Vinyl vs Digital - Which do you buy?

[rhythmtech]

And having a label means nothing any more.
.

unless you make it a label that means something to people.. which, unfortunatly, are thin on the ground.

[dirty_bass]

It`s not so much that man, it`s just the sheer level of new labels every week, it has made people take new labels less seriously.
Getting avoice as a new producer on a new label is a real tough thing to do, but everyone thinks it is the way forward.

And this is what happens with most new labels.
To get the sales up and for 002 to go anywhere, new labels go for a big name.
Let`s say Dave Clark for example.
Record sells.
Why, because of Dave Clark.
Fans that bought it for Dave Clark will then buy whatever other release Dave Clark does next month, and said new label, who doesn`t have big name for following release, gets overlooked again.
So you get caught in the trap of making your label an outlet for the big names, which defeats the purpose.
OR you need to do something really original, which of course means taking a risk, which few are willing to do, and fewer distributers are willing to distribute.

You`ll see for yourself, running labels is no walk in the park.
Good luck by the way.

[rhythmtech]

ive already pulled all my hair out at this stage with it:ohdear:

its possibly the hardest thing i've ever done.. having to learn everything involved with it. the music part seems to be the least of my worries.

but i agree that there are 1001 new labels evertime i open up beatport. hopefully by keeping our runs on the small side we can build on each release and actually releasing on vinyl seems to be a novelty aswell so that will hopefully stand to our favour.

i know its not a 100% indication of sales but our orders for 01 are doing very well so far.

plus, and i think this is the most important factor.. this has been a long time planned, so the money is there to take us thru bad sales if that happens.

without proper financial backing and planning it would be madness and possibly very short lived

[dirty_bass]

I think anyone financing and backing a label properly is in fact mad.


It helps.

[rhythmtech]

I think anyone financing and backing a label properly is in fact mad.


It helps.

he who dares...

[Jay Pace]

he who dares...

Damn right.

Think its the same as running a night. Costs you money, takes ages to get up and running - but once your established you reap the benefits in many other ways than just the door tax.

You get access to people you would otherwise never speak to, you make friends you would never come across otherwise and you feel more plugged into the scene you love. You network, you get opportunities presented to you by way of reciprocity, you personally gain if you produce or dj...

Plus you get an opportunity to do things how you want. On your terms.

[dirty_bass]

Oh of course there are benefits.
But these benefits are less so now.
I would agree with everything you said maybe 4 years ago.
We are still in a state of flux right now, and no one seems to know which side the coin is gonna land.

[Jay Pace]

To continue the analogy we've seen half a dozen well known nights pack up in Brighton, and we've carried on pretty strong. I'm sure we'll go the same way in the end and someone else will say the same about us.

We've seen plenty of nights try and fail as well, not through lack of trying and not through lack of quality.

The thing that seems to stand you apart is actually having some staying power, and having the balls to back yourself and see the thing through.

People need to time to become aware of your brand, whatever your brand is. Nobody is going to cut through the clutter these days with one attempt.

Everyone is pining for brands that stand for something - trusted sources. You don't get that kind of positioning straight off.

Believe in yourself, keep doing what you do, be prepared to lose money and budget accordingly. If you've got the balls you'll see it through, and reap the benefit.

[Sam_Horam]

I prefer mixing with vinyl/cds. I enjoy having to beat match my records - there's not really any more thought to it than that for me. There's a lot of skill involved in mixing records well.

As various people have said in this thread it all comes down to whatever you like doing.

If I was just getting into this music now I might not have bought some decks. But I did (back when vinyl was everything) and now I love buying vinyl and having a record collection.

Regarding running a label - well it's true that there's a ridiculous amount of different labels and some of the stuff released is of a very poor standard. But I don't begrudge anyone setting up their own label and having a go if they want to. It's their time and money.

Everyone keeps saying how bad things are in terms of record sales and that techno is on a continually downward spiral, but people shouldn't quit or get disheartened by that. Just keep doing your thing and enjoy it for the sake of it - maybe one day things will start to turn round here in the UK.

[dirty_bass]

To continue the analogy we've seen half a dozen well known nights pack up in Brighton, and we've carried on pretty strong. I'm sure we'll go the same way in the end and someone else will say the same about us.

We've seen plenty of nights try and fail as well, not through lack of trying and not through lack of quality.

The thing that seems to stand you apart is actually having some staying power, and having the balls to back yourself and see the thing through.

People need to time to become aware of your brand, whatever your brand is. Nobody is going to cut through the clutter these days with one attempt.

Everyone is pining for brands that stand for something - trusted sources. You don't get that kind of positioning straight off.

Believe in yourself, keep doing what you do, be prepared to lose money and budget accordingly. If you've got the balls you'll see it through, and reap the benefit.

