Backwards to go forwards

[MARKEG]

I've been speaking to alot of the key techno artists recently and so many of them are going backwards to go forwards. It's like we're having to go back to the original ethos of techno, that original energy, to find something new. What do you guys think?

If ya check the Neil Landstrumm PA in our BOA Radio Show you'll see what I'm saying. This has quite literally blown me away and got that original energy back. Love it.

Whilst everyone is going one way, I think this might actually be the way forward, even though it's backward. Strange I know, but perhaps this is a reaction to the drive of technology.

Let me know your thoughts on this guys, would love to know.

[rhythmtech]

well every other musical "genre" seems to fold back on itslef to re-invent itself.. y shouldn't techno be any differant. we all go on about how its meant to be "new" and "future" but theres only so much we can do. harkin back to the past and putting a new slant on it IS creating something new but just in a differant context than is commonly acceptable within our scene.

i mean look at the reaction the new chris cowie track on intec got. a lot of people dissed it because of its old school flavour, but i've played it out, i've heard henry play it out and i've seen it rock dancefloors... whos right? the producers picking it apart on this board or the dancefloor... i know which one i'd put my money on.

[Col]

i think for techno to seriously move forward, it has to become something else. what i have learnt over the last 1-2 years is that techno doesnt really have much of a leg to stand on musically. that is a just a generalisation of course, i mean im not going to sit here and say all techno is absolute tripe, far from it. i guess the genre serves a purpose, and their are artists within the genre that try not to come up with same old shit, but right now their happen to be a lot of artists within other genre's making large advances musically.

i used to believe innovation was a large part of what techno is about...i couldnt have been more wrong. their are far more genres out there that blow techno away in an artistic sense.

perhaps techno does need to go back to its roots. its obviously not any good at pushing musical boundries. infact your right, techno needs to turn round and run.

[rhythmtech]

it all depends on what way or which "kind" of techno that you're talking about.

i generally stick techno into two camps:

1. "listening techno" - this is techno most people would find interesting to listen to but a few of us still find it great to dance to aswell. this is where a high % of the innovation takes place.

2. "dancefloor techno" - this is self explanatory really. techno aimed squarely at the dance floor. to innovate within this sub-genre is really really hard and needs to be done very carefully as we still need to keep dancefloor sensibilities in mind.

unfortunatly most of the listening public are only ever subjected to the second kind, which means that in our eyes (in light of public perception) we aren't progressing as a scene... but we are. i hear tracks everyday that make me sit up and listen. just today i heard a sample from "museum of skulls" by the divide and nearly cried because it was so good! thats what boundry pushing is all about. makin the nerds and the geeks sit up and listen.
but on the other hand i hear artists, who would be making tracks from the second camp, innovating aswell. for instance: the new hydraulix record is something dark and evil yet it will rock a dancefloor. dark tracks can be very very dodgy on a dancefloor and we've all seen them kill a mood BUT to make a dark track that kicks of is truely genius.. and genius innovates...

[mattboyslim]

the best ideas are slight twists on what has already been done. the majority of humans cannot handle something too far out and different. thats why those in the know, and those with a sense of experimentation and forward thinking (most techno geeks i guess) look at other genres/scenes and laugh as they seem to be so far behind, but its simply good business ethics. feeding new ideas in slowly and allowing the punters to get used to it

we all harp on about techno being an attitude and all that, but if we want it to survive we should start shaping it in a business sense. is anyone really gona sit there saying ''oh well at least i didn't sell my soul'' when techno is dead and buried?

[dirty_bass]

I dunno.
Looking backwards is what old people do when they run out of ideas.
All cosying up to the tea time of the past.

There are plenty of new peeps around doing new things.
Maybe the "key" techno artists aren`t the key anymore, and thats the problem, hype over musicality.

Ignor the names and listen to the music.
Who cares who made it, who cares what sub genre it is.

