Lazy assed ableton Dj performances

[tekara]

LOL do people actually DJ with ableton as well? Man im REALLY out of the loop.

That is the funniest thing i have EVER heard. People should stop doing that shite.....

its like watching A-Trak, Invisible Skratch Picklez, or other turntabalist show up to a DMC battle and play a pre-recorded .wav file that is sequenced in ableton and just messing around with some 'autofiilters'........excellent!! :clap:

[The Divide]

Im never really that arsed with the dj/performer is doing, i rarely even look, im too busy enjoying the music and having a laugh. **** all that standing around trainspotting chin stroker business

I do look if theres some hardware involved tho

Im more interested whats coming out of the speakers, which I agree. It is better with 2 decks although a bit more limited

[davethedrummer]

ableton shmableton

[wenna]

when i picked up on djing years ago, it was a skill and it still is a skill now, true djing is a skill......... :techno:

[rhythmtech]

ableton shmableton

you're only sayin that cause you're old and afraid of new technology. if its not warm slippers you dont wanna know :lol:

[acidsaturation]

What annoys me is these Ableton DJ sets get billed as "live pa" when it`s hardly that.
Little effort goes into teh preparation or performance, and it tars the rep of people who do do it properly.

Totally. This is my Beef. Everytime I play I think "**** this, I'm not lugging any more ****ing flightcases about ever..." then when it's all set up and looking good and theres loads of stuff I can do with it it's just so satisfying.

When you can sound good with little effort (and remembering half the audience are gonna be caned out of their brains and not really bothered about whether the person playing is pushing their boundaries) it just spoils it for people who bother.

THat's a personal thing though, and I'm in now way saying "I'm better than you 'cos I use hardware and blah blah blah..." and like's been said there are loads of folk who use ableton or whatever creatively and really push it to make it something good.

But some remind me of what I was like when I first got hold of Acid. I was just "ok, why bother writing a loop 'cos I can just use this one, it's far easier..." and my music suffered.

I guess it's like any part of music though...

[holotropik]

What annoys me is these Ableton DJ sets get billed as "live pa" when it`s hardly that.
Little effort goes into teh preparation or performance, and it tars the rep of people who do do it properly.

Totally. This is my Beef. Everytime I play I think "**** this, I'm not lugging any more **** flightcases about ever..." then when it's all set up and looking good and theres loads of stuff I can do with it it's just so satisfying.

When you can sound good with little effort (and remembering half the audience are gonna be caned out of their brains and not really bothered about whether the person playing is pushing their boundaries) it just spoils it for people who bother.

THat's a personal thing though, and I'm in now way saying "I'm better than you 'cos I use hardware and blah blah blah..." and like's been said there are loads of folk who use ableton or whatever creatively and really push it to make it something good.

But some remind me of what I was like when I first got hold of Acid. I was just "ok, why bother writing a loop 'cos I can just use this one, it's far easier..." and my music suffered.

I guess it's like any part of music though...

Good wordz there. I have come to this same conclusion after thinkin about it all past day....

One thing you did mention that keeps coming up is the factor of muntedness on the dance-floor and how peeps dont really care much for the tunes an all. The just want something that is good to dance to and takes control of them or just something to dance to, anything?!

This control has to come from somewhere doesnt it? I mean if you just played a set that was just "hot" tracks in no specific order and just mixed them striaght up....would that be cool.....would that work on the floor?? Or would it not matter much at all and peeps would go off anyway because they are "hot" tracks.

What if you play good tunes that are not necessarily "hot" but they are put together in such a way that they seem stitched together as one track. There is good builds and breaks with purposeful emotional elements at the right time in order to bring the crowd to attention in some way and focus them all at one point in time and then let them go again...would that work better or is it purely unecessary now and more of a hedonistic self-centredness from the artist who is prolly too caught up in his own little world.

[dirty_bass]

Well, when you get onto the argument of, as long as it rocks, who cares.
Personally I have a bit of trouble with that. I have a hang up about effort, and artistry and integrity, and I`ve always loved techno for it`s stance against the mainstream.
I mean, what`s wrong with aguilera miming a whole live set for an hour and a half, it rocks the crowd right?
What would people think of radiohead if they just did a live gig to a dat, and just jumped around on stage?
I don`t think people would be impressed.
Sure it`s important to rock the crowd, but personally I feel better knowing that I actually had to work a bit to do it.
I think it has something to do with ego.

[RDR]

o.k.

I watched surgeon last night... he played with a fader fox, a doepfer pocket fader, and ableton.

Every single slot in the ableton window was filled, and what he did was amazing.

They were, for the most part, full warped tunes.

So where does that sit in this argument. A differentiation between ...

live sets that contain individual instruments, sequenced with Fx.

DJ sets that require no beatmatching, but do require some timing and FX


Are we better leaving the description of a Dj to run its natural course.. ableton or not... when the boundaries become blurred it becomes harder to see the limits of our own skills.

[Trip Head]

Loads of good points being made

In relation to DJing though, there's something about beatmatching which is integral to it. The fact that the tracks aren't perfectly in time just gives a sound to it which I love. And because the DJ is concentrating to get the tracks in time, it means they do the cuts and stuff more on impulse. Whereas if the tracks are already in time, the DJ is just a bit disassociated behind his laptop, and there's not that sense of urgency.