I agree, and I think the best advice for anyone looking to start a label in the techno scene, is to throw preconceptions about big hits, marketing etc out of the window.
The market is too small for that, and those days are gone.
Treat it as fun, approach it as something you do for love, and don`t have any expectations. There`s little point in over marketing or aiming for a target audience, I think staying true to your passion, and striving for originality will do you more in terms of personal rewards.
Keep your business wits about you, but don`t treat it too much as a business.
As in terms of business models, a techno label is fairly ludicrous.

So you may as well just have pure fun with it.

[SlavikSvensk]

It`s not so much that man, it`s just the sheer level of new labels every week, it has made people take new labels less seriously.

agreed. flooding the market is also not usually terribly good for the market's durability. i mean, fair dos to anyone who wants to publish themselves. their right and good luck to them. but the cumulative effect of many such ventures--especially those that are low-grade--is damaging. vinyl sales overall decline, etc.

[TechMouse]

To continue the analogy we've seen half a dozen well known nights pack up in Brighton, and we've carried on pretty strong. I'm sure we'll go the same way in the end and someone else will say the same about us.

We've seen plenty of nights try and fail as well, not through lack of trying and not through lack of quality.

The thing that seems to stand you apart is actually having some staying power, and having the balls to back yourself and see the thing through.

People need to time to become aware of your brand, whatever your brand is. Nobody is going to cut through the clutter these days with one attempt.

Everyone is pining for brands that stand for something - trusted sources. You don't get that kind of positioning straight off.

Believe in yourself, keep doing what you do, be prepared to lose money and budget accordingly. If you've got the balls you'll see it through, and reap the benefit.

Spot on.

Dom's attitude with Pure Filth is just to put on the music we want to hear.

Couldn't care less about making money, just 100% putting on the kind of night that we would want to go to if we weren't busy putting on nights.

Absolutely no point compromising your vision to make a fast buck, as "the crowd" is a fickle beast that it's nigh-on impossible to predict.

Do what you want, believe in what you do, and if you happen to make a killing on the night then put a good chunk in the pot for next month and redistribute the remains accordingly to the people who made it happen.

[djshiva]

i still buy both, but the overwhelming majority these days is digital. with the economy in the toilet, and promoters loathe to actually pay djs worth a shit, i just can't be arsed to spend hundreds a week on tunes when i can spend a small percentage of that and have just as many great tunes.

i use vinyl when i feel like it, serato when it's available, cds if i am not wanting to cart my shit around or i know the setup will be wobbly, and ableton when i play dubstep (because the tunes are not always dj friendly for a techno-minded girl and i like to do my own instant edits). my next step in the evolution is to mix ableton WITH turntables. still working on that, but it will happen soon. my boy gizzmo and i are also getting geared up for a turntables vs. ableton set (as me and adam jay have done before, to great effect).

so basically, the plethora of choices has just made djing that much more fun for me because i can do whatever i want, whenever i want. i have no complaints whatsoever.

oh and p.s. if some wanker wants to give me shit for using anything other than vinyl, i tell the ****ers if they wanna shell out hundreds for my tunes, then they can actually have a say in what medium i play. until then, they can go frak themselves.

[RDR]

Some really interesting views here... enjoying reading it.

I have to say some of steve's comments make me feel a bit uneasy about doing what im doing, but never the less its not going to slow me down.

I happen to believe that the 'Coin in the air' thinking is a positive in my book. People will always want to buy good music and the manner in which they buy it has always been in flux in one way or another. Therefore change is inevitable.

Running a label, sure thats a toughie fo' sho' but im not gonna let up with my efforts. Money is certainly an issue but only as far as presentation goes.

There are a lot of things to be taken into consideration when selling music, content, presentation and what seems to be the most important at the moment - consumer accesibility and content protection.

the subscription model is a seemingly good one, but i can help feeling its industry led and geared towards the bubblegum markets rather than the niche markets such as techno.

Someone else said that physical product is something they still consider, and i agree with this. physical product is something i personally want and im willing to bet that everyday people still do. Hence the r3tox shop will be selling CDs as well as the labels MP3's through BP and Juno et al.

Diversity certainly seems to be the key and i for one am more interested in selling quality electronic music / dance rather than 'niching.'

Time will tell what happens with the industry but i do know this, the big labels are notoriously slow to react to changes wihtin the industry and its usually the independants who lead the way musically. We shall see which way the coin falls, but for the moment setting up a label is probably a good thing on balance.

On a more personal note, i enjoy this business and its challenges and i really think that working in this field gives me as a techno fan the biggest opporunity to really push the sound of the fantastic artists and producers who have had the kindness to help me.

Regards

Chris.