**format wars** vinyl ? mp3 ? cd ? turntables ? ableton ?

[Honeey]

I really like the fact that there are more and more live sets now via Ableton live and other software. I think that is something that brings underground music and playing techno up to a whole new level.

But it just wouldn't be the same for me to not play techno with vinyl (live own music Ableton sets aside). The act of using the records, mixer, and turntables as tools...so real...you can see everything that is happening and one can have so much fun manipulating the big disc on the decks and flipping it around when you take it out of the sleeve :) I understand things are changing but I have always known vinyl....tried cds and yes it's ok but not even near the same. I always liked the fact that the underground records are so special and unique...cool sleeves and art or the stealth white label.

[mattboyslim]

why does it have to be about one medium? i occasionally use cds, but the majority of my digital stuff now goes into ableton. in here i mix entire tracks with my own loops and producitons, and cut up loops of others material. i apply filters, delays, reverb, side chain compression etc. this is all controlled via a midi controller, which has a knob assigned to tempo so i can mix this with vinyl

how is that a war?

[robin m]

I don't see why this is such an issue. Whatever someone chooses to use, if the end result sounds good - fair play to 'em.

It's a shame that record sales are falling and distributors & labels are going out of business but that's time moving on for ya, either you roll with the punches and look at new ways to make your quid or you quit it and get a job flipping burgers - the same goes for anything that's totally built on change and finding new ways to say bollocks to the status quo.

Personally I love my vinyl, as long as it's there I'll buy it as there's no way downloading an mp3 can compare with actually holding that lovely warped, scratched, heavy, awkward, archaic circle of yesterday's news in my hands - but I'm just into techno to enjoy myself and those stupid expensive records themselves are part of where I get my kicks.

I vote we just let nature take it's course, use whatever we personally choose to use and get back to talking about which tunes do the business whatever format you happen to be playing them in. ;)

[TechMouse]

One of the major pitfalls with ableton and controllers is the high latency tho. Does anyone know if this has been solved? I think with plenty of controllers an ableton set would probably be as interesting stage show as someone on the decks.

The high-end A&H mixers have latency issues too.

You sure as hell can't scratch with 'em.

[Jay Pace]

I invested in a laptop and final scratch because I had stopped buying music as it was too expensive. Now I buy loads, and lots of weirder things that I could never have afforded before.
If you only have £20/30 to spend each month you can end up playing it really safe with what you buy if you only buy vinyl.
Playing out I'll use a mix of vinyl and digital - had too many horrors with technology failing. Always good to have a backup plan...

Incidentally djing isnt the art of playing bits of plastic consecutively using turntables, its just the art of playing other people's music. Format has nothing to do with it.

[rhythmtech]

Incidentally djing isnt the art of playing bits of plastic consecutively using turntables, its just the art of playing other people's music. Format has nothing to do with it.

:clap:

[oldbugger]

Incidentally djing isnt the art of playing bits of plastic consecutively using turntables, its just the art of playing other people's music. Format has nothing to do with it.

:clap:

:clap: :clap:
exactly.

[robin m]

Incidentally djing isnt the art of playing bits of plastic consecutively using turntables, its just the art of playing other people's music. Format has nothing to do with it.

:clap:

:clap: :clap:
exactly.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Just thought I'd join in. :clown:

[oldbugger]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[The Divide]

Incidentally djing isnt the art of playing bits of plastic consecutively using turntables, its just the art of playing other people's music. Format has nothing to do with it.

:clap:

:clap: :clap:
exactly.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Just thought I'd join in. :clown:

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Dirtyacid]

Well as most Dj,s starting out I was the vinyl junkie but now with the digital era coming along Im moving on I,ve sold off the old set up & im now using 3 cdj,s & final scratch.
My reason for doing this most of all is it,s cheaper in the long run with your average tune costing between a £1 - £2 which mean,s I can buy more & they don,t clog up my room the same I personally think vinyl is on it,s last legs with all the technology of today but that,s me I also think with a cdj you can do some much more with the music looping etc I do still love to spin vinyl but im really into the technical side of dj,ing but at the end of the day each to their own & when it come,s down to it when your in a club doe,s it really matter what format the music is being played on as long as it,s good music I don,t care!!

