Vinyl vs Digital - Which do you buy?

[dirty_bass]

Oh contraire, mon frere......physical action of mixing with vinyl vs ableton is much different. I can safely give an honest and fair opinion having experienced the use of both at performances. I used ableton - I found myself playing great music, but bored out of my mind - everything is warped so the beats are already matched for you once all the prep-work has been done - what fun is that? Sure, you can use efx and blah blah, but the same can be done when you are playing vinyl (or in my case, using serato) and having a pioneer or any number of mixers on the market that have built in filters and efx. At least when I'm playing vinyl, I feel like I'm constantly moving and doing something......but this is my personal preference.

then you quite simply aren`t using your equipment to it`s full potential.
When I played vinyl, the mix was in within 10-15 seconds.
I had time to jump about and light a cig.
Now I play with up to 12 tracks of audio, plus efx, I`m sweating like a right bastard, and totally totally focused on the mix.
However, that`s live PA, DJing with ableton is a little different.
But it`s still arguiing over nothing.
I`ve taught people to mix in a day, it`s not really hard is it, pure motor skill.
Essentially learning 2 things, how much of a difference moving the pitch slider makes to the vinyl speed, and how to handle the vinyl on the platter.
then just learning to use your ears effectively, and then EQ.
It`s not rocket science, and hardly much of a performance now is it?

Not that it matters, but if I still DJ`d, I expect I`d use mostly ableton, with a touch of vinyl occasionally, just to stop me getting rusty.

[TechMouse]

Sure, you can use efx and blah blah, but the same can be done when you are playing vinyl (or in my case, using serato) and having a pioneer or any number of mixers on the market that have built in filters and efx.

Can you mix elements of 5 or 6 tracks at once?

Can you re-sequence tracks on the fly so that (e.g.) you have a breakdown last twice as long as it might do normally, off the cuff?

Can you jig it so that you hit the drop of 3 tracks simultenously at the click of a button?

Can you trivially add your own drum loops and acid lines in real time?

Can you sample your voice, chop it up into transients, apply the groove template of some other loop that's running and then bring it in as a texture - completely improvised?

Seriously, there are things you can do with Ableton you couldn't hope to do with vinyl. You can get close using CD decks with cue & loop points, but it's still not quite as flexible.

If you can't imagine stuff you could do with Ableton that you couldn't do with decks then you're just not thinking very hard.

[TechMouse]

Just to add some context here, I DJ pretty exclusively with vinyl - occasionally with CDs.

I'm just getting into Ableton but I don't think I'd bother using it as a DJing tool, that feels like a massive waste to me. Live PA all the way I reckon.

[DJ Becka]

Just to add some context here, I DJ pretty exclusively with vinyl - occasionally with CDs.

I'm just getting into Ableton but I don't think I'd bother using it as a DJing tool, that feels like a massive waste to me. Live PA all the way I reckon.

See, this is where I can see ableton being more useful - using it more as a live pa tool rather than a djing one. Perhaps I am not using it to it's full potential - actually, I am SURE I'm not, but either way, it's just not my personal preference for djing. Call me old fashioned - I just enjoy being behind the decks better. And yes, I've seen people do really cool sets with ableton too, just the same as seeing people doing shitty sets with it. For me, I'll use it for production and stick with the vinyl medium for playing out at gigs.

As it is, I only switched to using Serato a little over a year ago - I was vinyl all the way, as was my attitude towards djs and what they were using to play. It's been a gradual process for me to start to embrace more digital means of doing things.....give a sista a break......I grew up with vinyl - so it's a bit tough to just let it go.....I had to work hard to get to where I am, and now any idiot can be a dj with all the technology that is out there to make it easy for them.

Ok, so this is starting to go in the wrong direction, but I'll briefly touch upon this, since people think I'm completely wrong, and so you can understand why I feel the way I feel about this stuff.

I suppose at the end of the day, it's what's coming out of the speakers that matters, but I think what bothers me the most about people using ableton for djing is that they just seem to look/act bored. I dont stand there and watch the dj the entire time, however, if I am on the dancefloor, I look up and see that the dj looks bored and has one hand in their pocket, it kinda kills the vibe for me. Again, this is just me - if it doesnt bother any of you, that's your perogative....

Anyway, if for some reason, I happen to change my mind in the future in terms of using something other than vinyl for djing, I'll be sure to let you all know ;)

btw, did I mention that I buy both vinyl and digital? Yea....that was the subject of this poll......lol

[dan the acid man]

mainly buying digital these days, wish i could afford to buy both in same quantaties but i can't.

I have as much fun mixing with ableton as i do with vinyl, as i also try to use more channels with ableton and push things a little further although im still learning.

It is nice to get the old decks out now and again though, had them out for the first time in a year the other week

[BRADLEE]

Hang out on both ends at the moments.

[xfive]

Call me cynical but..

Neither.

I can't remember the last time I heard anything worth buying...

[DJ Becka]

Call me cynical but..

Neither.

I can't remember the last time I heard anything worth buying...

Great response.....thanks for playing.

[wrong]

and then i suddenly realised holy shit, i'm not having to worry about that pissed up twat at the front bouncing too much.

heheh, don't you mean you don't have to worry about YOU bouncing around too much... ;)

i still use vinyl all the way.. exept if i got some new tracks then i'll play em on cd , but never more than 3 or 4 during a set.. I would buy digital if it point blank wasn't available on vinyl, but for me i only feel that i own the track if i have it on vinyl, even cd feels false... thinking of releasing the don't back catalogue as mp3's tho... can't hurt can it.. There's really nothing i've heard that i'd want to buy that exists soley as an mp3 release, but if that changes then of course i'd buy it and incorporate it on a burned cd..

[xfive]

Great response.....thanks for playing.

I wish I were playing :)

[dubs]

Disclaimer..... I'm not taking the piss with anyone...

In my post i spoke about my preference. I agree with what's been said above and the possibilities offered by digital are great and will only get better. but in response to the above "When I played vinyl, the mix was in within 10-15 seconds." it would seem that you're not getting the most out of vinyl.

Obviously this is a discussion about personal pref and mine is with vinyl, firstly because it is what i know, and secondly because with three decks and effects there is a massive potential each set to create new sounds and cuts. This is not to say it's better than digital, but for me...having 3 decks and a box of records and no plan provides me with the greatest pleasure when playing and when i'm watching a dj i also like to see fast working creativity on the decks al la the 'Wizard'.

If what I like is better for the average punter i have no idea but for me it's best.

[Martin Dust]

I'll use anything and everything, I'm planning on playing some spoons at Fabric this weekend.

[Si the Sigh]

Spoons? Move with the times man...

It's all about the forks now.

[Martin Dust]

Well we may as well talk about spoons and forks :)

I just don't get why techno dj's, of all people, don't like change and choose to cling to past like it's some kind rite of passage.

[christian wagner]

I buy vinyl, i dont do CD's there cheap and crappy and VERY unreliable, plus iv played on so many CD decks in clubs that have been shitted up and just skip all over the place, and i think theres far too much hype on the whole digital thing, its made out to be summot special and groundbreaking.

These variants in music mediums ties in nicely with the competitive DJ thing, and its a bit sad. i KNOW in some genres, if you dont play off CD or laptop, you dont get booked, purely because if you do use CD's or laptop - people seem to think you have exclusive material - the fact of whether or not its not been heard before is irrelevent. As well as the whole "digital is cleaner blah blah" argument, playing off CD or Laptop is an Ego sorta thing i think.

Said that... i DO play off laptop and really enjoy it, playing a loada loops. beats, acid lines, breakdowns all in different places is really fun, add that to a midi controller with FX's macrod to them and your laughing.
THEN at select intervals play a few new vinyls..... Or CD's if the CDJ's work :D

PLEASE READ:
i am NOT saying that in techno that its an Ego thing playing off digital mediums that have exclusive 'not-released-on-vinyl-yet'
I just hope it doesnt go the same way as a lot of other dance music.
Il buy vinyl untill the big bosses in suits who own the companies that make the vinyl say "were finally stopping vinyl production" which is a long way off yet - vinyl is pressed all over this blue earth, and theres always gonna be someone who wants vinyl......noticed the influx in Indie & rock music on vinyl? and HMV's sudden influx in vinyl stock? (at the HMV in derby anyway)!

[christian wagner]

I just don't get why techno dj's, of all people, don't like change and choose to cling to past like it's some kind rite of passage.

I dont see it as a MAJOR change, i personally see it as a bit of an overblown topic :lol:

.....I remember playing spoons back in the day.........The tablespoon variety - That scene was cracking haha!

[DJ Becka]

Obviously this is a discussion about personal pref and mine is with vinyl, firstly because it is what i know, and secondly because with three decks and effects there is a massive potential each set to create new sounds and cuts. This is not to say it's better than digital, but for me...having 3 decks and a box of records and no plan provides me with the greatest pleasure when playing and when i'm watching a dj i also like to see fast working creativity on the decks al la the 'Wizard'.

Actually, this wasnt intended to be a discussion over what people's personal preference was, but it seems to have derailed and is going that route.

I really posted the poll because I just wanted to know whether people were buying vinyl, digital, or both.....

It's a simple question really.....and I have my reasons for asking.....which I will be sure to disclose at some point in the future.....for now, anyone who has not answered the poll, please do so....this is actually interesting because there seems to be an even split between those whoe buy soley vinyl and those who buy both......

[dan the acid man]

Actually, this wasnt intended to be a discussion over what people's personal preference was, but it seems to have derailed and is going that route.

I really posted the poll because I just wanted to know whether people were buying vinyl, digital, or both.....

It's a simple question really.....and I have my reasons for asking.....which I will be sure to disclose at some point in the future.....for now, anyone who has not answered the poll, please do so....this is actually interesting because there seems to be an even split between those whoe buy soley vinyl and those who buy both......

my guess is you're thinking of setting up a label but want to gain an idea of what medium people are wanting to buy, or am i wrong?

[dubs]

he's not setting up a fruit shop?

[TechMouse]

As it is, I only switched to using Serato a little over a year ago - I was vinyl all the way, as was my attitude towards djs and what they were using to play. It's been a gradual process for me to start to embrace more digital means of doing things.....give a sista a break......I grew up with vinyl - so it's a bit tough to just let it go.....

So, just to try and pin this down a little:

You're using Serato anyway, so you're already eschewing rooting around in a record bag in favour of searching on a laptop. So this makes me wonder...

Is it just the mechanical action of getting two pieces of plastic rotating at the correct relative speeds that does it for you?

And if so, why exactly?

I take your point about people looking bored, but I've seen vinyl DJ's look bored before too. Surely that's a shortcoming in the DJ rather than an inherent stumling block of the technology.

Just trying to understand your point of view.

I had to work hard to get to where I am, and now any idiot can be a dj with all the technology that is out there to make it easy for them.

I don't get that angle at all.

Are Americans worse drivers than us Brits because the majority of you use automatic cars? Of course not...

Surely the difference is that people just have to work harder to stand out?

Just like with producing IMHO.

20 years ago, only a few people had access to the technology. Now it's commonplace. You have to be better to make your mark.