McLaren Fined - Drivers OK

**TechMouse** · 13-09-2007, 08:21 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/6991147.stm

Seems a bit harsh, but will reserve judgement until friday.

**Aratron** · 13-09-2007, 08:24 PM

i find it all a bit bizarre really

i mean it's hardly the olympics is it.

just a bunch of corporate monsters involved in destroying the planet, and get getting cheered along in the process.

that aside i think it is a fair judgement , although i suspect Ferrari set them up in the first place.

**TechMouse** · 13-09-2007, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Aratron

i find it all a bit bizarre really

i mean it's hardly the olympics is it.

Well, no.

But then neither is any sporting event other than the Olympics.

Originally Posted by Aratron

just a bunch of corporate monsters involved in destroying the planet, and get getting cheered along in the process.

Funnily enough I tend to think the opposite.

So much good technology comes out of formula one, especially with respect to fuel efficiency and such. The knock on effect in consumer vehicles is probably pretty positive. Counter intuitive, but there you go. Plus the negative impact pales in comparison to say, air travel.

Originally Posted by Aratron

that aside i think it is a fair judgement , although i suspect Ferrari set them up in the first place.

Meh, not sure.

Based on current info, it looks like two engineers were stupid and Ferrari has tried to play it to their advantage. But the full findings aren't out till friday, so as I say: reserving judgement.

**Miss Saysay** · 13-09-2007, 08:59 PM

Thats one hell of a fine! :o

So are the drivers allowed to race and continue with the championship title?

**Richierush** · 13-09-2007, 11:23 PM

Ferrari set up all day,trust somethin like this to happen when we have a hamilton an english man doin well since damon hill takes the glory out of things:whoops:

**Numeric** · 13-09-2007, 11:24 PM

yeah the drivers escaped punishment and can still challenge...

but the team's losing it's constructors points

**TechMouse** · 14-09-2007, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Miss Saysay

Thats one hell of a fine! :o

Pocket money for McLaren though.

Have a google about for Ron Dennis, see how much he earns.

And he only owns 30%.

Originally Posted by Miss Saysay

So are the drivers allowed to race and continue with the championship title?

Apparently so.

All seems a bit contradictory at the moment.

On the one hand they're laying some fairly vicious punishment on the team, which implies they have done something wrong and gained an advantage, but on the other they're not penalising the drivers which seems odd if they have an unfair advantage.

Doesn't make sense at all.

**Numeric** · 14-09-2007, 11:04 AM

the drivers may not have even been aware of the spying...

**phantomdj** · 14-09-2007, 11:08 AM

Ferrari set-up? Are you kidding?

Why on earth would Ferrari give their technical data away for a set-up?

The conspiracy was against Ferrari - clearly with sour grapes.

Ron admitted he knew about the data long before the whistle blower gave the knowledge to Ferrari...Other things seem to be surfacing more and more.

Let's be clear on this - Ferrari found out from a leak, not via Mclaren

So it's like Ferrari have said - if they were not informed about the leak, then how much longer would it have been kept hidden? Would Ron etc have come out and admitted it? Would the information be used? I think it's rather naive to suggest it was not looked at. The fact is that Mclaren had in their possession the full SP of Ferrari's technical data and something is definitely up with that.

Something must be done to make an example of espionage. It's Ok blaming individuals, but we never know what goes on behind the scenes. Something terrible went on and we will only hear what was unable to be kept hidden.

In Italy, their will be Ferrari bias in the media - over here, Ferrari bashing...

So be careful about whose analysis you read and how much bearing it has on the truth, which admittedly we will all be speculating because only a very few will know the full truth.

**Craig_Lea** · 13-09-2007, 11:55 PM

Seems very harsh, especially if they didn't actually prove McLaren used the information to their advantage.

At least Hamilton gets to retain his points.
4 races left, it's going to be close.
Best season for the last few years I reckon, despite the spygate nonsense.

**eyeswithoutaface** · 14-09-2007, 11:12 AM

apparently it was proved that they DIDNT use any of the leaked technology, they had investigators in the pit checking the cars at last weeks race.

and i'd say the fine is alot more important than some people think, regardless of Ron Dennis's earnings, the costs are going to add up, and McLaren will more than feel the pinch. Winning the constructors championship alone brings in 100m, and they pay their drivers out of this money too its claimed. So already they are getting fined 50 million pound, have lost the chance to gain a potential 100m at the end of the season (and lets face it they had a brilliant chance of winning that) and also they have to find another 30 million to pay their drivers now, plus the fact all this bad publicity may have a knock on effect with their sponsors and future sponsors, its certainly not looking good, and i dont think Ron Dennis will personally foot the bill, regardless of how much he earns.

This really is not good for McLaren, and there is still talk of not allowing them to take part in the championship for 2 seasons after this season has finished, which would probably put them out of business

madness. I do think there is something we are not being told though, because similiar cases have been totally ignored by the F1 body in the past whilst still making it to court, there was incident with Toyota a couple of years ago that went to court but they didnt get punished at all.

have to wait and see innit

**Esox Lucius** · 14-09-2007, 12:00 PM

load of shite anyway f1. watching cars go round a track wow

**eyeswithoutaface** · 14-09-2007, 12:51 PM

yeah gotta admit my love for F1 died a death years ago

**TechMouse** · 14-09-2007, 12:56 PM

I used to love it when I was a kid, went off it for a while, but I'm quite enjoying it again now.

It's perfect lazy sunday afternoon fodder.

**Numeric** · 14-09-2007, 01:12 PM

this season has been much better, lost interest myself for a few years...

**Esox Lucius** · 14-09-2007, 01:20 PM

i do like watching the rallying though

**phantomdj** · 14-09-2007, 03:18 PM

watching schumi win title after title was great....

legend

**TechMouse** · 14-09-2007, 03:19 PM

Superbikes have been pretty interesting this year.

Loads of politics there as well.

**phantomdj** · 14-09-2007, 06:08 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/6995594.stm

All that bull about Ron being an honest man and all that saying none of the engineers (140-170?) of them knew nothing about the information, yet the drivers were talking about it ....

the guy is a joke and the bags under his eyes tell a more honest story.

**phantomdj** · 15-09-2007, 08:31 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/6996485.stm

update on the issue....

But Mosley told the BBC: "It's absurd to say it's unfair or disproportionate.

"When the history of this gets to be written, it may be that what we will be reproached for is doing too little."

McLaren were punished on Thursday after the World Motor Sport Council decided new evidence proved the Ferrari data had been used by the British-based team.

Earlier on Saturday, McLaren boss Ron Dennis insisted his team could take "the hit" but that it was "disproportionate to the reality of the situation".

But Mosley added: "It's actually a very modest penalty indeed. It is less than the difference between the McLaren budget and that of Williams or Renault and several other teams. So it's a very minor punishment as such.

"McLaren were extremely lucky that we didn't quite simply say: 'You have polluted the championship in 2007 and you've probably polluted it in 2008 because we've no way of knowing what information you're using for what in your 2007/2008 car.'"

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