you will shoot me for saying it but....

[Si the Sigh]

Part of the problem IMHO is we are getting too many DAVE the Drummer clones banging out tracks at the moment. All high quality fillers, but no killers...

[rhythmtech]

Part of the problem IMHO is we are getting too many DAVE the Drummer clones banging out tracks at the moment. All high quality fillers, but no killers...

i dont think this is the case at all.. i think a lot of producers may have started out trying to "copy" a certain style but this is just a learning period really.

off the top of my head i cant think of 1 producer who sounds like henry or lawrie.. i think possibly people are writing similiar styles but this is the same in every "scene".. how many indie bands are there doing the indie thing?

[dirty_bass]

i dont think this is the case at all.. i think a lot of producers may have started out trying to "copy" a certain style but this is just a learning period really.

off the top of my head i cant think of 1 producer who sounds like henry or lawrie.. i think possibly people are writing similiar styles but this is the same in every "scene".. how many indie bands are there doing the indie thing?

There`s loads of producers who sound like Henry.
Similar basslines, even similar EQ distribution. riffs.
that`s a good compliment to Henry.

Lawrie I see less copied. (pounding grooves), but then it`s a slightly harder sound to achieve anyway (although it`s again, had henry`s hand in it anyway)

god bless ya henry
I just realised

You da man!!

[rhythmtech]

There`s loads of producers who sound like Henry.
Similar basslines, even similar EQ distribution. riffs.

cant think of one to be honest :whoops:

care to name any names?

[dirty_bass]

cant think of one to be honest :whoops:

care to name any names?

I don`t wanna get into mud slinging.
Virtually all london techno not made by the original london techno heads bears a heavy streak of henry in it.
some more than others

[nihilist]

it is getting very negative but then again i've noticed over the last few years to much of it, techno seems to have been split into so many subdivisions that its all or nothing for most poeple, it's either to fast to slow to hard etc. etc. what ever happened to just going to club to enjoy whatever dj's want to play?

forget tesco's get down to kwiksave they have loads of bankrupt stock going.

[RDR]

it is getting very negative but then again i've noticed over the last few years to much of it, techno seems to have been split into so many subdivisions that its all or nothing for most poeple, it's either to fast to slow to hard etc. etc. what ever happened to just going to club to enjoy whatever dj's want to play?

forget tesco's get down to kwiksave they have loads of bankrupt stock going.

Actually i wasnt being negative. cant speak for anyone else.

my stand point is: what the hell is techno anyway?

[paulcortex]

WTF is all that about???

this stuff is not my cup of tea and would empty most dancefloors i play to,
its just not dancefloor/party/punter friendly,
we are talking about re including the punters not frightening them

to quote henry-

"we need TUNES , real jump up raving out of you head anthems , not more heads down , tribal washing machine grooves or cut up hip hop unintelligable vocal mish mashes.

a spot of melody , an acid line , but a concept , and a strong original one ,
thats what rocks the dancefloor evrywhere!
booom!"

littlefella is right....we want the energy back! long live acid techno!

[phantomdj]

Frightening them? What I am then? oblivious to this sound? Or am I open-minded enough to hear the beauty in this particular invention? Dance floor friendly? That sounds like some gatecrasher comment. What the hell is that anyway? If you are in an 80s bar then blondie is dance floor friendly. If you are at vibealite, then scott brown is dancefloor friendly. If you are at a dNb night then Hype is dance floor friendly. If you are at some crap bar in town, then commercial clubland music is dance floor friendly.

The term itself is nonsensical. I can quite easily dance to 'flashcore' or any form of hardcore above 160bpm.... but give me something slower and i can't move to it. it's too slow. You have to dance like a bird with all your effeminate moves and you look like a tit. How can anyone move their body so slowly and feel comfortable? You just end up looking like a lady boy such as Justin timberlake.

What are you trying to achieve? more listeners? If that's what you want then start playing gatecrasher.

If it's the music you wish to advance rather than the number of participants then it's going to take something radical.

Those who push the boundaries and carry on inventing new sounds always leave genres and produce something on their own...then the previous genre becomes stale, just like your staple 'techno' scene now.

venetian snares
la peste
ed flis

All moving in their own direction producing something you don't affiliate with many others...

Or you can go the other way and producers start to produce music for the masses and the genre they were once pioneers in, also falls apart...

eg sell outs ... then all the wannabes who are part of the 'hero-worship' of these former pioneers remain and copy this music - thus, the previous genre (in all its glory) has taken on a ghost image of dilute techno with added sweeteners.

Shout going out to the aspartame crew.. haha

[paulcortex]

This music is more like painting with sounds....pictures with sounds...this thread was started by Henry with the aim of discussing how we can restore techno (and acid techno) to the credible entity that it should be, im not saying that this music does not have its place, just not on the dance floors we are refering to...THIS IS THE ACID TECHNO SECTION!

[APC]

Frightening them? What I am then? oblivious to this sound? Or am I open-minded enough to hear the beauty in this particular invention? Dance floor friendly? That sounds like some gatecrasher comment. What the hell is that anyway? If you are in an 80s bar then blondie is dance floor friendly. If you are at vibealite, then scott brown is dancefloor friendly. If you are at a dNb night then Hype is dance floor friendly. If you are at some crap bar in town, then commercial clubland music is dance floor friendly.

