The Means ? Or The Ends ?

**dan the acid man** · 30-06-2006, 07:24 PM

this spreads far and wide though, go and have a read of hifi magazines to see how serious people are about listening to nice sounding music

**jesus** · 30-06-2006, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by module

which is more important ?

the actual tune & groove ? or the split frequency of the high end ?

sick to the back teeth of ppl on high horses going on & on about f**king production..

If you're suggesting that prodcution is about 'split frequency of the high end' then id agree that the tune and groove are more important. What you said seems to be a mastering quibble however - which is afterall there job to polish something to stardom, so i'd say it's ok for them to debate which dither is better or 0.1db eq to increase etc. Techno producers usually say 'phatten your kick a bit more' or something similar which is a bit more relevant to a good techno tune dont you think?
For me production is alot more than frequency issues . Personally the quality of a tune goes hand in hand with how good the tune is.
Considering that all a computer producer does is produce then you'd think they should get good at there trade. Now some may agree some may not, at the end of the day everyone has there own criteria for what makes something good or more important. No-ones opinion is more correct than someone elses, just different.

**dirty_bass** · 30-06-2006, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by module

Originally Posted by dirty_bass

to be honest I think for the most part areas of taste should be avoided in critisism.
But a lot of people post just wanting a pat on the back, and when they don`t get it, get assy. Issues of taste are really irrelevent to all but the producer making the tune.
So it comes down to just commenting on the production itself, pointing out good areas is needed sure, as well as what could be improved, and then providing solutions.

If you can`t take critisism, then really you shouldn`t be posting your music up publicly.

And I don`t think I make smart ass comments to reply to Pete.
I`m exceedingly clinical in analysing the production side of a tune, if you take this as a personal attack, then really, that`s your insecurity, not mine.

dude.. seriously, its not about my stuff.. ive put up only one track in months now. and you actually said you quite liked it. most ppl did. and i wasnt expecting anyone to dig it tbh.

i'm not talking about me here. this isnt about my tunes. i havent done a thing since way last year.. the odd noodle, as was posted in the production files, but thats it.

i'm talking about the bigger picture. other ppl on other forums & how its almost a new culture.. this isnt a 'oh.. nobody likes my loops.. boo hoo' lol its jus a thought. but one i thought i could maybe get some new & fresh views on via BOA. i dont know why your coming at it the way you are. i hope this goes some way to explaning it further. seriously, this isnt an ego thing.. my ego was battered down along time ago via djing & partying too much.. i had my big fall waaay back believe me lol

and DB, it was jus a joke, not a dig. i dont mean ill.. was jus in jest.

Who says I was talking about you in anything but the part directed at you?

**dirty_bass** · 30-06-2006, 10:07 PM

Really, I don`t see the problem.
As soon as you place your music somewhere that people can pass comment, you are bound to get totally negative stuff at some point.
It`s just something you have to accept and it kinda comes as aprt and parcel to the internet in general.

You can always put your stuff online in places like myspace, and turn comments off, if you don`t want any.

I mean, I see the point of this thread, kinda.

People in general do comment on production a lot.
Maybe it`s because everybody has a PC and thinks they can produce, so there is a lot of shite about?
Maybe it`s because production knowledge is more easily accessed, so more people know what they are on about.
Maybe it`s because some people are just buggers.
Maybe it`s because techno has some kind of expectation of being more involved, more forward thinking, and so people have higher expectations.

I don`t know. I only think that to be taken seriously, you have to work on a professional level in any part of the music biz.

**module** · 01-07-2006, 02:27 PM

fair enough DB. if ya dont agree or even see my point, thats fine. its jus comment on the state of things today.

i aint been makin anything or posting much, so i been looking at it from a much more removed angle & what i see is a lot of uncalled for bitchiness. again, not jus on this forum, but on many. and i hear it in the pub when ppl mention a new ep on Electrotoxic or the like.

anyhoo, its jus what i see & doesnt make it the defining truth or any such.

**dirty_bass** · 01-07-2006, 04:20 PM

No, you are right, there is more bitchiness, if you want to call it that.
But what it boils down to is that people are more engaged in the music, have a deeper knowledge of it, and are more passionate about it.
So everyone is a critic.

I`m a qualified animator, and where most people would see somethin glike Toy Story and go "Wow the animation was amazing". I`d be all "yeah, it was ok, but there was a lot of short cuts, they repeated a lot of textures, blah blah". It`s not meant as a bitch, it`s more about a level of understanding.

