Q: Should acid techno...

[Si the Sigh]

...try going the way Techno has and go back to basics, minimal if you like?

The reason I say this is because when I was talking to DAVE the Drummer at Atmosphere, it seemed we were both in the same way of thinking when realising that acid techno was quite simple, and minimal in the past.

If you think about it, there were no overly complicated percussion loops in tracks, just more clever yet simple programing but still with the funk (eg; Piston on Routemaster), more space in the tracks (eg; Immersion's remix of X-Ray OK on SUFR) and better, more out there sounds and fillers in tracks (eg; any of Guy McAffer's tracks on Intensiv), and a certain trance feel, not always in an acid trance style, but I mean a state of trance on the dancefloor by being locked into a track that doesn't do anything for a while, relentless if you like, with more haunting FX.

I also really do believe that after seeing a post on here from Steve Dirty Bass a while back, and also from talking to Henry, that the use of computers to produce music has had a serious knock on effect with the tracks that come out. With hardware, the user had to really push their equipment to get mad sounds, and the best out of it. Tracks could take months.

Now with PC's / Mac's dominating studios, it's far easier to knock up tracks, and although good, tracks will more often than not sound pretty much the same as another producers at times. With computers doing alot of the grunt, it's easier to knock out tracks with good skill and knowledge, but does that lead to quantity over quality?

What are your thoughts on that, and also taking acid techno to a minimal level?

[christian wagner]

Could work yeah,

One thing about the loops thing, and it being easy to knock up a track on any computer - i think sometimes people want to see that they have used as much as theyc an in a track, otherwise they assume its not gonna be good, iv done tracks with no more than 2 audio tracks and 5 percussion tracks, it can be done!!

you've inspired me Si - im gonna make summot now :D

[acidguru]

Going back to the basics can´t be wrong,sometimes it has to be done in order to progress..Personally i´d like to hear bit of Acid House and `Progressive Electrohouse Synthesis`influences,could very well work together being combined with f´n avin it Acid Techno .

[Si the Sigh]

Going back to the basics can´t be wrong,sometimes it has to be done in order to progress..Personally i´d like to hear bit of Acid House and `Progressive Electrohouse Synthesis`influences,could very well work together being combined with f´n avin it Acid Techno .

Which is exactly what people into techno are saying about the whole minimal techno thing isn't it?

[Si the Sigh]

Most recent example of a track with fu*k loads of impact, but seriously sparce and minimal when you listen is A.P and Griff's "Watch what happens..." on Maximum Minimum. (http://www.discogs.com/release/811945)

Take a listen: http://www.bangingtunes.com/play/maxmin53/b/

Utterly superb, minimal, old skool sounding but with up to the minute production. It's almost like a modern update of a classic Guy McAffer style that he used on Intensiv quite a lot. Dig these out:

http://www.discogs.com/release/55842
http://www.discogs.com/release/55827
http://www.discogs.com/release/55841

[Si the Sigh]

Just realised that sample isn't the best to be honest, as it's pretty much in the break already, but you get the idea.

[NIKCAM]

This is going to to deal with the whole direction of acid techno and not just the minimal question posed above. (Sorry if it comes across as a rant but its stuff I'd like to say)

There doesn't seem to be much experimentation happening anymore in terms of arrangement and how a tune builds. For me the most attractive element of acid techno 10 years ago was that you didn't know what was coming next from a particular producer or label, and this kept it exciting and progressive. You don't get that as much anymore, and I miss it. The majority of releases now will stick to a particular format - the track may be v. good, but you feel that you've heard it before and that takes away from the experience.

There needs to be more innovation, more risk taking. It may not work or catch on instantly but at least there would be a new freshness about how producers approach the act of music making. Maybe minimal is the way to go, but theres no point in everybody making a standardised form of minimal acid techno or else you'll fall into the same trap. Ask yourself what you mean by minimal and is that really what you want to make or hear. Personally, I'd like to see more funk and progression.

I wouldn't put all the onus on the guys and girls that make the music either. Those of us who buy the music and support it could also be less demanding in terms of what we expect from them, i.e. acid/techno with a certain sound and feel that harks back to glory days. I'm sure that producers want to experiment with styles and not just stick to the same thing - take Dave the Drummer and his new Mutate to Survive project, I;m sure hes not just doing this so that he can make music that will sell well and therefore pay the bills, but because he wants to do this style aswell, and fair play to him fo it. Don't forget that he had a life in music before techno.