The term itself is nonsensical. I can quite easily dance to 'flashcore' or any form of hardcore above 160bpm.... but give me something slower and i can't move to it. it's too slow. You have to dance like a bird with all your effeminate moves and you look like a tit. How can anyone move their body so slowly and feel comfortable? You just end up looking like a lady boy such as Justin timberlake.

What are you trying to achieve? more listeners? If that's what you want then start playing gatecrasher.

If it's the music you wish to advance rather than the number of participants then it's going to take something radical.

Those who push the boundaries and carry on inventing new sounds always leave genres and produce something on their own...then the previous genre becomes stale, just like your staple 'techno' scene now.

venetian snares
la peste
ed flis

All moving in their own direction producing something you don't affiliate with many others...

Or you can go the other way and producers start to produce music for the masses and the genre they were once pioneers in, also falls apart...

eg sell outs ... then all the wannabes who are part of the 'hero-worship' of these former pioneers remain and copy this music - thus, the previous genre (in all its glory) has taken on a ghost image of dilute techno with added sweeteners.

Shout going out to the aspartame crew.. haha

If I want to hear a bag of spanners falling into a spinning propellor, I'll do a wingwalk on the Crunchie bi-plane and lob a toolkit and listen REALLY hard to the next 2 minutes as the engine disintergrates around me sending metallic thrashing sounds crossed with the wind, a grating of metal and ultimately a crash as the plane impacts into the ground.

I don't want to hear that though. It's just not my cup of tea.

My cup of tea is made of throbbing basslines, screeching 303's and a vocal telling me that "it's the plumber".

Horses for courses though innit.

[phantomdj]

''My cup of tea is made of throbbing basslines, screeching 303's and a vocal telling me that "it's the plumber".''

Then start listening to the DJ Producer or Promo. :-)

[lunatrick]

will the plumber please put the wheels back on the washing machine so it can spin it's way out of the musical ghetto wherein it finds itself!!

[Si the Sigh]

It's all "wow! check out the production" and not enough good track ideas...

[nihilist]

here what your saying si, but for every person that wants old style acid there are more saying that sounds old style we want new sounds!

[the_psychologist]

I think that music needs to be seen as "cool" to attract more people to the fray, both listeners and producers. How many times do you hear ANY acid classics played out? I mean anything from the early/mid 90s American, German, UK scenes? I have gone back to being in love with this music, but I also have the luxury of owning a huge amount of it. Most people just don't know what they missed, and they have no way of hearing it. If no one is playing it, few people know about it. The classic sound needs to be hammered back into the collective consciousness to hopefully sow the seeds again for more music that draws on it for inspiration.

Personally, I have never seen Techno as having the same lifespan as music with a Trance structure. In all my years of loving dance music, I have never just whacked an 8 minute loopy Techno track on as listening music. That sort of music is about being in the mix, which will always limit it. We needs tracks that have a story and all that cliched bullshit.

I'll probably get slagged for this, but the only new music I find exciting is the stuff on labels like Cocoon, Border Community, Traum, etc.. BC especially has blown me away with many tracks from young producers who seem to have decided to ignore genre traps and just mash all influences together in a very intelligent way. Check out James Holden, Minilogue, Petter, Extrawelt, etc.. Maybe not music to gurn to, but it at least shows that it's still quite possible to be original and meaningful. And funny how recognition just followed for them as a result of doing music with integrity.

Rambleramble

[Athar]

Most people just don't know what they missed, and they have no way of hearing it. If no one is playing it, few people know about it. The classic sound needs to be hammered back into the collective consciousness to hopefully sow the seeds again for more music that draws on it for inspiration.

Exacly, every year we have less and less people who remember old school records. They just leave from music indriusty or they stop producing music.
I not mean only they can get us for new inspiration or make techno music better now, but i think they can make a track by tools with cant used 15 years ago because this tools didnt exist yet.
Why just not use the simple old idea and make a tune by using modern tools for making the music ?
How many of us remember old acid records from 1990 to 1994 ?
I quess not too many but i believe here on boa its the bigest collective producers who still remember this great golden era.
My suggest could be > go back to harthouse label and listen all this old records again, they have everything what we need to get new, great acid tune.

[Si the Sigh]

here what your saying si, but for every person that wants old style acid there are more saying that sounds old style we want new sounds!

So do I mate, but with some old skool love and thought.

Look at the tripe that's coming out on SUF soon, that new one by Chris & Guy.

Now look back deep within your record collection and pull out tracks by these two.

How the fu*k did they go from absolute monster track to this trash?

Fair play, the productions great, but the track sucks.

[the_psychologist]

And as retro as I might sound, I'm not calling people to just remake classic tracks. I just think there was an energy and attention to detail in those old Acid Techno/Trance tunes that is often missing these days, and people who are never exposed to them cannot draw on them for inspiration.

There's a reason i can still whack them on 10 to 15 years later and just listen, you know?

Maybe producers think they will win the battle by putting out more tracks, faster, but it just dilutes everything that makes underground dance music good.

Sorry for flogging this old horse again...

[Si the Sigh]

And as retro as I might sound, I'm not calling people to just remake classic tracks. I just think there was an energy and attention to detail in those old Acid Techno/Trance tunes that is often missing these days, and people who are never exposed to them cannot draw on them for inspiration.

There's a reason i can still whack them on 10 to 15 years later and just listen, you know?

Maybe producers think they will win the battle by putting out more tracks, faster, but it just dilutes everything that makes underground dance music good.

Sorry for flogging this old horse again...

My thoughts exactly.

Too many "throw away tracks" are being hammered out. Where's the quality control gone?