Quote Originally Posted by crime
Quote Originally Posted by dirty_bass
Tune comes first, then the natural process is to produce it.
I don`t understand the black and white opinions you are spouting mark.
You can have both.
If I`m making a tune that does nothing for me, I bin it, I never go through the motions of polishing it just for the sake of it.
Admittedly, with techno these days, there is a lot of, grab some loops, bash em together, polish em up, compress it all so it`s real LOUD, press the ****.

It`s the loudness that a lot of people respond to. Horrible.
Fair enough, but what you were saying yourself was pretty black and white don't you think? and I don't quite get how it could be used as an excuse, if I hear a track and I think it's shit, I'm still going to think it's shit even if the producer says "yeah, but it's supposed to sound like that, it's raw production values", sometimes raw works, sometimes it doesn't.. the record buying public will vote with their wallet anyway, and that's if it makes it that far..

as for compressing the hell out of something making something sound good, that goes to show the lack of any kind of dynamics or musicality. bottom line is a good tune is a good tune whether it has the high production values or not, and I completely agree that high production values can really make a good tune sparkle, but as sunil was saying, there are some absolute classics out there that don't have the high production values..
I agree with you.

but what I`m saying is, high production values and good production values are different things.

I still say most of the old "Raw" stuff was still well produced.
It was raw and unpolished as such, but there was still basic good production going on. not high production values, but good production.

Even the early beltram era stuff, recorded straight to 8 track etc, was then mastered to an extent, but back then people kinda did it the old skool way.
you used an engineer etc.

Nowadays, people get a few plugins, spend a year banging loops together, and think they don`t need to learn any more, hence the steady slip into amateurism that techno has suffered from.

Sure, we don`t need to argue over wether turds can be polished, and that the tune itself is paramount to the production.

but holding some kind of ehtic of professionalism and improvement in a world where any chimp with a pc can make music is surely a good thing right?