[rhythmtech]

so thats that one sorted...


anyone up for a bit of analog vs. digital?

personally i'm a fence sitter here. i'm basically running a digital studion (vsti's etc) with 1 analog modelling synth (its as close as i can afford) and running all through an analog desk). but i wonder is digital really that differant these days. i mean look at the pro53. future music did a waveform comparison a while back and he results were about 99.5% similiar to the pro5, the only differance being the more rounded tops and bottoms of the pro5 waveform. but that was b4 the pro53 added the "analog2 knob, which, if i understand correctly, emulates the strange tuning mishaps of old synths.

anyone got any ideas?

[danki]

hhhhhmmmmm, i like it all, my problem is that with ableton, you end up staring at a screen instead of the crowd. having said that lumping wax around is a right pain in the arse

[lunatrick]

I played on a pair of cdj1000's for the first time on the weekend and was blown away by how quickly the conversion took - around 15 minutes and how much more precise they were.........instantly hooked. I wouldn't really want to do the ableton thing for djing as i don't see the point if you mainly play other peoples music....also I think running through a list of filenames isn't as easy as picking out the right cd. But anyway I'm converted...why don't all these labels just switch to selling cd? cheaper and easier I would have thought, plus you have the benefit of a much wider bag of tunes as I have hundreds of cd's which I wouldn't normally have access to when playing out.......

[rhythmtech]

I played on a pair of cdj1000's for the first time on the weekend and was blown away by how quickly the conversion took - around 15 minutes and how much more precise they were.........instantly hooked. I wouldn't really want to do the ableton thing for djing as i don't see the point if you mainly play other peoples music....also I think running through a list of filenames isn't as easy as picking out the right cd. But anyway I'm converted...why don't all these labels just switch to selling cd? cheaper and easier I would have thought, plus you have the benefit of a much wider bag of tunes as I have hundreds of cd's which I wouldn't normally have access to when playing out.......

i think labels really need to take a business approach and do some marketing into how muach of each format they could sell.

i would love to see labels keeping on a limited run of vinyl aswell as selling cd singles and digital formats.

[SlavikSvensk]

Incidentally djing isnt the art of playing bits of plastic consecutively using turntables, its just the art of playing other people's music. Format has nothing to do with it.

though, to be fair, it's traditionally the art of playing other people's music using vinyl records ;)

seriously though...i see this is whole debate as similar to the acoustic guitar/electric guitar debates from way back when. vinyl's dominance is almost certainly going to wane, though it will also remain important for DJing for a long time to come.

the interesting question, in my opinion, is: are DJs manipulating mp3s or other digital media bring something to the table that vinyl DJs don't already, or is it just a cheaper, smaller storage medium and that's it? and what's being lost in return?

[rhythmtech]

Incidentally djing isnt the art of playing bits of plastic consecutively using turntables, its just the art of playing other people's music. Format has nothing to do with it.

though, to be fair, it's traditionally the art of playing other people's music using vinyl records ;)

seriously though...i see this is whole debate as similar to the acoustic guitar/electric guitar debates from way back when. vinyl's dominance is almost certainly going to wane, though it will also remain important for DJing for a long time to come.

the interesting question, in my opinion, is: are DJs manipulating mp3s or other digital media bring something to the table that vinyl DJs don't already, or is it just a cheaper, smaller storage medium and that's it? and what's being lost in return?

i dont think we bring something "else" to the table.. i think we bring somethin "differant". cant say about the storage space or quality loss. i refuse to use mp3. wav only for me and if i'm givin an mp3 i'll always do a bit of work on it get it sounding that little bit brighter, add a bit of bite. then render as wav.

[SlavikSvensk]

i am asking if there is something substantively different that people feel they can bring by using mp3s, wavs or whatever, or if they are trying to achieve the same thing people do with vinyl, only in a cheaper and more space-economical way...and if there is, what that "something different" is...

in this case i'm talking about spinning, and excluding ableton sets, which are a whole 'nuther set of plusses and minuses

[rhythmtech]

i think the something differant is the ability to manipulate the tracks that you're playing on the fly. extend breakdowns etc. djs have been able to re-sample on certain mixers for quite a number of years now but the sample capacity was never that great. with ableton you can record in as you play and instantly have a 4 bar loop or a 32 bar loop. i also think the effects manipulation is a lot better with ableton and a controller. no using two knobs to scroll through params etc. i've played a set with the dex running through the input on ableton and using its effects and it was great. the only problem i had was beatmatching. i had to be constantly hands on with the vinyl, which was grand if i was bringing the vinyl into the mix but on the way out again (with full eq) i had to have a very very slight touch as it was much more obvious sounding..

[audioinjection]

i love vinyl and will most likely buy it till they stop making it......but of course i'll use cd's and mp3's, especially to be playing my own tracks