minimal minimal everywhere minimal.

[The Overfiend]

There are some of us who are actively doing our part to continue on the sound which is what you would consider the middle ground.
Anx I feel your pain, and I even agree with you, but I hate to say at the end of the day the only thing you could do is seek further into the past or look harder for the artists that are doing it now.

Damaged Trax
Concrete Djz
Hardsignal
Blackout Audio
Glenn Wilson
Mike Humphries and Mastertraxx
most of the labels on Triple Vision
The F.A.T. Collective
Jon Nuccle
Cave
Zeitgeist is coming to hurt you all
Kay D. Smith and Jon Connor are still cooking up treats as well.
It's out there but to be honest some of the purveyors of it are waning because they think people don't want it anymore.

[eyeswithoutaface]

There are some of us who are actively doing our part to continue on the sound which is what you would consider the middle ground.
Anx I feel your pain, and I even agree with you, but I hate to say at the end of the day the only thing you could do is seek further into the past or look harder for the artists that are doing it now.

Damaged Trax
Concrete Djz
Hardsignal
Blackout Audio
Glenn Wilson
Mike Humphries and Mastertraxx
most of the labels on Triple Vision
The F.A.T. Collective
Jon Nuccle
Cave
Zeitgeist is coming to hurt you all
Kay D. Smith and Jon Connor are still cooking up treats as well.
It's out there but to be honest some of the purveyors of it are waning because they think people don't want it anymore.

i havent heard any releases from Jon in a couple of years now, but Kay D is still smashing it. I still listen to "Heatflash" regulary, best thing he's done i think. I have to agree though i do think older techno has the edge on the whole, classic labels like Red Seal i personally find you just dont get that edge with the newer hard tech labels, i mean i havent heard anything as damaging as "Nervehammer (forshaw remix)" or anything like the "Wolfman Jack" remix ep in years now, truely hard, thundering techno

your right Tony there is still alot of people doing the middle ground/hard techno sound i dont know what people are worried about. If anything there are just as many, if not more, people doing hard techno. It's all about perception and how hard people are willing to look for what they want, some people just want everything laid out on a plate for them whilst some are happy to get digging in and look, which is when you find most gems.

[Microdot]

There are some of us who are actively doing our part to continue on the sound which is what you would consider the middle ground.
Anx I feel your pain, and I even agree with you, but I hate to say at the end of the day the only thing you could do is seek further into the past or look harder for the artists that are doing it now.

Damaged Trax
Concrete Djz
Hardsignal
Blackout Audio
Glenn Wilson
Mike Humphries and Mastertraxx
most of the labels on Triple Vision
The F.A.T. Collective
Jon Nuccle
Cave
Zeitgeist is coming to hurt you all
Kay D. Smith and Jon Connor are still cooking up treats as well.
It's out there but to be honest some of the purveyors of it are waning because they think people don't want it anymore.

word. ppl loving the Red Seal sound need to keep an eye out for Player 029, dropping this November, a thunderous 4 tracker produced by Nuccle and Ignition Technician.

[dirty_bass]

word. ppl loving the Red Seal sound need to keep an eye out for Player 029, dropping this November, a thunderous 4 tracker produced by Nuccle and Ignition Technician.

Word to that. would be lovely to see some more Nuccle business.

We don`t need more hard techno, there`s enough amateur hard techno being churned out now by the one-year-on-fruity-and-now-I`m-due-a-release-squad now that all the decent producers are making minimal.
What we need is quality producers making qaulity techno techno, and the harder edge of it.
I think less releases but more quality stuff is needed to take techno out of the rather embarassing poor average standard it has reached.

Overall the production standards of techno seem to be the worst in dance music, when taken as an average. This never used to be so

[Mucky Beats]

i as many im sure have changed my opinion on the minmal thing... at first i was like wow all this minimal bollocks seemed to infect the world and the big producers shifted to it ...i thought due to the money and fame in it and i was also pissed off with everyother tune in juno being some minimal number or another! but then with time i have seen the minimal thing for what it is a form of techno that has its place in the sceane and is bringing people over to techno in a big way... also having bought a bit and mixed it out have seen how the well produced stuff is really quite cool and can be "banginig" in its own way.... shit 6 months ago i would of laughed at someone saying this.... truth is those who love harder stuf i.e. people like me will always do so and that will never change... just as techno people we should embrace new forms and not push them away as in truth we are gettin smaller by doing so and if we embrace as the rest of mainland europe seems to be we can be bigger and have a true diverse sound. shit i could be wrong just minimal has been round since day one just now it is expanding and taking a lead form and now after much thought i feel its good not bad.

one thing as with all music there is bad djs and rubbish tunes... and this is very true in the minimal world ...but also is it not in the harder scene?

[Microdot]

i as many im sure have changed my opinion on the minmal thing... at first i was like wow all this minimal bollocks seemed to infect the world and the big producers shifted to it ...i thought due to the money and fame in it and i was also pissed off with everyother tune in juno being some minimal number or another! but then with time i have seen the minimal thing for what it is a form of techno that has its place in the sceane and is bringing people over to techno in a big way... also having bought a bit and mixed it out have seen how the well produced stuff is really quite cool and can be "banginig" in its own way.... shit 6 months ago i would of laughed at someone saying this.... truth is those who love harder stuf i.e. people like me will always do so and that will never change... just as techno people we should embrace new forms and not push them away as in truth we are gettin smaller by doing so and if we embrace as the rest of mainland europe seems to be we can be bigger and have a true diverse sound. shit i could be wrong just minimal has been round since day one just now it is expanding and taking a lead form and now after much thought i feel its good not bad.

one thing as with all music there is bad djs and rubbish tunes... and this is very true in the minimal world ...but also is it not in the harder scene?

word. quality minimal techno has been around for years. DJ Hell's totmacher, substance abuse, traintrax etc by FUSE, alien phreak by DBX, moveable parts ep and countless other trax by Rob Hood.
personally, I've no problem with minimal techno at all, been playing it in me sets since 91.
I can see the reasoning behind the bpms coming down too.
doesn't stop Richie Hawtin being a bellend though.