[rhythmtech]

it would seem to me, judging by reactions here, that some folk are more into the actual djing process than whats coming out of the speakers. fair enough.. can we all just drop this now because it's a really really negative arguement to be having... a lot of you have very reasonable opinions (i dont like it, djing is just what i like but live and let live) <<< this is a fair arguement and a valid opinion.. but putting others down and saying that they're "not real djs or performers"because they use ableton is not a nice way to go about things. so let me do what i do and i'll let you do what you do..

cause the arguement is pointless and is beginning to leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

[djshiva]

i think beatmatching is a skill that does give some urgency to what you are doing (as someone stated above). that said, i know a lot of talented producers that have never quite gotten the hang of it, but are still immensely creative people. or people who just need a change from how they have been djing for years. i think ableton gives people a new way to present music, and if used creatively, is friggin amazing.

sure there are always gonna be lazy bastards, but that's the case whether it's vinyl or not.

i do appreciate anyone who works hard to present their (and others) music in the most creative, floor rockin' way possible. and i think all of these things have their place. it shakes up the playing field a bit and allows for different concepts to play out, and i think it's healthy.

i will keep my turntables and my vinyl, because i do love the physicality of it, but i have been messing with ableton as a supplemental tool, and have found that it has many possibilities for augmenting what i normally do. so i am working on implementing ableton INTO vinyl sets, just to see what happens. i don't plan on going all laptop, but there ain't a damn thing wrong with bringing new elements in and challenging myself creatively.

i think the bottom line here is: is it being used creatively? is it being used to elevate the dj set and the crowd experience? is it pushing techno's boundaries?

as long as we keep those questions in our heads, i think we can push forward and still have it be enjoyable and boundary-pushing.

[RDR]

I really liked this last discussion.. very interesting.

[dirty_bass]

i think the bottom line here is: is it being used creatively? is it being used to elevate the dj set and the crowd experience? is it pushing techno's boundaries?

as long as we keep those questions in our heads, i think we can push forward and still have it be enjoyable and boundary-pushing.

That`s about it.
Whatever it is, do it creatively, and with passion.

[holotropik]

Rhythmtech,
I dont think we are being negative, just trying to understand where things are at....good healthy discussion. Not all bad, matey.

Shiva,
Great words and I think that is pretty much where we all stand right now. See what happens in a few years??

[rhythmtech]

Rhythmtech,
I dont think we are being negative, just trying to understand where things are at....good healthy discussion. Not all bad, matey.

its not everyone holo.. its just the same narrow minded idiots posting the same thing again and again. it pisses me off cause its what i do and i try do it well. then you have some mindless twat claiming that i'm not a real dj/performer? all i'll say is come to one of my gigs and try tell me that.. there would be slaps.

[RDR]

Rhythmtech,
I dont think we are being negative, just trying to understand where things are at....good healthy discussion. Not all bad, matey.

its not everyone holo.. its just the same narrow minded idiots posting the same thing again and again. it pisses me off cause its what i do and i try do it well. then you have some mindless twat claiming that i'm not a real dj/performer? all i'll say is come to one of my gigs and try tell me that.. there would be slaps.

I HOPE thats not comin in my direction.

And who claimed you're not doing things well? No body on this thread claimed you are not a DJ... only you can decide that.

This HAS been a good discussion, just because you dont like peoples opinion on it doesnt really give you the right to either call people.

Narrow minded... i havnt seen that...
Idiots... I dont think so.
Mindless????
Twats???

dude. stow that shit... you just made this thread even MORE negative.

[rhythmtech]

LOL do people actually DJ with ableton as well? Man im REALLY out of the loop.

That is the funniest thing i have EVER heard. People should stop doing that shite.....

its like watching A-Trak, Invisible Skratch Picklez, or other turntabalist show up to a DMC battle and play a pre-recorded .wav file that is sequenced in ableton and just messing around with some 'autofiilters'........excellent!! :clap:

dodgy.. quit gettin your knickers in a twist. this is what my comments were aimed at.. and a few similiar ones in the "format wars" thread...

[acidsaturation]

Well, when you get onto the argument of, as long as it rocks, who cares.
Personally I have a bit of trouble with that. I have a hang up about effort, and artistry and integrity, and I`ve always loved techno for it`s stance against the mainstream.

...

Sure it`s important to rock the crowd, but personally I feel better knowing that I actually had to work a bit to do it.
I think it has something to do with ego.

Sure, I reckon it has something to do with ego. Does for me when I'm behind the gear....

But It matters too when I'm the other side. I'd rather see someone struggle and glitch to so something special than do nothing 'cos it sounds tight. Though it's annoying for a moment at the time if I'm playing the social role of "munter"...

----

I think this is a good discussion too. Yeah it may be a bit "same old", but it's "same old" 'cos it's not been trashed out to the (probably impossible) conclusion....

[Dj-Richie-Parker]

We're all going to heaven anyway so whe heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy :lol: