Mixing in Key

[loopdon]

didn't worry about this to much for a long time or did it unconsciously.

but now this can really piss me right off. i truly can't believe some many 'big-name'-djs seemingly don't give a **** about this. how tone-def can one be after 20 years of dj-ing solid i wonder at times???

i hear loads of stuff crashing now that i have become more aware. harmonic mixing all the way!

[TechMouse]

"In-key" is quite vague.

You can be properly in key (as in the same exact key) but then there's complementary keys (different keys which work together)...

Music Theory is absolutely insane.

Ultimately though, your ears are the best measure.

(Like the Ed Byrne joke... "What the feck do I need bathroom scales for? I've got a mirror...")

[BloodStar]

I am mainly mixing by ear. I think it is just up to your personal feelings for the music if you can mix in key just by ears.
Yes, it is pretty good to know a bit of theory, but I wouldn't go too deeep into it and would just stick with what record sounds good with other record. Works well for me...

[dirty_bass]

well, it`ll never fully be in key, because as your pitches will never be exact for each tune etc.
But I`m just being pedantic.

For techno I think mixing OUT of key is more appropriate.
Or mixing within more interesting scales than the chromatic.
When sounds grate against each other it is interesting and creates lovely physical reactions.

It`s ok for your girly trancey heads, all this in key stuff, but for techno, bah humbug.

[JimmySomerville]

I'm thinking on buying this...

http://xone.mixedinkey.com/Homepage.aspx

Allen & heath recently bought up the rights for it...

I'm thinking it will help me a fair bit in using ableton giving an indication of what will work well toghether.

[Siege]

The pioneer djm800 has sound "colour" feature on every track for harmonic mixing.Tune your tracks in key even when there not originally.....id go for this over the allen & heath if thats what your after...allen & heath probably pips it for sound quality but the pioneer has heaps more features.

[Siege]

Just looked at the link and realised its software..thought it was a mixer theyd brought out.

[JimmySomerville]

The pioneer djm800 has sound "colour" feature on every track for harmonic mixing.Tune your tracks in key even when there not originally.....id go for this over the allen & heath if thats what your after...allen & heath probably pips it for sound quality but the pioneer has heaps more features.

The allen&Heath thing is just a program which will key all of the music on your pc, basically letting you know what key all of your tracks are in. You will then easily be able to tell what will go.

It's only £30 compared to buying £1000 djm 800 mixer!

[TechMouse]

I'm thinking on buying this...

http://xone.mixedinkey.com/Homepage.aspx

Allen & heath recently bought up the rights for it...

I'm thinking it will help me a fair bit in using ableton giving an indication of what will work well toghether.

My understanding was you can pitchshift stuff in Ableton anyway.

Mixing in key should be child's play.

[RDR]

well, it`ll never fully be in key, because as your pitches will never be exact for each tune etc.
But I`m just being pedantic.

For techno I think mixing OUT of key is more appropriate.
Or mixing within more interesting scales than the chromatic.
When sounds grate against each other it is interesting and creates lovely physical reactions.

It`s ok for your girly trancey heads, all this in key stuff, but for techno, bah humbug.

Couldnt agree more. And besides, music that sticks rigidly to a key leads to a certain kind of boredom... (This doesnt mean im anygood at it in my own production BTW.. im still learning..)

And as EVER IMO

[stjohn]

For techno I think mixing OUT of key is more appropriate.
Or mixing within more interesting scales than the chromatic.
When sounds grate against each other it is interesting and creates lovely physical reactions.

It`s ok for your girly trancey heads, all this in key stuff, but for techno, bah humbug.

this was my argument.... what constitutes dissonance? and why cant it be dissonant in the weird and warped sense.... but yes they are playing trancey minimal stuff.

if it sounds good go for it......thats what i say...

all this organisation kills any spontanaeity...i like to bring a bag of my fav tunes, and not really have any idea what way im going to play them....

[Aratron]

i owuld like to know which of my tunes are which key or wot on earth all this key stuff is anyway

[theledge]

this was my argument.... what constitutes dissonance? and why cant it be dissonant in the weird and warped sense.... but yes they are playing trancey minimal stuff.

if it sounds good go for it......thats what i say...

all this organisation kills any spontanaeity...i like to bring a bag of my fav tunes, and not really have any idea what way im going to play them....

yeah that sounds about right to me , if you know your records really well then you could do it all by ear

I suppose if you have loads of new records every week (chance would be afine thing for me ) it could be a different story....

