The Means ? Or The Ends ?

[DannyBlack]

which is more important ?

the actual tune & groove ? or the split frequency of the high end ?

sick to the back teeth of ppl on high horses going on & on about f**king production..

WHO F**KING CARES ????

ppl need to let go of the means & become interested in the ends..

screw pcs.. give everyone a 909 & S2000 see who can cook up a good tune..

can we please get back to makin summat to dance to & forget about who has the most vsti's please ?

Amen, it's all abt the laugh and the craic. f*ck these high horse techno geeks (you know who the f*ck you are, cunts).

Production is important tho' it aint everything.

[crime]

Tune comes first, then the natural process is to produce it.
I don`t understand the black and white opinions you are spouting mark.
You can have both.
If I`m making a tune that does nothing for me, I bin it, I never go through the motions of polishing it just for the sake of it.
Admittedly, with techno these days, there is a lot of, grab some loops, bash em together, polish em up, compress it all so it`s real LOUD, press the ****.

It`s the loudness that a lot of people respond to. Horrible.

Fair enough, but what you were saying yourself was pretty black and white don't you think? and I don't quite get how it could be used as an excuse, if I hear a track and I think it's shit, I'm still going to think it's shit even if the producer says "yeah, but it's supposed to sound like that, it's raw production values", sometimes raw works, sometimes it doesn't.. the record buying public will vote with their wallet anyway, and that's if it makes it that far..

as for compressing the hell out of something making something sound good, that goes to show the lack of any kind of dynamics or musicality. bottom line is a good tune is a good tune whether it has the high production values or not, and I completely agree that high production values can really make a good tune sparkle, but as sunil was saying, there are some absolute classics out there that don't have the high production values..

[crime]

funny how I can type shit but not **** eh?

[DannyBlack]

Tune comes first, then the natural process is to produce it.
I don`t understand the black and white opinions you are spouting mark.
You can have both.
If I`m making a tune that does nothing for me, I bin it, I never go through the motions of polishing it just for the sake of it.
Admittedly, with techno these days, there is a lot of, grab some loops, bash em together, polish em up, compress it all so it`s real LOUD, press the ****.

It`s the loudness that a lot of people respond to. Horrible.

Fair enough, but what you were saying yourself was pretty black and white don't you think? and I don't quite get how it could be used as an excuse, if I hear a track and I think it's shit, I'm still going to think it's shit even if the producer says "yeah, but it's supposed to sound like that, it's raw production values", sometimes raw works, sometimes it doesn't.. the record buying public will vote with their wallet anyway, and that's if it makes it that far..

as for compressing the hell out of something making something sound good, that goes to show the lack of any kind of dynamics or musicality. bottom line is a good tune is a good tune whether it has the high production values or not, and I completely agree that high production values can really make a good tune sparkle, but as sunil was saying, there are some absolute classics out there that don't have the high production values..

:clap: well said.

good is good. there are always gonna be naigh sayers, the type of prat who stands in front of the DJ al night just watching everything he does and at the after session sits there quoting every mistake he made...

good few of 'em lurking around here.

[Stella Boy]

you can polish a turd all day but it will always be a turd

[DannyBlack]

yeah, true. but at least it will shine. nothing worse than a dull turd.

[dirty_bass]

Tune comes first, then the natural process is to produce it.
I don`t understand the black and white opinions you are spouting mark.
You can have both.
If I`m making a tune that does nothing for me, I bin it, I never go through the motions of polishing it just for the sake of it.
Admittedly, with techno these days, there is a lot of, grab some loops, bash em together, polish em up, compress it all so it`s real LOUD, press the ****.

It`s the loudness that a lot of people respond to. Horrible.

Fair enough, but what you were saying yourself was pretty black and white don't you think? and I don't quite get how it could be used as an excuse, if I hear a track and I think it's shit, I'm still going to think it's shit even if the producer says "yeah, but it's supposed to sound like that, it's raw production values", sometimes raw works, sometimes it doesn't.. the record buying public will vote with their wallet anyway, and that's if it makes it that far..

as for compressing the hell out of something making something sound good, that goes to show the lack of any kind of dynamics or musicality. bottom line is a good tune is a good tune whether it has the high production values or not, and I completely agree that high production values can really make a good tune sparkle, but as sunil was saying, there are some absolute classics out there that don't have the high production values..