[eyeswithoutaface]

totally different thing to look back to the past for inspiration and doing a track like that awful Cowie nonsense on Intec. That's just ripping off old Dave Clarke "Archive 1" era, and also restraining the producer to fit into the label, because Cowie does some brilliant tracks that are nothing like that drivel on Intec

interesting idea overall, but i think a healthy balance of pushing forward and looking back to the past is still needed

[Stodgy]

Have to agree with Scott but I also really go with what Mark says, that old dancefloor energy is pure magic and (for me) the whole point in partying. But I think it's important to at least try and bring something new and unique to any music. So yeah, always respect your elders but leave your own mark on things to come!

[Jay Pace]

I have no problem going backwards for inspiration or style.
Happens in every other form of music - jazz, funk, rock, dub, reggae etc. Why the hell not techno? If I go see a ska band, should I lambast them for not pushing things forward into neo-ska?

If its good music its good music. If its tired and old and dull it will sound exactly that. I still find tracks that are ten years old that I've missed completely, and they still sound fresh as a daisy to my ears.

If you are always looking forward and trying to innovate you limit yourself. Looking back gives you more to draw upon. No-one's said you can't look forward and back, leftward and rightwards and always twirling.. twirling...

[FuK-NuT]

I dunno.
Looking backwards is what old people do when they run out of ideas.
All cosying up to the tea time of the past.

There are plenty of new peeps around doing new things.
Maybe the "key" techno artists aren`t the key anymore, and thats the problem, hype over musicality.

Ignor the names and listen to the music.
Who cares who made it, who cares what sub genre it is.

word....

[dirty_bass]

Well, most other types of electronic music (that I listen too) have really developed and gone into fresh areas.
Not by looking backwards, but by looking elsewhere.
Some hip hop, for example, has looked to techno for inspiration.
Some IDM has gone into jazz areas.
To develop techno, why look at the past of techno?
To me that`s just incest, and doesn`t contribute to evolution, it just recycles the genes and leads to defective children.
I think people should open their eyes and get out of the techno box, have a look around and see what else is out there, grab something inspiring and rewire it into techno.

[Mika]

Well, most other types of electronic music (that I listen too) have really developed and gone into fresh areas.
Not by looking backwards, but by looking elsewhere.
Some hip hop, for example, has looked to techno for inspiration.
Some IDM has gone into jazz areas.
To develop techno, why look at the past of techno?
To me that`s just incest, and doesn`t contribute to evolution, it just recycles the genes and leads to defective children.
I think people should open their eyes and get out of the techno box, have a look around and see what else is out there, grab something inspiring and rewire it into techno.

This is so ****ing true

[gunjack]

like i just said in another thread the whole "retro/90's" vibe that's going round is just dissapointing at best. a guy like ruskin for example makes boom hiss 909 stuff that smaks of effort to sound like 90's tresor releases when he probably has tons of unreleased, conceptual and deep stuff lying round...

the thing ppl fail to grasp is that timeless tracks go beyond that entire question, i have carl craig/BFC trax that are from 89/90 that sound as conceptual and amazing today as they did then. there are 90's tracks such as "the wipe" by teste that sound fresh still today because they did not rely on the typical 909's and pattern structures....


what i think mark is really talking bout is a recent trend toward the classic drum machine sounds and a 90's vibe. this CAN and sometimes DOES work well, but i am afraid folks take things too far (as is our nature as ppl) and get carried away.

[SlavikSvensk]

making retro techno is one thing. i'm fine with it, but don't see it as anything more than a niche. but i think mark is talking more about people going back to and trying to capture the energy and, well, naive innocence, you find in a lot of old records. that's how i read it at least. i'm all for it. i think techno is often too self-conscious nowadays.

[SlavikSvensk]

like i just said in another thread the whole "retro/90's" vibe that's going round is just dissapointing at best. a guy like ruskin for example makes boom hiss 909 stuff that smaks of effort to sound like 90's tresor releases when he probably has tons of unreleased, conceptual and deep stuff lying round...

the thing ppl fail to grasp is that timeless tracks go beyond that entire question, i have carl craig/BFC trax that are from 89/90 that sound as conceptual and amazing today as they did then. there are 90's tracks such as "the wipe" by teste that sound fresh still today because they did not rely on the typical 909's and pattern structures....


what i think mark is really talking bout is a recent trend toward the classic drum machine sounds and a 90's vibe. this CAN and sometimes DOES work well, but i am afraid folks take things too far (as is our nature as ppl) and get carried away.

yeah that sums it up nicely

[dirty_bass]

How can you capture innocense?
I think that`s nonsense. You are never innocent once you have exposed yourself to something.
It`s all just psychobabble for regurgitation.