[MARK ANXIOUS]

all this organisation kills any spontanaeity...i like to bring a bag of my fav tunes, and not really have any idea what way im going to play them....

i actually strongly disagree with this statement (no offence though mate hehe!!!). i used to mix without key for many years, many years (i now use both ways) and there's pluses and minuses in both techniques.

no-one is saying mixing in key, organises your set to the dot so you know exactly what you're going to play. what it does is puts your records in easy to manage categories. then you find clusters of records within those categories on the night and every so-often when you feel like it, use your intelligence, spotineity and what you learn to help get you across the sections to mix to another category.

for those times when someone's tapping you on the shoulder for a 5 minute conversation mid-set, this can be a god send. it can get you out of very tight spots when something is wrong with the decks or needles and you need to mix super quick. or it can also be a real god send with melodic music to make the key of melody not clash. for someone like me where performance is a big part of my set, it helps make the choices easier and faster when they need to be. and like theledge says, when you're playing a whole new set of records each week (which i try hard to do) it can also get you out of spots when you havent had time to truly learn a record.

but for most drum based techno, like i say, it is impossible to mix like this. that's why when it comes to techno i personally stop being a such a twat behind the decks and concentrate hard on the mix.

anyway, as for those programs that key up your whole hard drive, they don't work, i've tried them (i stand to be corrected if anyone finds one - that mixing is key prog is crap). and using ableton or the pioneer technique to key stuff up is crap cause you shift the frequency of the whole track and loose the punch and power of the sounds as they were meant to be at the original speed. that master-tempo thing is a similar thing that i hate on the poineer cdj's - stay away from it.

at the mo i only see one way to do this properly and that's stood there with a keyboard in your studio and a great deal of patience hahaha

[jeroenliebregts]

i have a question about this:

As far as i know records are produced on different tempos, and some of them are 'tonal' enough to say they are written in a certain key. But as soon as the music is pressed on vinyl, tempo and key are connected.
So how do you mix an 136 bpm record with a 137 bpm record of the same key?

[loopdon]

i actually strongly disagree with this statement (no offence though mate hehe!!!). i used to mix without key for many years, many years (i now use both ways) and there's pluses and minuses in both techniques.

no-one is saying mixing in key, organises your set to the dot so you know exactly what you're going to play. what it does is puts your records in easy to manage categories. then you find clusters of records within those categories on the night and every so-often when you feel like it, use your intelligence, spotineity and what you learn to help get you across the sections to mix to another category.

for those times when someone's tapping you on the shoulder for a 5 minute conversation mid-set, this can be a god send. it can get you out of very tight spots when something is wrong with the decks or needles and you need to mix super quick. or it can also be a real god send with melodic music to make the key of melody not clash. for someone like me where performance is a big part of my set, it helps make the choices easier and faster when they need to be. and like theledge says, when you're playing a whole new set of records each week (which i try hard to do) it can also get you out of spots when you havent had time to truly learn a record.

but for most drum based techno, like i say, it is impossible to mix like this. that's why when it comes to techno i personally stop being a such a twat behind the decks and concentrate hard on the mix.

anyway, as for those programs that key up your whole hard drive, they don't work, i've tried them (i stand to be corrected if anyone finds one - that mixing is key prog is crap). and using ableton or the pioneer technique to key stuff up is crap cause you shift the frequency of the whole track and loose the punch and power of the sounds as they were meant to be at the original speed. that master-tempo thing is a similar thing that i hate on the poineer cdj's - stay away from it.

at the mo i only see one way to do this properly and that's stood there with a keyboard in your studio and a great deal of patience hahaha

Mark, i agree pretty much whole-heartedly with what you said.

Mixed in key has been updated to 2.5. so it might be better. it relies on an engine bought from 'zplane'; maybe the implementation is flawed but the engine is pretty good i think!

a free alternative with better detection is 'rapid evolution'; i use it to key my drum (and other) samples. i can't comment on the dj-side but that's what it was made for. test showed that the detection was more accurate than 'mixed in key'. to me, getting my samples organized has been a great help. takes a lot of guesswork out of it, imo. not a generalization, i said: for ME. i noticed esp. with snares that they really, really lock with the kickdrum underneath if they are tuned relative to each other. they smack! imo, of course.

i reckon the problem with detection plugins might have something to do with the fact, that loads of producers don't adhere to these 'rules', so the bassline they use might not fit in exactly with the bongo-loops or may be 'off-key' in itself or whatever.

what is a program supposed to do in those cases?
it has to decide between '0' and '1' to be usable but by thus can't possibly consider all the 'grey-scales' a human being might hear/think of. saying: this track could be any in any of these 10 keys
or: the intro might harmonize with..... - would be of even less help, surely.

after all this ramble, please try 'rapid evolution', even if only to see if keying your samples with it helps you for that 'perfect snare, bongo, conga, tom or kick'. it's absolutely free:

"rapid evolution" is an advanced harmonic music library tool for dj's, designed to be used while you mix. it helps profile your songs by saving important properties, such as the bpm, key, time signature, styles, comments, etc. you can then instantly see which songs are within bpm range, in key harmonically and in similar styles. more importantly, it lets you save comments and information about each individual mix you come up with. use it to enhance your knowledge of your music and remember the important details of what you do. you will quickly take your mixing to new levels! the software includes automatic bpm and key detection, as well as tools to determine this information yourself--a bpm tapper and a midi keyboard. it also lets you share all song and mix information with other dj's. use it and start evolving! :-)

http://www.mixshare.com/

http://www.mixshare.com/re2launcher.zip

[Si the Sigh]

that's why when it comes to techno i personally stop being a such a twat behind the decks and concentrate hard on the mix.

Ah! How many times have I said to you I prefer it when you play techno. Less fu*king about! ha ha! :)