Lazy assed ableton Dj performances

[robin m]

It's a good job we've got that sticky 'format wars' thread, otherwise we'd all be clogging up the forum with arguments about vinyl versus mp3s again ;)

Whether someone's using records or ableton, a set will always be more exciting if more effort is put in and flatter if it isn't (assuming the dj isn't trying to do stuff they're not good enough to pull off). If someone just presequences their stuff in ableton and stands there drinking a cuppa it'll come across to the dancefloor, but people can be just as lazy with vinyl - just mix the bare minimum over the very start and very end of tracks and stand there chatting to their mates the rest of the time... that's crap too.

A good DJ will always put in a lot of effort and react to the crowd and create a better atmosphere than one who doesn't whatever their medium, ableton just lowers the required amount of effort even further for someone who just wants to put in the bare minimum by removing the requirement to beatmatch.

[rhythmtech]

exacty.. now im bored of this and i never wanna read about it again.

[Conan]

i just dont understand all this b/s from certain corners. to be honest it sounds like either jealousy at not catching the opertunity early enough or else anger at having spent so much on vinyl and then have others come along with their cheap files...

It's not b/s it's just our opinion of Dj's using ableton while Djing. I really don't think it's jealousy either I mean that doesn't even make sense nor does us being angry. It's not a fashion trend I don't have to feel cutting edge to get value from the records that I own nor would I begrudge anybody else for buying cheaper tracks.
All I'm saying is that I don't feel that you get the same strenght from a performance by Dj on ableton than you do on turntables.

And if the music was good the people you were playing to would have loved it because the music was good and ultimatley that should be enough. But I feel the more human interaction is removed the less a performance resonates with me and thats my personal opinion not the letter of law.

I really don't agree with you saying the scene is rotting from within either I mean off course other Dj's are going to be more critical about other Dj's performances that's the way it is in all walks of life. All musicians I imagine would be the same.

I certainly don't mean to be attacking you because you use ableton Rhtyhmtech so there's no need to get so defensive I haven't heard you Djing yet so I'll save my opinions of your perfromances unitl I see them.

[Davin]

I think that a Dj's performance is far weaker on ableton than it is on turntables. When you see a Dj working away behind the decks while he makes decisons on timing, tricks or tune selection, you can feel their intensity and can get into the performance alot easier. The presence of the laptop just creates a barrier between the Dj and the crowd which makes it harder for people to connect with the Dj. Technology has a way of sucking people in and I think you can feel that when a Dj is palying on Ableton .

My point is I'm not going to jive off looking at the glare of some lads notebook on their face as they stare intensely at the screen. I dont like it at all and although I appreciate that perhaps they are trying to embrace technology and attempt to move things forward I feel they are removing the human element of Djing. Which is a terrible idea.

There are no mistakes on Ableton nor is there any rawness, that alone is a no no for me. People make mistakes and don't get things right from time to time and I want to feel that reality while watching a Dj. It also makes it alot nicer when a Dj does get it right. I feel it's alot more REAL on turntables.

I do know however that for artists that want to play their own tunes out and mix other peoples tunes this is a god send and you have to respect that. There's also an arguement for "just listen to what's coming out of the speakers" but that holds no water with me because then people wouldn't face towards the DJ booth and wouldn't have their focus on the Dj or the performer, and that isnt going to happen.

I think if Dj's can use new technology to their advantage then that is great but if the Dj is solely using computers then that's not gona work for me.

:clap:

I'd like to think that in the future I will be using 'Live' to perform my own productions as boring as it may be, however until that day I'm going to keep on trying to teach myself to integrate 'Live' into my dj set's!
Just like what Oliver Ho did when I seen him perform i Dublin!!
Throughout the night he kept interaction to the crowd as well as any dj would without a laptop, whilst still being able to give his set a little bit more than most other dj's!

Seemed like a winning formula :eyes:

[rhythmtech]

bah... you're all gay.

[Davin]

bah... you're all gay.

Ofcourse we ALL are :cheer:

[drudles]

drudles, you or the lads saw me down @ r3volution didnt u?
my midi controller had been swiped on me, i was using an old keyboard controller with limited functions and it still rocked. not 1 single person said "oh no... thats wrong. ableton is the bad man." keyth and rob were goin mental!!!

i just dont understand all this b/s from certain corners. to be honest it sounds like either jealousy at not catching the opertunity early enough or else anger at having spent so much on vinyl and then have others come along with their cheap files...

