you don't even need clearance. Go bump up on copyright law. Snippits and clips are invariably exempt.

Can't be arsed to find the section - go do your own research if you are so keen to sling mud.

Henry is quite rightly pissed off that people are stealing his music before he has even had the chance to sell it.

The two cases are incomparable

Stop being an arse.

[SlavikSvensk]

i feel like we've had this conversation before...say maybe 8 or 9 times in the past couple years...?

[eyeswithoutaface]

yeah, i had a certain sense of deja-vu myself

[tOM B]

If you pay for ohter forms of entertainment, why should music not be paid for too.

i think that's the critical point ;)