I agree with you.

but what I`m saying is, high production values and good production values are different things.

I still say most of the old "Raw" stuff was still well produced.
It was raw and unpolished as such, but there was still basic good production going on. not high production values, but good production.

Even the early beltram era stuff, recorded straight to 8 track etc, was then mastered to an extent, but back then people kinda did it the old skool way.
you used an engineer etc.

Nowadays, people get a few plugins, spend a year banging loops together, and think they don`t need to learn any more, hence the steady slip into amateurism that techno has suffered from.

Sure, we don`t need to argue over wether turds can be polished, and that the tune itself is paramount to the production.

but holding some kind of ehtic of professionalism and improvement in a world where any chimp with a pc can make music is surely a good thing right?

[Sunil]

but holding some kind of ehtic of professionalism and improvement in a world where any chimp with a pc can make music is surely a good thing right?

Yeah true, you're right... but aside from this, a good tune (regardless of being expertly polished or not) should tend to just shine through. I think part of the problem though is the lack of adventure on a lot of labels' parts, and indeed the desire to seek out new talent. If a new producer has made a good tune then they should be encouraged to get their music out there and not feel they will be snubbed by a label for not having great mastering. Maybe also the bigger guys and labels aren't in a position to nurture new talent as much these days? These days many people are not getting it their music out there because they think it's not "sounding right" or polished enough yet.

You mentioned earler Steve about people saying "Yeah, but it's a great tune" even if the production wasn't too polished... to be honest I hear the opposite a lot more i.e "Yeah, it's alright, but the production is great"... and *that's* the difference in where a record is bought or skipped these days.

Ok, we all know that a lot of bad stuff makes it to vinyl, and there needs to be a control... but I genuinely feel this is only the smaller picture and that the bigger issue in the hands of the guys who are in a position to be regularly putting out records and who might have a name... and a lot of them (while sounding polished) simply aren't delivering. This is the bigger problem.

[The Overfiend]

but holding some kind of ehtic of professionalism and improvement in a world where any chimp with a pc can make music is surely a good thing right?

Yeah true, you're right... but aside from this, a good tune (regardless of being expertly polished or not) should tend to just shine through. I think part of the problem though is the lack of adventure on a lot of labels' parts, and indeed the desire to seek out new talent. If a new producer has made a good tune then they should be encouraged to get their music out there and not feel they will be snubbed by a label for not having great mastering. Maybe also the bigger guys and labels aren't in a position to nurture new talent as much these days? These days many people are not getting it their music out there because they think it's not "sounding right" or polished enough yet.

You mentioned earler Steve about people saying "Yeah, but it's a great tune" even if the production wasn't too polished... to be honest I hear the opposite a lot more i.e "Yeah, it's alright, but the production is great"... and *that's* the difference in where a record is bought or skipped these days.

Ok, we all know that a lot of bad stuff makes it to vinyl, and there needs to be a control... but I genuinely feel this is only the smaller picture and that the bigger issue in the hands of the guys who are in a position to be regularly putting out records and who might have a name... and a lot of them (while sounding polished) simply aren't delivering. This is the bigger problem.

WHAMMY!!!!!!!!!!!

[dirty_bass]

Well, the problem here lies in the state of the industry.
Labels (even so called "bigger" ones are reluctant to take risks on different music, and new producers, due to the downright shakey climate in the industry.
Distributers are also reluctant to even consider carrying new names or newer fresh music because it isn`t tried and tested.
So there`s this loop of samey-ness and playing safe, that is exactly the reason the pop industry is the way it is.

and until digital distribution takes over, I can only see this getting worse, especially after some news I`ve been told about the state of play.

[Sunil]

especially after some news I`ve been told about the state of play.

Which is?

[TechMouse]

funny how I can type shit but not **** eh?

That's ****ed up.

[dan the acid man]

funny how I can type shit but not **** eh?

That's ****ed up.

nobody likes a ****ing show off :cheese:

[Jay Pace]

Athough I'm a bit partial to a show of ****ing... :eyes:

[dan the acid man]

haha :lol:

[TechMouse]

I heard some people like to **** the odd show off.