**fatcollective** · 01-07-2006, 11:18 PM

too hi?....too low?.....the tune has to be a good tune to a good tune , who knows.... some people like certain styles, some people prefere other styles...if your not in to it dont bother slaggin it!!!! peace ;)

**module** · 02-07-2006, 01:20 AM

cool DB.

at the same time, there is a resource there that never was til the last clatter of years.. but i do feel there is a growing attitude of righteousness. and its not everyone, far from it. its a small % of forum users, but i do feel the nasty is growing.

one thing i done a lot was to state that things were very very rough first demo cuts. and that i was aware that levels were out, eq wasnt finished or kick needed work, but still some ppl (and no, not always here, on many other forums) would be quite harsh about the 'shitty bass line' or the 'gay synth' or 'embarassing hi hats' and theres been comments like 'the most boring shit i have ever heard.. give it up u wanker' lol its thos type of comments i see as useless..

i got my thick skin in bands & then djing before i even had a web connection.. as for the past of belfast i lived in AND being a metaller when i was young, ive got well used to abuse lol

the reason i put the thread up is because i KNOW ppl would disagree & maybe take it wrong & that it would spark such discussion. i aint posted a lot lately cos i aint had anything of worth to say, but i thought this might be a good topic.

and theres been some great posts :)

**loopdon** · 02-07-2006, 01:33 AM

i can't believe comments like the ones you described were given on this forum :)

i think i know what you mean! criticism is ok if it is constructive and in the end we all know there are and have been loads and loads of records put out that are a waste of vinyl when comparing to lots of the stuff in the production filez. for every loopy piece of shite i upload (kidding..) i could name 10 other records/tracks that don't any better :lol:

the standards are just pretty high i reckon and i think that's good but nobody has the write to call a synth 'gay' or whatever - it's a matter of taste in the end... if the highs are over the top - ok? but ' embarassing' - how much of an art is balancing/eqing the highs supposed to be? i wouldn't care about insults, mate - you should know better :techno:

**Jay Pace** · 02-07-2006, 01:38 AM

I have never seen comments like that on this board.

If there were I don't think I'd bother posting here.

Its friendly. Harsh at times, but always in a constructive way.

**module** · 02-07-2006, 01:53 AM

theres been the odd comment i would calss as nasty, and it wasnt even my file. like ive said, i see it happening on many forums, not jus here. BOA is prob least guilty of the forums i frequent, and there are very very few nasty rips. think thats maybe the prob with this, i didnt state/ppl assmed it was aimed at BOA & no one else.

ive even heard ppl (friends) sitting in pubs over a beer really rippin on stuff.. ive done it myself.. but usually towards Aphex/Squarepusher fanboys lol but that dont make it right..

it jus seems to me to be a growing culture as the tools are put into more hands via free/stolen s'ware & file sharing via the net.. could be the anonimity of web life that lets ppl be that bit more outspoken with their replies.. i dont know.

i guess its a lot to do with personal ethic/code thing.. ya know, some ppl are big into classing music, others are vinyl purists, some wont play over 135 bpm.. ya know, all types take their whole perspetctive on music different ways.

and what one guy may see as harsh, another may see as kind.. or vice versa.

i do still think its a point.. no matter how small the number or % of it thats happeing, ive never heard so many ppl give opinion on production over the actual musicallity than i have the last while back.

then again, with my backing off production & djing & playing out due to gettin married, maybe ive become detached & more subjective ? who knows.. but i reckon its an alright yarn :)

**dirty_bass** · 02-07-2006, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by module

i do still think its a point.. no matter how small the number or % of it thats happeing, ive never heard so many ppl give opinion on production over the actual musicallity than i have the last while back.

Well, in my opinion, that`s because a lot of techno is seriously lacking in musicality.
Bang some uberschall loops together, crappy rap vocal, a few filter sweeps, cliche offbeat rumble, het presto, more Celery techno.

I think some of it needs to be cut down. For an "underground" music, things seem to have got awefully similar to the pop industry.

**module** · 02-07-2006, 02:43 AM

again, youve misunderstood me or i havent explained fully.. it aint jus techno. i see it all forms of music.

but i do follow you on the 'techno by numbers' blueprint.. there is a formula. like the thing amok said with the 'prepare to die' samples.. ive done it myself. i guess everybody has made that kinda indentikit music at some point, and tbh, i dont think thats bad thing. a quick stage with a style to understand how to make it or use elemnts from it. at the same time, punting the same sound for 5 years of 68 records does show a certain.. limit or apathy.

**dirty_bass** · 02-07-2006, 02:52 AM

I dunno, I frequent a few other boards of different music.
Hip hop, drum and bass, dubstep, minimal, and I don`t see it so much.
I see critique, but people seem to be less prone to throwing their toys out the pram when critised in my experience.
They tend to understand critisism more and take it on board.

As for just plain slagging, yeah there`s loads of that.
Trance people slag house.
Dubstep slag jump up.
Drum and bass slag house.
Techno people slag trance.
etc

basic tribalism.
no more or less pathetic than people arguing over teams of men kicking a bag of wind around a large grassy area.

**module** · 02-07-2006, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by dirty_bass

basic tribalism.
no more or less pathetic than people arguing over teams of men kicking a bag of wind around a large grassy area.