[Mucky Beats]

word. quality minimal techno has been around for years. DJ Hell's totmacher, substance abuse, traintrax etc by FUSE, alien phreak by DBX, moveable parts ep and countless other trax by Rob Hood.
personally, I've no problem with minimal techno at all, been playing it in me sets since 91.
I can see the reasoning behind the bpms coming down too.
doesn't stop Richie Hawtin being a bellend though.

TOO RIGHT....AND YES SVEN AND RICHIE ARE FAR TO FRUITY FOR THERE OWN GOOD HAHAHA.....ANYONE SEEN THAT STRANGE UNICORN CARTOON PEOPLE SAY THEY DID??

[The Overfiend]

We don`t need more hard techno, there`s enough amateur hard techno being churned out now by the one-year-on-fruity-and-now-I`m-due-a-release-squad now that all the decent producers are making minimal.
What we need is quality producers making qaulity techno techno, and the harder edge of it.
I think less releases but more quality stuff is needed to take techno out of the rather embarassing poor average standard it has reached.

Overall the production standards of techno seem to be the worst in dance music, when taken as an average. This never used to be so

Who do you mean? For example.

[module]

Word to that. would be lovely to see some more Nuccle business.

We don`t need more hard techno, there`s enough amateur hard techno being churned out now by the one-year-on-fruity-and-now-I`m-due-a-release-squad now that all the decent producers are making minimal.
What we need is quality producers making qaulity techno techno, and the harder edge of it.
I think less releases but more quality stuff is needed to take techno out of the rather embarassing poor average standard it has reached.

Overall the production standards of techno seem to be the worst in dance music, when taken as an average. This never used to be so

maybe your standards have risen ?

[dirty_bass]

maybe your standards have risen ?

Not really, back when I was a DJ, I went for good tunes, and always picked the better sounding stuff.

Look back.

Cold Dust
Wilson
Skoog
Henrik B
Henze
Laidback Luke
Beyer
Misjah
Hertz
Bacto
etc

Tuff mid range techno, but the production rocked. It was pro.
All these guys put out stuff that production wise was comparable to house which has always had more money behind it, and a lot of big studio productions.
It meant techno had a standard, on average, that was pretty good. The guys making it, regardless of big money support or not, really did know their stuff, and kept the bar at a good level.

Now we have all the big hitters (well, most, some still fly the flag), doing the minimal thing. Nothing wrong with that.
But in the mid range sound of techno, we have labels run by people who haven`t yet reached the above standard, getting tracks in by people way below that standard.

The quality control is shot to ****.

Too many people making music "in machine" with software.
Now I`m an advocate of software, but you need some knowledge of the old school, phat, hardware sound, to be able to reproduce it with the new tech.
A lot of these guys have been bashing on whatever DAW they picked up last year, and end up with a substandard product because they have never experienced, or had the knowledge (or spent the time to find out) of how things sounded when put through proper gear.

I still listen to everything.

Drum and bass, tired or not, still has a good standard. Now they have the dubplate culture, and a good healthy pecking order where the shit that doesn`t hit the mark gets cussed down real quick, so things remain fairly constant with them.

House, still at a high standard, there`s still a lot of pro studio stuff coming out keeping the bar high for everyone to shoot for.

Dubstep is almost all about the quality by it`s nature, so no probs there.

Breaks again, now very closely intertwined with house still has a good average standard.

Hip hop/R&B etc obviously more money behind it, so there`s a lot of serious studio money keeping average standards up.

Now techno, apart from minimal, where standards are kept pretty high on average, is falling down into the amateur lands of gabba, hardcore etc. Which as a more rough and ready music has always been a bit of a mess overall.

I mean, production isn`t everything, obviously.
1st and foremost, you have to make a damn good tune.
But with so many people now having access to the means to make music, the bar should be getting higher, with the want to separate yourself from the quagmire (a-giggety-giggety-giggety), by spitting and shining till the cows come home.

I think there`s still good pro stuff coming out in the mid range techno area, Audio Assault for example, seem to have good quality control, but overall the average in this area of techno has dropped.

Rick rubin has a good philosophy on quality control. I think his avergae is from every artist, when they present him with music, he will take 1 in 10 tracks from them on average, then tell them to go back and make more music.

Anyway, that`s my 10 pence worth.
Gimme a sec to put on my rain hat before you shit on it.

[Split-Personality]

Especially the point about the inherent attitude in DnB lending itself to quality control, I use to be well into my DnB. But when I hear it now I cant help but chuckle to myself thinking it got cheesy and none of the "rude-boyz" noticed.

Also interesing how music production software coupled with the instant exchange platform that is the internet gives rise to the birth and indeed the discovery of new talent, but brings with it waves of poor quality unimaginitive music.

So pro's and con's as with all things in life, gentlemen its out there if your willing to wade through it.