Lazy assed ableton Dj performances

[RDR]

Seen a few of these in the last year...

NOT keen AT ALL... seen em from people who should know better too..

They sounded o.k. but watching em stood there with a mouse and a beer bottle in hand wasnt pretty.

Especially seen as they were advertised as a DJ.

discuss.

[RDR]

Just so as im not 100% negative on this i understand that most of the punters dont give a monkeys as long as they have a good time, and in all fairness most of the sets i heard were standard but good.

BUT IMHO thats the problem.. ableton is capable of SO much more, yet the majority of them just used the beat repeat and the filterz. no chopping up of loops etc...

:(

[dan the acid man]

i see your point, in that if you're using ableton, then you should do more with it than that.

but maybe these dj's just prefer mp3's now, and find ableton is the best for using them in a set, but they don't want to do to much with it, if that makes sense

[Miromiric]

They sounded o.k. but watching em stood there with a mouse and a beer bottle in hand wasnt pretty.

yeah, i agree. they should at least be dancing around, giving high-fives to the crowd.

[JamieBall]

I've never really seen anyone fully rock it on Ableton, and I've seen loads of folk use it. Sets done on it always seem (at the best) un-dynamic, flat and predictable imo.

There's definitely a lot more could be done with it to make an interesting set. Though maybe it just comes down to the fact that I don't like a lot of middle of the road techno so therefore don't enjoy it being repeated ad nauseum ?

[holotropik]

hmmm....I could see this coming.
There are arguments, as you mentioned dodgy, being "as long as it rocks who cares" being the most obvious. I dont agree with this as I go to see an artist perform his/her art and skill the way a musician should.

But, we are talking about DJs here and they go by a different set of rules than most musicians do anyway. Its a tricky topic to discuss for me as I dont like peeps who are not offering musicianship when they perform to people and expect more respect for just standing there delivering a basic juke-box type set. Piss poor effort in my books, but to many it seems it dont matter none....??

Again, I can hear some already sayin, "Man! move with the times, its the future, get over it".....etc, etc, etc.

Doesnt cut it for me, sorry. I wanna see skill and art, not a jukebox :|

[rhythmtech]

i agree with you dodgy. i think its shocking. it gives the rest of us that actually use ableton properly a bad name.
i've seen one or two djs use it properly but for every one of us that puts the effort it there's probably 5/6 that will use 2 channels and cut in and out between tracks. i really dont understand y... i mean you've got as many tracks as you want really, the only thing stopping you is the limitations placed on you by your controller.. basically its just laziness.

[JamieBall]

Again, I can hear some already sayin, "Man! move with the times, its the future, get over it".....etc, etc, etc.

Doesnt cut it for me, sorry. I wanna see skill and art, not a jukebox :|

Damn straight.

So, the 'future' is gonna be filled with geeks standing around looking like they'd rather be watching star trek (or perhaps doing more ketamine) whilst occasionally pressing a mouse button....

NOT ON MY WATCH !

[holotropik]

i agree with you dodgy. i think its shocking. it gives the rest of us that actually use ableton properly a bad name.
i've seen one or two djs use it properly but for every one of us that puts the effort it there's probably 5/6 that will use 2 channels and cut in and out between tracks. i really dont understand y... i mean you've got as many tracks as you want really, the only thing stopping you is the limitations placed on you by your controller.. basically its just laziness.

Lack of talent is also the problem.

[JamieBall]

Indeed, who really cares if it's just coming out of 1 output as long as it ROCKS.

I don't.

Promoters, just don't book noobs or geeks.

Problem solved ;-)

[fatcollective]

i just started playing with ableton and this is for only one reason...to play my own stuff out! im just trying to suss out a few things at the mo, other than just mixing one track into the next, cause that is pretty easy to do i must say. i think im gonna start strippping my tracks down in to seperate parts i.e. kick, hats, ride, synth, loops etc and maybe add some outboard filters n stuff...gonna get my head stuck into it anyway, see what happens.

[holotropik]

I guess its not really different than traditional DJing when you play one track after another....only the Beat matching has been removed which also removes one skill element, albeit a major skill of the DJ.
Whats left then? the ability to make remixes, crafty transitions (EFX) and intelligent track selection (something that is also somewhat lacking from a lot of DJs these days).

The positive element is that a producer can play his own stuff out that night rather than have to get it pressed onto vinyl. Although the CDJ has become common in clubs now for that purpose too.

I dunno?? I am going around in circles in my head now....PLAY IT DONT FAKE IT!! nuff..

[acidsaturation]

I saw a guy at a party last year, he'd basically just lined up 10 tracks (as finished wavs) on a laptop and had a controller doing a bit of stuff with the filter and a few effects - like you would with a kaos pad over a mix, but without the mix. I mean, since when was that even near ****ing live...

The trouble is it sounded so tight (obviously, as it was all produced mastered lines up to perfection) and I'm thinking, the average kid on the dancefloor who knows jack shit is gonna start expecting all live sets to be that perfect - I don't wanna sound like bad workman blaming his tools, and obviously I've no excuse to not strive for perfection when I play, but there's no way in hell that taking hardware out, experimenting, mixing different loops and shit is gonna sound that perfect. Like any live act - even the best rockstar (or big commercial live dance act) on the planet isn't gonna sound like the CDs and that's part of the fun of live music. Hell, even lab4 who are constantly slated for how "live" they are or sound do, in my mind sound like are playing something, even if last time I saw them they spent more time signing tickets than twiddling knobs...

Just DONT. It's lazy and it's lying 'cos it shows you have a lack of talent (or can't be bothered to use it), but you want the kudos of "playing live" at the expense of people who really do.

