not getting paid properly at gigs

[rhythmtech]

is anyone else sick of this bullshit?

last night i was asked to step in to play a gig for a dj who (for whatever reason) couldnt make it.

this was a very very last minute thing and the money wasnt great at all (€100) but as i knew that lads running the techno room at this night i said i'd do it.

end of the night comes and the main promoter walks up to me and hands me €50. this was after me using my own money to buy drinks and to get to the gig.

all in all i spent nearly 20 to get in in a cab (with my gear) 20 on drinks for me and the missus (we werent offered 1 single drink by the promoter) and 20 to get home again.

so basically fo going out, when i already had a night in with the missus planned, im down €10!!!

i said to the promoter that it wasnt on and i had agreed a price with the techno room.. the promoters answer was..

"well we barely broke even!!!!!"

now heres a little advice for promoters (from someone who has promoted in the past)

IF YOU'RE NOT PREPARED TO EITHER LOSE MONEY OR PAY PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR YOU THEN DONT GET INTO PROMOTING!!!

IF YOUR BOSS TURNED TO YOU ON A FRIDAY AND SAID "IM ONLY PAYING YOU HAVE YOUR WAGES THIS WEEK CAUSE WE DIDNT DO TOo WELL" - WOULD YOU ACCEPT IT???

LIKE **** YOU WOULD... SO DONT BE SO RUDE AS TO TAKE THE PISS OUT OF PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR YOU.. ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE DOING YOU A FAVOUR WHEN YOU'RE IN A STICKY SITUATION.

rant over...

[rhythmtech]

and b4 anyone thinks im being a "diva"

i have played many many times for nothing but transport (and i've done so for quite a few people on this board.

i've turned down the full amount from promoters just so that we could ALL leave with a bit of cash in our pockets.

i've played many gigs for a lot less than i should just so a promoter can pay a hefty fee for a headline dj..

and i've no problem doing this because the people i do it for a) treat me well on other occasions - b) wont let me buy a drink if im doing them a favour and c) make sure all my costs are covered and make sure that im not out of pocket for helping them out..


but last night was a complete and utter pisstake. :whoops:


anyway big shouts out to the artists that have to take a cut in their wages because of shoddy promoters.. i've played gigs with a good few of you.. you know who you aer and you deserve respect for keeping a level head..

and a big shout out to all you promoters that treat your artists good.. you know who you are.

the rest of you chancers can **** right off.. if making money off the back of someone elses work is all you care about then you have no place on our scene.

[tonyc2002]

i dont think your being unreasonable. ide be pissed off too chap :grr:

[fils_here]

i think that's fair enough mate really, there's only so much you can do innit.

[Tiptoe]

i recently have had a similar incident with a night that has now been cancelled by the club they were at for taking the piss.
was told i would be paid 50 quid for my set. again i have played for some people on the board and have never asked for a penny i appreciate people giving me the chance to play at their nights. this night contacted me and offered me the money i didn't ask for it but i knew it would cost me 20 quid in a texi there and twenty quid back so i was doing it for next to nothing anyway.
to top it all off 1 of their dj's was late so i went on first as well as my set later on till the first dj came. when he did come i passed him the headphones he did the 3 worst mixes i've ever heard said he didn't want to play! so i carry on playing till next guy turnes up and again he turns up half and hour so i've been playing for a total for an hour and half then played my set later. i left before end of the night as i couldn't be bothered staying till the end and was gonna pick my money up the next day.
guy rings and says he can't afford to pay me they lost money and can he pay me week later. not happy but say ok as nothing i can really do! thats about 3 or 4 weeks ago i've tried ringing him no response, he's not even bothered to ring me either. what a prick. found out he owes one of the other lads who played 100 quid as well from the last time he played for them. the sooner people like this are ou of the scene the better!

[dan the acid man]

yeah, must be shit, nobody likes giving their time, effort and expense to people who aren't grateful for it.

I think alot of these promoters are naieve, they think it's an easy way to make money, then panic when the first few nights they do lose money or struggle to break even.

[APC]

Name and shame them.

A similar thing happened to a guy from Squatjuice the other week. He was promissed pay but it never happened, probably because the night was poorly organised.

The most positive response was You are the DJ, not the promoter, so it is not your problem if the night doesn't break even.

[The Overfiend]

That's why I lift weights, because then when you grab someone by the shirt collar, it changes the tune a little bit.

[rhythmtech]

That's why I lift weights, because then when you grab someone by the shirt collar, it changes the tune a little bit.

doesnt make much differance how big you are when theres 3/4 lads organising a night with 5 or 6 bouncers from the club to back them up :whoops:

[stjohn]

That's why I lift weights, because then when you grab someone by the shirt collar, it changes the tune a little bit.

ill stick on your good side then horse!!!

tbh rhythmntech, you're lucky you got paid something! i mean at least the lads running it didnt totally **** you over... im sure if you had said, listen im down about 20 quid for the night after that 50, can you sort me out, seeing as we had a deal??? im sure they would oblige!! dublin's is way too small to be getting riled up over it, and it was a last-minute semi-botched job of a night, by the sounds of it.

who was it btw??

