Mixing in Key

[BloodStar]

I am mainly mixing by ear. I think it is just up to your personal feelings for the music if you can mix in key just by ears.
Yes, it is pretty good to know a bit of theory, but I wouldn't go too deeep into it and would just stick with what record sounds good with other record. Works well for me...

[dirty_bass]

well, it`ll never fully be in key, because as your pitches will never be exact for each tune etc.
But I`m just being pedantic.

For techno I think mixing OUT of key is more appropriate.
Or mixing within more interesting scales than the chromatic.
When sounds grate against each other it is interesting and creates lovely physical reactions.

It`s ok for your girly trancey heads, all this in key stuff, but for techno, bah humbug.

[JimmySomerville]

I'm thinking on buying this...

http://xone.mixedinkey.com/Homepage.aspx

Allen & heath recently bought up the rights for it...

I'm thinking it will help me a fair bit in using ableton giving an indication of what will work well toghether.

[Siege]

The pioneer djm800 has sound "colour" feature on every track for harmonic mixing.Tune your tracks in key even when there not originally.....id go for this over the allen & heath if thats what your after...allen & heath probably pips it for sound quality but the pioneer has heaps more features.

[Siege]

Just looked at the link and realised its software..thought it was a mixer theyd brought out.

[JimmySomerville]

The pioneer djm800 has sound "colour" feature on every track for harmonic mixing.Tune your tracks in key even when there not originally.....id go for this over the allen & heath if thats what your after...allen & heath probably pips it for sound quality but the pioneer has heaps more features.

The allen&Heath thing is just a program which will key all of the music on your pc, basically letting you know what key all of your tracks are in. You will then easily be able to tell what will go.

It's only £30 compared to buying £1000 djm 800 mixer!

[Siege]

The allen&Heath thing is just a program which will key all of the music on your pc, basically letting you know what key all of your tracks are in. You will then easily be able to tell what will go.

It's only £30 compared to buying £1000 djm 800 mixer!

yeah mate...just realised

[TechMouse]

I'm thinking on buying this...

http://xone.mixedinkey.com/Homepage.aspx

Allen & heath recently bought up the rights for it...

I'm thinking it will help me a fair bit in using ableton giving an indication of what will work well toghether.

My understanding was you can pitchshift stuff in Ableton anyway.

Mixing in key should be child's play.

[RDR]

well, it`ll never fully be in key, because as your pitches will never be exact for each tune etc.
But I`m just being pedantic.

For techno I think mixing OUT of key is more appropriate.
Or mixing within more interesting scales than the chromatic.
When sounds grate against each other it is interesting and creates lovely physical reactions.

It`s ok for your girly trancey heads, all this in key stuff, but for techno, bah humbug.

Couldnt agree more. And besides, music that sticks rigidly to a key leads to a certain kind of boredom... (This doesnt mean im anygood at it in my own production BTW.. im still learning..)

And as EVER IMO

[stjohn]

For techno I think mixing OUT of key is more appropriate.
Or mixing within more interesting scales than the chromatic.
When sounds grate against each other it is interesting and creates lovely physical reactions.

It`s ok for your girly trancey heads, all this in key stuff, but for techno, bah humbug.

this was my argument.... what constitutes dissonance? and why cant it be dissonant in the weird and warped sense.... but yes they are playing trancey minimal stuff.

if it sounds good go for it......thats what i say...

all this organisation kills any spontanaeity...i like to bring a bag of my fav tunes, and not really have any idea what way im going to play them....

[Aratron]

i owuld like to know which of my tunes are which key or wot on earth all this key stuff is anyway

[theledge]

this was my argument.... what constitutes dissonance? and why cant it be dissonant in the weird and warped sense.... but yes they are playing trancey minimal stuff.

if it sounds good go for it......thats what i say...

all this organisation kills any spontanaeity...i like to bring a bag of my fav tunes, and not really have any idea what way im going to play them....

yeah that sounds about right to me , if you know your records really well then you could do it all by ear

I suppose if you have loads of new records every week (chance would be afine thing for me ) it could be a different story....