(that last comment not directed at u btw drudles)

Actually didn’t catch your set in the Vaults that night as I was over at the Surgeon (now he really USES Ableton to good effect) and Sims early in the night, and strolled down there later, but sure I was fallin round your gaf later on ;p

Don’t get me wrong, I have absolutely no problem with the use of Ableton and think it’s an extremely powerful tool, I can just see where Conan was coming from when he said that (from the punters point of view, I'd expect) it can be harder for the DJ to connect with the crowd from behind a laptop and controller than behind the decks, I don't know why, it just can be.

But nonetheless, I'm a firmly believe that what comes out of the speakers is what matters, end of. I don't go to a gig to drool over the DJ or watch how cool he looks. I go to listen to good music, hopefully played well, and have a good time, and that is ALL that matters. Nuff said.

[icb]

I think that a Dj's performance is far weaker on ableton than it is on turntables. When you see a Dj working away behind the decks while he makes decisons on timing, tricks or tune selection, you can feel their intensity and can get into the performance alot easier. The presence of the laptop just creates a barrier between the Dj and the crowd which makes it harder for people to connect with the Dj. Technology has a way of sucking people in and I think you can feel that when a Dj is palying on Ableton .

My point is I'm not going to jive off looking at the glare of some lads notebook on their face as they stare intensely at the screen. I dont like it at all and although I appreciate that perhaps they are trying to embrace technology and attempt to move things forward I feel they are removing the human element of Djing. Which is a terrible idea.

There are no mistakes on Ableton nor is there any rawness, that alone is a no no for me. People make mistakes and don't get things right from time to time and I want to feel that reality while watching a Dj. It also makes it alot nicer when a Dj does get it right. I feel it's alot more REAL on turntables.

I do know however that for artists that want to play their own tunes out and mix other peoples tunes this is a god send and you have to respect that. There's also an arguement for "just listen to what's coming out of the speakers" but that holds no water with me because then people wouldn't face towards the DJ booth and wouldn't have their focus on the Dj or the performer, and that isnt going to happen.

I think if Dj's can use new technology to their advantage then that is great but if the Dj is solely using computers then that's not gona work for me.

couldn`t agree more...

[acidsaturation]

just a question... everyone says you cant respond to a crowd.

someone please explain this to me? do you all think that ableton sets are presequenced? i have a choice of over 300 tracks when i play a dj set from ableton... theres nothing presequenced about it.

You missed my point there I think... I'm not talking about ableton sets where people are mixing tracks like a DJ or mixing sections or loops. That's using new technology to good effect (though if yr just mixing tracks I don't reckon that's live) and I'm all for it.

The point was this set i'm talking about, listening too it I was thinking wow, this is the best, tightest live set I've heard for ages, but when I saw what was actually on the laptop it was just 10 wavs, prearranged and all the guy was doing was playing with a few effects over the top. That ain't even djing imo, and can't really respond to anything, unless your thinking "oh, shall I send all this to a huge reverb now or not?"

The point I'm making is the technology's so open to abuse - it's not much more than miming!

[rhythmtech]

just a question... everyone says you cant respond to a crowd.

someone please explain this to me? do you all think that ableton sets are presequenced? i have a choice of over 300 tracks when i play a dj set from ableton... theres nothing presequenced about it.

You missed my point there I think... I'm not talking about ableton sets where people are mixing tracks like a DJ or mixing sections or loops. That's using new technology to good effect (though if yr just mixing tracks I don't reckon that's live) and I'm all for it.

The point was this set i'm talking about, listening too it I was thinking wow, this is the best, tightest live set I've heard for ages, but when I saw what was actually on the laptop it was just 10 wavs, prearranged and all the guy was doing was playing with a few effects over the top. That ain't even djing imo, and can't really respond to anything, unless your thinking "oh, shall I send all this to a huge reverb now or not?"

The point I'm making is the technology's so open to abuse - it's not much more than miming!

ok thats a little milly vanilli alright.. but thats how not to use it...

[dirty_bass]

What annoys me is these Ableton DJ sets get billed as "live pa" when it`s hardly that.
Little effort goes into teh preparation or performance, and it tars the rep of people who do do it properly.
When I play live, I`m running about 12 channels of audio plus vsti and fx, and sometimes, during a live pa, I get it wrong, cos I`m pushing myself.
It takes about a 2-3 weeks to prepare a pa which will only get played a couple of times.
It`s pretty annoying seeing these lazy plebs knocking a 2 track ableton mix together as a live performance, when I could tutor my girlfriend in ableton in a day, and get her to do more interesting 2 tracks sets than most of the ones I have heard.

If your gonna DJ with it, then I think as you have all that extra time from not having to beatmatch to work it.
Get loads of loop grooves, split down the full tracks used into sections so they can be resequnced etc.
Do some ****ing work.