[rhythmtech]

each to their own steve...

[SlavikSvensk]

How can you capture innocense?
I think that`s nonsense. You are never innocent once you have exposed yourself to something.
It`s all just psychobabble for regurgitation.

god db, don't be so literalist. aren't you supposed to be BOA's resident philosopher? ;)

let me spell out what i was saying more clearly: if people make "classic" sounding tracks that adhere to a formula, i.e. retro techno, then that doesn't really get why those old tracks were so good. it's still based on the idea that something needs a certain way for it to be "legitimate." like just using 909s and 808s because the old guys did. however, it's not just using a 909, but the way they were manipulated in the context of what was going on at the time, and that producers back then weren't asking themselves "is this detroit techno or is this belgian techno? are my kicks right?" so..."retro techno" might sound good at times, but to me it's of small interest.

my POINT was not "psychobabble for regurgitation," but to POINT OUT that techno has lost a certain amount of freedom, which IN THE CASE OF MANY CLASSICS, came in some part from naive innocence on the part of producers, who didn't quite understand the idea that there are or should be rules. my POINT was that i'm all for producers who want to free themselves from our neat, tidy subgenre fixation and reconnect with the freedom a lot of those classic tracks--and the best new tracks--exhibit. to me that's both going forwards AND going backwards.

[jon connor]

yes sir mark i agree dude its mental , i see everyone is going minimal abroad especially , i was in italy last week and the guys were telling me that minimal techno is massive there now its difficult to play hard techno there wots going on ? i see this is happening in other places aswell wow :roll: but its not so bad in sum ways hahahahah at least you can go back to ya trusty old collection and play sum stuff you couldent get away with many moons ago hahahahahahahaha but hey i think the world has done a complete u turn and re generating especially with electronik dance music phew! mad i no but we cant stop it just get on the train and enjoy the ride hehehehehe at the end of the day its all good all good ;)

[holotropik]

My collection of thoughts.....

To me this topic is currently relevent. I recently went back through all my old archive tracks from 1999-2002, sort of by accident and got a refreshed view on where I am now and what I was trying to do (I blame it on the last full-moon cycle). It was a real benefit to listen to what I was trying to achieve back then (ok, not all that long ago I guess) but what I noticed most was the energy of the music then when compared to now. It had much more and was much more abrasive and bold.

Since then I have continued to follow the vibe that seemed appropriate to the dance floor and the music is somewhat more sedate and demure. BPM has slowed and sounds a more rounded rather than slamming. But the vibe of society was like this too....more complacent and uninterested vibe, hence why we have techno that is more housey now.

There is now a vibe of anxiety creeping back into society as we become aware of issues that are pissing people off and making them frustrated. So wouldnt it be correct to say that the music they accept would be more in line with this vibe?? Something more angst ridden and a little more aggressive....

If you look at what rock music is going through now it seems to be doing the 'look backward in order to go forward' thing too.

I reckon that those who went from Techno into the more housey minimal side of things have simply crossed into another genre. Its not Techno that they are playing, its totally different music for totally different people and purpose. More and more each day it moves further into mainstream electronic based music and therefore becomes safer and more palatable to the masses. There is more vocal content and sounds borrowed from rock music. It become good business for this reason, for now, but it will paint itself into a corner as all styles do and morph into something else - but will always remain in the current mood and culture it has spawned.

Techno as we know it did go through a quiet patch, but, only because most people didnt want/need that sort of music during the fallout period post 1999/2000. This fallout period is where many Techno players/producers spent their time investigating other genres and forms and will now bring these ideas back into techno that is coming next. Part of this process may be to look back or revisit what was in order to help spark what is next. Some dont require looking in the rear-view mirror as they are speeding off into the road ahead of them and dont want to take their eyes of the road they have found.....its new....there could be a turn ahead or a pothole so it pays to keep the right foot mashed to the floor and take on whatever unknown twists and turns lay ahead....