I believe that the vast majority of those who have ever contributed to the making of this music have done so because they love it themselves and want to see it go on and attract new people. They don't make a fortune out of it, perhaps a living, but they have put the time, money and effort in over the years to earn that. And along the way the have given us music that we love and will always be part of our lives.

Sorry if that veered off a bit or if it didn't make sense - Had a lot of coffee today.

[hypothalamus]

one word...

KEEP IT REAL!!

[NIKCAM]

one word...

KEEP IT REAL!!

Exactly...thats what I meant to say

[Si the Sigh]

one word...

KEEP IT REAL!!

Explain some more. What do you mean? I'm interested in what you mean by that.

[xes]

that's 3 :grr:

[Si the Sigh]

that's 3 :grr:

Easy Mr Mod...

[xes]

Easy Mr Mod...

:cheese:


*cracks whip*


With reguards to the question. I don't know. I mean,do we have to go backwards to move forwards? I'd like to think not,but then,the acid techno from years gone by was fantastic,and I'd love to hear some new stuff with a simular flavour. The formula that we have at the moment in the London scene is getting rather samey,you know what's coming next,and whilst you know it's going to rock,it does get old fast.

I just wish I knew how to make it,cos I reckon my brain pressed on plastic would be rocking.

[Si the Sigh]

:cheese:


*cracks whip*


With reguards to the question. I don't know. I mean,do we have to go backwards to move forwards? I'd like to think not,but then,the acid techno from years gone by was fantastic,and I'd love to hear some new stuff with a simular flavour. The formula that we have at the moment in the London scene is getting rather samey,you know what's coming next,and whilst you know it's going to rock,it does get old fast.

I just wish I knew how to make it,cos I reckon my brain pressed on plastic would be rocking.

Not backwards as such, but take the old ideas forward. Instead of cluttered loops for example, strip them back, make them more minimal, more space between sounds. A simple idea like that would give it that older classic feel IMO. I'm not asking for another 'The Rabbit's Name Was' or any thing like that, I just want the UK acid techno to get it's identity back. Think what made it in the first place instead of clutching on to the hard dance scene and trying to muscle in there.

I really hope Henry comes on here and sees this, so he can say what he told me about trying to use software as if it was hardware. He had a great point when I spoke to him, but I don't want to say anything about it in case I get it wrong.

Another thing I feel I have to be say, and I mean this with absolutely no offence and this is only my opinion,there are too many producers bringing out tracks in a similar style IMO. Take some of the guys from the FAT Collective, and Rhythmtech They are making great tracks, but I really believe if you didn't know who was behind them you'd say they sound like a DAVE the Drummer release, or Alex Calver. Which, is a great compliment, a superb compliment that these guys can get sounds that fat out of their machines.

I really liked Rhythmtech's acid tracks he posted up here a while back. They all sounded superb, filling the gap that someone like DDR (who we don't hear enough of) used to supply. Great stuff. But where are these tracks? Why are they not out there on vinyl or digital release? I WANT THOSE TUNES!! Old skool vibe, upto the minute production. Nice! :)

Just realised I'm waffling now, so I'm going to make a cup of tea, then pop back to empty my brain some more...

[Si the Sigh]

God you lot must think I'm a right miserable moaning cunt...

*sits back down in his rocking chair mumbling*

[NIKCAM]

Are you into production Si? If so, would love to hear anything you've done.

[Si the Sigh]

Are you into production Si? If so, would love to hear anything you've done.

I've done one track so far. I'll upload it again so that if anyone likes it they can have it. :)

[christian wagner]

I think the whole "Minimal" tag is a bit of the wrong word to use Si, id just say "simple" because Minimal is a style which people will get confused by - "minimal acid techno"?? more pigeon-hole-ing..

I think if the percussion was simpler, but not just a 909 / 808 kit, that would be halfway towards the sound your after.

Theres thousends, nay..Millions of drum kits to be used in tracks, so thats an option to consider.

A few loops maybe, but not obvious..

I very much agree with the use of more Eerie de-tuned synths and FX, thats one elements which is missing, that and a nice analogue bass melody :D

[Si the Sigh]

I think the whole "Minimal" tag is a bit of the wrong word to use Si, id just say "simple" because Minimal is a style which people will get confused by

Yea, your right, I see what you mean. More simple, back to basics.

[NIKCAM]

I've done one track so far. I'll upload it again so that if anyone likes it they can have it. :)

Good man