Producer or Composer?

[dirty_bass]

I'm surprised that "hack" isn't an option. I think that most dance music producers are hacks, and I don't mean that in a derogatory or negative way at all...

very true.
in many ways a lot of dance music contains less thought and less originality than a lot of pop music, sadly, I would say a hell of a lot of techno falls into this.

[RDR]

I'm surprised that "hack" isn't an option. I think that most dance music producers are hacks, and I don't mean that in a derogatory or negative way at all...

very true.
in many ways a lot of dance music contains less thought and less originality than a lot of pop music, sadly, I would say a hell of a lot of techno falls into this.

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[dirty_bass]

No there is plenty of good stuff.
But techno sits in an odd position in electronic music.

It can be great when done creatively.
But also, anyone can literally make techno, just mash some percussive loops together, and wack a big kick under it.
It`s both a very complex and very simple music at the same time.

At least with some other dance music, unless you are using genre specific loops, you do have to make some effort with composition, like house or whatever.
Also production standards in techno as a whole I think are lower, overall than most genre`s.

Part of th edownside of the technology being so accessable.

[rounser]

Although I agree with you to a degree, dirty bass, allow me to play devil's advocate a bit, because I don't think it's quite that black and white:

Also production standards in techno as a whole I think are lower, overall than most genre`s.

Sturgeon's Law seems to apply to most genres though....if techno's production standards seem lower, that might be because less producers are making it than say house, and therefore there's a smaller pool of tunes with less gems in it.

At least with some other dance music, unless you are using genre specific loops, you do have to make some effort with composition, like house or whatever.

Heh....but with "literally anyone making it", that can often make things worse! Just like people get pissed off at a comedian who doesn't make them laugh, bad melodic or harmonic composition is going to get few to overlook it. There's a lot of amateur trance out there, for instance. Bad drums and you can just yawn and dance in a holding pattern and wish the DJ would play something interesting, but it's not necessarily going to drive you off the dancefloor.

[dirty_bass]

I don`t think sturgeons law applies really.
In terms of what`s getting released, techno has lower production values.
I think this is in part, down to the fact that
a) There`s less money involved now.
b) There`s more of a DIY attitude.

I`m not talking about good tunes, just production values.

Drum and bass also has a more rough and ready DIY approach, but the standards overall in what gets released are again a little higher, but I put this more down to the community around it.

Personally I have reached a bizarre position in regards to producing.
I was discussing this with someone the other day, who asked me, what do you think techno needs to do to progress?

And I thought about it, and essentially, I don`t think techno has progressed musically, for about 5 years now. You can still drop old tunes and they sound as fresh as the latest releases, so why buy new tunes?
I think it`s reached a kind of saturation point in it`s current form.

I`m not even sure it needs to progress now, it`s just a type of music that has grown and reached adult hood.
I kinda laugh when people still say "underground techno". I don`t think techno is underground any more, it`s not got the fresh edge, or any, kinda, street grittyness to it any more, it`s just an established form of abstract music.
Hell, the most underground uk techno peoples, the SUF, have all got married and had kids, done the big clubs with fergie et al.
Hardly undergound anymore ey?
Rock and roll, let`s have a voulevant

As a music that has reached adulthood, I think it is time for techno to have babies, and to birth new types of music, hybrids of itself and something else.

So myself, although I strive to go forward with techno, I`m starting to realise that I may be banging my head against a brick wall.
At it`s heart techno is dance music, for nightclubs, that provides people with a form of escapism from their daily grind.
To make the music more cerebral and more experimental, and to make the audience think more, may not be what they want, in that type of environment.

So now I just make techno for fun, it`s a form of dance music, no better or worse than trance or house or happy hardcore or whatever.

What I would really like to do however, is take the more progressive, experimental side of techno, and organise gigs, at live venues, rather than night clubs. where people expect to go to listen to music, rather than be made to dance.
How I am gonna do this, and who I`m gonna do it with, I have no idea yet.

[holotropik]

hmm...
me thinks the same way.
dont know where to go next?

[holotropik]

I guess the same could be said for Rock music
or Pop music too...
A lot of the stuff coming through these genres
is very similar and cyclical
regurgitating past eras with each generation.

With Techno I am finding that the music is slowly progressing
as new technology and techniques
improve the sound quality and expressive capabilities.

And as with most music
it has a lot more to do with the personality
of the artist behind the music
and how people relate to the persona
with little knowledge or regard to quality.

Its like,
some artists I like
most people say are crap or poor quality.
But I like the raw edge of the sound
and I like the persona that goes with it.
Sure I can hear that the music is gritty
and not perfect
But
thats what I like about it....

[RDR]

What I would really like to do however, is take the more progressive, experimental side of techno, and organise gigs, at live venues, rather than night clubs. where people expect to go to listen to music, rather than be made to dance

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[dirty_bass]

No, that`s not really what I`m talking about.

[RDR]

No, that`s not really what I`m talking about.

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[RDR]

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[RDR]

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[loopdon]

i sense some bad vibrations here :paranoid:

[dirty_bass]

? not from me.

In reference to the idm thing, yeah, they do have some non club gigs and it`s cool.
But the word idm, generally covers the breakcore derived stuff.
Horrible catchword.
There aren`t really any electronica gigs about, or not enough. And this is what I would be interested in doing.
Electronic concerts.

[RDR]

I have a short fuse sometimes.. nuff said.

[holotropik]

ahhh....dont worry about it dude
your not the only one.