[Stella Boy]

That's why I lift weights, because then when you grab someone by the shirt collar, it changes the tune a little bit.

how does it ? if the promotor has no money then the promotor has no money plus what if the person you grab by the shirt collar has a knife or is a black belt in martial arts :whoops:

[rhythmtech]

ill stick on your good side then horse!!!

tbh rhythmntech, you're lucky you got paid something! i mean at least the lads running it didnt totally **** you over... im sure if you had said, listen im down about 20 quid for the night after that 50, can you sort me out, seeing as we had a deal??? im sure they would oblige!! dublin's is way too small to be getting riled up over it, and it was a last-minute semi-botched job of a night, by the sounds of it.

who was it btw??

thats the thing.. i did say all that.. and it certainly wasnt a last minute thing..

it was trancelation.. a fairly big night :whoops:

[Pheeva]

I wouldnt be happy either mate, especially ending up a £10 down

[fatcollective]

when i do get paid, i usually waste my money in the club on various shit and end up going home skint anyway....take up law or summat if ya wanna make money!!

sorry baz, i understand your pissed off mate, but shit happens in this game, just dont do any favours next time without some solid cash upfront!!

just take it as a lesson learnt.

[RDR]

when i do get paid, i usually waste my money in the club on various shit and end up going home skint anyway....take up law or summat if ya wanna make money!!

sorry baz, i understand your pissed off mate, but shit happens in this game, just dont do any favours next time without some solid cash upfront!!

just take it as a lesson learnt.

+1

Make them sign a contract next time. its more professional and means you have a leg to stand on.

@antonio... i hear that.

muscle means people dont mess - sad it has to come to that, but your environment is different to ours - respect means more there i think.

[RDR]

As a matter of interest my fee varies depending on place.

think about this though.. what if it happens across international boundaries.

a friend of mine is owed 1000 euros from a recent event... think he will see the money?

bet not unless he hires a lawyer over there.

the industry is a skank in the main, unless you play with the big boys - then things become based on legal agreements. Its a situation most people POO POO because they think it makes them look to 'establishment' but i think thats a false positive.

if you deal with a promoter who is genuine, they will be happy to sign an agreement - it makes things friendlier. no more aggressive.

2p worth innit.

[Sunil]

how does it ? if the promotor has no money then the promotor has no money plus what if the person you grab by the shirt collar has a knife or is a black belt in martial arts :whoops:

Yeah, but a lot of this comes down to the fact that a promoter knows he/she can **** around with someone if it is a local act they are not obligated by contract to pay.. or in some cases is a friend or familiar acquaintance.

The fact is that in the back of the minds of many promoters, or in their sums prior to a gig, support acts or local acts come way down the line.. after practically every other expense. Sure, there might be a ballpark sum provisionally made out, but that can usually open to change, unlike any other set expense of a night. I guess it comes down to people just really enjoying or wanting to play out, and promoters being aware of that fact.

If the promoter here agreed a fee with Barry, then they should have paid it. I doubt they asked or expected certain other guests to take a cut either.
Now I'm sure if they explained the situation to Barry and ASKED him would he mind accepting a little less then Barry might not have minded so much.. rather than just throwing him half of the agreed fee, after he had just got them out of a last minute hole.

There are *lots* of good promoters out there, but a word of warning to people out there - if a promoter does not discuss anything with you regarding money prior to a gig, do not accept this. Chances are they don't really value you if they haven't put a value on your fee/money, and took time to mention it to you.

Every DJ has to go through this stage of doing gigs for nothing or very little; but that stage shouldn't last too long.

[Sunil]

+1

Make them sign a contract next time. its more professional and means you have a leg to stand on.

Yeah true. It's not always the way things pan out though, especially if you know the people already. Also, I'd imagine a lot of people would naturally not ask the promoter to sign a contract for fear that it might affect that booking or other future bookings with the promoter. i.e. Promoter going "who the hell does this guy think he is?" etc.

It really depends what level you're on in many cases - whether you're Jeff Mills or Joe Bloggs.

Still though, anyone who is in the game for a while and who genuinely adds to a lineup, should feel within their rights to make a proper agreement with the promoter. And if the promoter has a problem with this or fails to pay to agreed fee after the gig, then they aren't being good promoters.

[rhythmtech]

If the promoter here agreed a fee with Barry, then they should have paid it. I doubt they asked or expected certain other guests to take a cut either.
Now I'm sure if they explained the situation to Barry and ASKED him would he mind accepting a little less then Barry might not have minded so much.. rather than just throwing him half of the agreed fee, after he had just got them out of a last minute hole.

100%.

if the guy had come to me and said "look, we lost our bollox here tonight" then i woulda said fine. cover my expenses ie taxi's and the few drinks.

but like i said i came out a tenner out of pocket, which although isnt really that much money, is still a loss.

im not blaming the guy who ran the techno room. he's a genuine guy who was left standing outside the club, with no back-up, as i was still argueing my case. the main promoter had already left at this stage. the guy running the techno room has also been screwed as he paid for the original dj's flights and never got money for that either.

what sunil said about main artists is true aswell..

a dublin dj (lets call him dj pressured :; ) was headlining the techno room. he got paid EVEN though he a) didnt play techno and b) got asked to step down 50 mins into his set as he cleared the techno room. but because of either who he is or who (from the promoters) knows him, he got his full payement.

i wont go into how much that was as thats his business , but sunil knows who im talking about and believe me sunil, it was too much for said individual..

anyway lesson learnt.

im not gonna change my way of working with dublin promters because as i've already said, the ones i generally do work with are top class blokes.. but i wont be playing for this lot again and i would advise any dublin dj's who do to sort out the finances long b4 they're left standing on the street with just enough to get them home.

[rhythmtech]

when i do get paid, i usually waste my money in the club on various shit and end up going home skint anyway....take up law or summat if ya wanna make money!!

sorry baz, i understand your pissed off mate, but shit happens in this game, just dont do any favours next time without some solid cash upfront!!

just take it as a lesson learnt.

i know dude.. we've both been in the same place when it happened :)

but i woulda thought making the effort to do someone a favour makes you immune to it?