[Conan]

I think that a Dj's performance is far weaker on ableton than it is on turntables. When you see a Dj working away behind the decks while he makes decisons on timing, tricks or tune selection, you can feel their intensity and can get into the performance alot easier. The presence of the laptop just creates a barrier between the Dj and the crowd which makes it harder for people to connect with the Dj. Technology has a way of sucking people in and I think you can feel that when a Dj is palying on Ableton .

My point is I'm not going to jive off looking at the glare of some lads notebook on their face as they stare intensely at the screen. I dont like it at all and although I appreciate that perhaps they are trying to embrace technology and attempt to move things forward I feel they are removing the human element of Djing. Which is a terrible idea.

There are no mistakes on Ableton nor is there any rawness, that alone is a no no for me. People make mistakes and don't get things right from time to time and I want to feel that reality while watching a Dj. It also makes it alot nicer when a Dj does get it right. I feel it's alot more REAL on turntables.

I do know however that for artists that want to play their own tunes out and mix other peoples tunes this is a god send and you have to respect that. There's also an arguement for "just listen to what's coming out of the speakers" but that holds no water with me because then people wouldn't face towards the DJ booth and wouldn't have their focus on the Dj or the performer, and that isnt going to happen.

I think if Dj's can use new technology to their advantage then that is great but if the Dj is solely using computers then that's not gona work for me.

[rhythmtech]

I saw a guy at a party last year, he'd basically just lined up 10 tracks (as finished wavs) on a laptop and had a controller doing a bit of stuff with the filter and a few effects - like you would with a kaos pad over a mix, but without the mix. I mean, since when was that even near **** live...

The trouble is it sounded so tight (obviously, as it was all produced mastered lines up to perfection) and I'm thinking, the average kid on the dancefloor who knows jack shit is gonna start expecting all live sets to be that perfect - I don't wanna sound like bad workman blaming his tools, and obviously I've no excuse to not strive for perfection when I play, but there's no way in hell that taking hardware out, experimenting, mixing different loops and shit is gonna sound that perfect. Like any live act - even the best rockstar (or big commercial live dance act) on the planet isn't gonna sound like the CDs and that's part of the fun of live music. Hell, even lab4 who are constantly slated for how "live" they are or sound do, in my mind sound like are playing something, even if last time I saw them they spent more time signing tickets than twiddling knobs...

Just DONT. It's lazy and it's lying 'cos it shows you have a lack of talent (or can't be bothered to use it), but you want the kudos of "playing live" at the expense of people who really do.

that is if you advertise it as "live"..

but if you only claim to be djing then throwin tracks down aint really a problem, is it. the only differance is, as holotropik stated, the removal of beatmatching (which we should all be able to do at this stage anyway).

people are too hung up on the idea that you HAVE to be beatmatching to be a dj.. since when? is there a law? i personally dont give a monkeys how a dj goes about doin things as long as he does them right. i've seen lads throw in tracks from their mp3 player - cut straight from vinyl into the mp3, no mixing. so what, crowd loved it, he loved it cause the crowd were loving his track..

people are getting way too precious about this whole djing thing.. wtf? its meant to be fun. who are any of us to question someone elses methods because they're differant? is it really a crime to want to do things your own way?

just thinkin about it, i dont think our scene is really dead at all.. i think its starting to rot from the inside.

go out, enjoy the music, let the dj do what he does and take you some place else.....

[acidsaturation]

But how is it even DJing if there's stuff all being done... surely you might as well play a CD and have a wank behind the decks..?? I'm not hung up on the DJ idea, but I think you should be able to respond to the crowd??

[rhythmtech]

you can respond to the crowd.. i use it all the time and i've never had 1 single complaint..

you know the only people who really care about all this are other djs.. says a lot really.

[rhythmtech]

just a question... everyone says you cant respond to a crowd.

someone please explain this to me? do you all think that ableton sets are presequenced? i have a choice of over 300 tracks when i play a dj set from ableton... theres nothing presequenced about it.

[drudles]

The trouble is it sounded so tight (obviously, as it was all produced mastered lines up to perfection) and I'm thinking, the average kid on the dancefloor who knows jack shit is gonna start expecting all live sets to be that perfect - I don't wanna sound like bad workman blaming his tools, and obviously I've no excuse to not strive for perfection when I play, but there's no way in hell that taking hardware out, experimenting, mixing different loops and shit is gonna sound that perfect. Like any live act - even the best rockstar (or big commercial live dance act) on the planet isn't gonna sound like the CDs and that's part of the fun of live music.

I actually find when you hear little glitches in a live set, it makes it more exciting, as you KNOW it's LIVE, and gets you more into it. Like you say though, may not be the same for the average kid, but then maybe they'll learn...

The presence of the laptop just creates a barrier between the Dj and the crowd which makes it harder for people to connect with the Dj. Technology has a way of sucking people in and I think you can feel that when a Dj is palying on Ableton .

This can be true alright, it really doesn't feel the same, even though the sound can be superb...

Overall I think Ableton can be used to great effect, with some DJs really breaking into new territory with regards to a DJ set, but as has been said, most people who use are just lazy and want to do the same as any other DJ (if not less), without having the hassle of beatmatching. It's something I would like to try, but then I'm not exactly pushed to because mixing records is just so much fun!! :newstyle: :techno:

[rhythmtech]

drudles, you or the lads saw me down @ r3volution didnt u?
my midi controller had been swiped on me, i was using an old keyboard controller with limited functions and it still rocked. not 1 single person said "oh no... thats wrong. ableton is the bad man." keyth and rob were goin mental!!!

i just dont understand all this b/s from certain corners. to be honest it sounds like either jealousy at not catching the opertunity early enough or else anger at having spent so much on vinyl and then have others come along with their cheap files...

(that last comment not directed at u btw drudles)