[MARK ANXIOUS]

all this organisation kills any spontanaeity...i like to bring a bag of my fav tunes, and not really have any idea what way im going to play them....

i actually strongly disagree with this statement (no offence though mate hehe!!!). i used to mix without key for many years, many years (i now use both ways) and there's pluses and minuses in both techniques.

no-one is saying mixing in key, organises your set to the dot so you know exactly what you're going to play. what it does is puts your records in easy to manage categories. then you find clusters of records within those categories on the night and every so-often when you feel like it, use your intelligence, spotineity and what you learn to help get you across the sections to mix to another category.

for those times when someone's tapping you on the shoulder for a 5 minute conversation mid-set, this can be a god send. it can get you out of very tight spots when something is wrong with the decks or needles and you need to mix super quick. or it can also be a real god send with melodic music to make the key of melody not clash. for someone like me where performance is a big part of my set, it helps make the choices easier and faster when they need to be. and like theledge says, when you're playing a whole new set of records each week (which i try hard to do) it can also get you out of spots when you havent had time to truly learn a record.

but for most drum based techno, like i say, it is impossible to mix like this. that's why when it comes to techno i personally stop being a such a twat behind the decks and concentrate hard on the mix.

anyway, as for those programs that key up your whole hard drive, they don't work, i've tried them (i stand to be corrected if anyone finds one - that mixing is key prog is crap). and using ableton or the pioneer technique to key stuff up is crap cause you shift the frequency of the whole track and loose the punch and power of the sounds as they were meant to be at the original speed. that master-tempo thing is a similar thing that i hate on the poineer cdj's - stay away from it.

at the mo i only see one way to do this properly and that's stood there with a keyboard in your studio and a great deal of patience hahaha

[jeroenliebregts]

i have a question about this:

As far as i know records are produced on different tempos, and some of them are 'tonal' enough to say they are written in a certain key. But as soon as the music is pressed on vinyl, tempo and key are connected.
So how do you mix an 136 bpm record with a 137 bpm record of the same key?

[TechMouse]

i have a question about this:

As far as i know records are produced on different tempos, and some of them are 'tonal' enough to say they are written in a certain key. But as soon as the music is pressed on vinyl, tempo and key are connected.
So how do you mix an 136 bpm record with a 137 bpm record of the same key?

That's the thing jeroen, it's all about relative key.

They have to be in-key at the same BPM.

The easiest way to tell this is to beatmatch them and see if it clangs or not.

There really is no point using analytical tools, your ears are your best bet.

Very rarely will a track be in perfect C, or perfect G minor or whatever.

It'll be microtones out.

[jeroenliebregts]

i understand, but i just cant believe such coincidence ever happens... It has to be so precise.

[loopdon]

That's the thing jeroen, it's all about relative key.

They have to be in-key at the same BPM.

The easiest way to tell this is to beatmatch them and see if it clangs or not.

There really is no point using analytical tools, your ears are your best bet.

Very rarely will a track be in perfect C, or perfect G minor or whatever.

It'll be microtones out.

i think quite a lot of more melodic stuff, esp. made by people with classical training is pretty much spot on when it comes to this. not that i have had that training, mind you.

[loopdon]

i have a question about this:

As far as i know records are produced on different tempos, and some of them are 'tonal' enough to say they are written in a certain key. But as soon as the music is pressed on vinyl, tempo and key are connected.
So how do you mix an 136 bpm record with a 137 bpm record of the same key?

this is a good read on the entire subject:

http://www.harmonic-mixing.com/index.mv

http://www.harmonic-mixing.com/overview/overview.mv

your question is possibly answered here:

http://www.harmonic-mixing.com/overview/advanced.mv

this is the easy-mix thang:

http://www.harmonic-mixing.com/overview/easymix.mv

[stjohn]

i have a question about this:

As far as i know records are produced on different tempos, and some of them are 'tonal' enough to say they are written in a certain key. But as soon as the music is pressed on vinyl, tempo and key are connected.
So how do you mix an 136 bpm record with a 137 bpm record of the same key?

well this 3 % on the pitch fader for a semitone thing is supposed to cover that....

the Equal temparate scale is divided into 12 equal frequencies/pitches, so 3 % would apply to 3 x 12 = 96, which is close enough to 100%

if you stuck to this rule while mixing, im sure it could wokr.....but as i said earlier.... rules rules..

[fac]

3 x 12 = 96