[machina]

I have absolutely no problem with ableton sets - in fact I think they are ace - the amount that a talented musician can do with it is crazy and far surpasses anything that can be done on a couple of decks. The skill required is just a different type of skill - one of arrangement, construction, layering and the like, rather than beat matching, which let's face it, is hardly challenging. Look at what Surgeon or Luka does with ableton - it's clearly another level of musicianship and they are pushing the boundaries - hardly boring.

The people you are complaining about are just crap. it doesn't matter whether they are dj'ing or playing live or playing ableton sets - a crap set is a crap set.

machina

[stjohn]

when I could tutor my girlfriend in ableton in a day.

:) when telling my course panel that we'll be performing our short film live with audio and video, the audio using ableton, he said... 'my 7 year old could use ableton'
feckin eejit.


anyway, the case is for me, whether the act is billef as LIVE or not. ableton can be live. just more often than not....its just bog standard mixing.. tut tut. hopefully if i get some sort of a set together.. it'll be something along the lines of some hardware for particular sounds, along with a rake of loops ready to be fired in ableton

[holotropik]

I have absolutely no problem with ableton sets - in fact I think they are ace - the amount that a talented musician can do with it is crazy and far surpasses anything that can be done on a couple of decks. The skill required is just a different type of skill - one of arrangement, construction, layering and the like, rather than beat matching, which let's face it, is hardly challenging. Look at what Surgeon or Luka does with ableton - it's clearly another level of musicianship and they are pushing the boundaries - hardly boring.

The people you are complaining about are just crap. it doesn't matter whether they are dj'ing or playing live or playing ableton sets - a crap set is a crap set.

machina

yep, true is that....pushin boundaries.

[fatcollective]

I have absolutely no problem with ableton sets - in fact I think they are ace - the amount that a talented musician can do with it is crazy and far surpasses anything that can be done on a couple of decks. The skill required is just a different type of skill - one of arrangement, construction, layering and the like, rather than beat matching, which let's face it, is hardly challenging. Look at what Surgeon or Luka does with ableton - it's clearly another level of musicianship and they are pushing the boundaries - hardly boring.

The people you are complaining about are just crap. it doesn't matter whether they are dj'ing or playing live or playing ableton sets - a crap set is a crap set.

machina

spot on mate ;)

[The Divide]

I have absolutely no problem with ableton sets - in fact I think they are ace - the amount that a talented musician can do with it is crazy and far surpasses anything that can be done on a couple of decks. The skill required is just a different type of skill - one of arrangement, construction, layering and the like, rather than beat matching, which let's face it, is hardly challenging. Look at what Surgeon or Luka does with ableton - it's clearly another level of musicianship and they are pushing the boundaries - hardly boring.

The people you are complaining about are just crap. it doesn't matter whether they are dj'ing or playing live or playing ableton sets - a crap set is a crap set.

machina

I agree with this

Me personally, I think once ableton resolves the issues with the high controller latency it will go much further.

This kind of argument makes me think of what my old folks would say when I was a nipper. That been a DJ requires no skill, its just mixing other peoples music. Now we all know that’s wrong but you see why they say that, after coming from a generation where a live performance was played by bands you can see why they say this. I’m thinking this argument is no different. Both ways require skill (when done right) although ableton is much easier to simply pick up and use.

Me personally, if I had to choose between seeing a someone do a set on ableton or on the decks I would choose decks tho. But I think perhaps in 5-10 years time people may not have same opinion on it

I think associating laptop pa's with geeks could be risky business. Considering how cumputer literate the younger ones are. Shit having a myspace and msn account is just part of the norm for them now. I would hate to see this scene stuck in its way and alienating itself from new technology

"man my dad listens to techno music, but hes scared of technology and still uses those retarded turntable things"

Not my words but you see where I am coming from? :lol:

[holotropik]

hehehehe....indeed, sir. Good points.

[The Divide]

Could be bollocks like

[holotropik]

oh absolutely. I was just sayin this to me neighbours gardener...

[RDR]

What annoys me is these Ableton DJ sets get billed as "live pa" when it`s hardly that.
Little effort goes into teh preparation or performance, and it tars the rep of people who do do it properly.
When I play live, I`m running about 12 channels of audio plus vsti and fx, and sometimes, during a live pa, I get it wrong, cos I`m pushing myself.
It takes about a 2-3 weeks to prepare a pa which will only get played a couple of times.
It`s pretty annoying seeing these lazy plebs knocking a 2 track ableton mix together as a live performance, when I could tutor my girlfriend in ableton in a day, and get her to do more interesting 2 tracks sets than most of the ones I have heard.

If your gonna DJ with it, then I think as you have all that extra time from not having to beatmatch to work it.
Get loads of loop grooves, split down the full tracks used into sections so they can be resequnced etc.
Do some **** work.

F'kin A.

No excuse for lazyness as a performer.