RUMOUR: Amato have gone bust

[RDR]

I'm a bit lost, what are you saying?

2000 records is NOTHING in terms of sales, not set against other genres of music.

[Sunil]

2000 records is NOTHING in terms of sales, not set against other genres of music.

What are you getting at here? I don't get your point, I don't see any relevance to what you're saying actually. Something to do with 2,000 or so not being good (in comparison to ther genres) sales figures? 2,000 + is good for any electronic label in this day and age. Maybe you and people like Dirty Bass want to continue telling people where 'we' are headed and how grim things are (I don't know?)...continue on if you like, I hope people are listening to you and making you feel right.

[RDR]

What are you getting at here? I don't get your point, I don't see any relevance to what you're saying actually. Something to do with 2,000 or so not being good (in comparison to ther genres) sales figures? 2,000 + is good for any electronic label in this day and age. Maybe you and people like Dirty Bass want to continue telling people where 'we' are headed and how grim things are (I don't know?)...continue on if you like, I hope people are listening to you and making you feel right.

So you cant see the correlation between low sales figures and the topic of this thread?

2,000 + is good for any electronic label in this day and age.

Im sure it is. But how many sales does the average label in ANY genre make?

...continue on if you like

.. ok, now that you've said i can, its made it better.

I hope people are listening to you and making you feel right.

**** me for analysing how things are going, i wasnt aware that i wasnt allowed to do that mate.

FFS wind your neck in. If you have a personal beef with me then by all means go onto PMs, I guess the same goes for DB. Public slanging matches are pretty sordid.

[Sunil]

So you cant see the correlation between low sales figures and the topic of this thread?

The figure mentioned was 2,000. This isn't low.

FFS wind your neck in. If you have a personal beef with me then by all means go onto PMs, I guess the same goes for DB. Public slanging matches are pretty sordid.

It's not public slanging. You put out your opinion here as does DB, and what I'm saying is that contrary to what you might think, there is no gospel word around here... Some of the opinions here are just plain ignorant, speaking about harder edged techno or the styles more popular on BOA as if that's the whole techno scene or something. The usual 'we' , 'us' and "when will we ever learn?" type crap. It's ridiculous. A couple of people thinking they're leading the herd on BOA, when half of it is just horseshite.

[massplanck]

I'm sick of digital. For the first time in 2 years im buying vinyl again. By the bucket load.

[massplanck]

Some minimal records are selling 4000+ I hear. I dont understand people who think techno sales is all about the hard techno/party bangers. People are sick of this shit.


When UR go bust ill start worrying.

[RDR]

The figure mentioned was 2,000. This isn't low.

For techno maybe.

You put out your opinion here as does DB, and what I'm saying is that contrary to what you might think, there is no gospel word around here... Some of the opinions here are just plain ignorant, speaking about harder edged techno or the styles more popular on BOA as if that's the whole techno scene or something. The usual 'we' , 'us' and "when will we ever learn?" type crap. It's ridiculous.

Im just trying to find my way through this rickety business, and how else to do that than to converse with people like yourself. For the record, id rather discuss what myself and others are trying to do than keep quiet.

And whats this about WE or OUR? Thats not the same thing as what im talking about is it?

A couple of people thinking they're leading the herd on BOA, when half of it is just horseshite.

And who's that then?

If you mean ME then..

Try talking to me first

here is my MSN, feel free. Im not gonna be arsey with you.

thornton_x (at) hotmail (dot) com

[RDR]

I'm sick of digital. For the first time in 2 years im buying vinyl again. By the bucket load.

The funny thing is I love vinyl loads...

one of my goals in life was to have a vinyl release.

[Louk]

not good news at all, i heard whispers another one (which owes me money) is facing troubles, i hope it's not true

Louk

[Si the Sigh]

You can't just leave it there Louk... :)

[Louk]

indeed mate chasing up an invoice is never a fun thing

[RDR]

You can't just leave it there Louk... :)

agreed!!!

[Louk]

wait and see, they owe a fair few of my friends payments too and i want to see if anything happens before naming names.

[dirty_bass]

I think Sunil is on his period.

Opinions are just that, opinions, no real need to bring on lady blood in your panties though, I think it`s that ranty time of the year again.

Sure vinyl is doing well, OVERALL, thanks to the amount of new rock being pressed on 7`s.

And minimal is doing well (but is it even techno, I think it`s house for people who don`t like to admit they like house).

But
With the amount of distributers and record shops collapsing in the last few years (hey folks, ELP has gone too now by the way), you`d have to be crazy-aid-bonkers to think everything is just rosey dosey posey.

Unless of course, you`ve just started a record label, in which case you probably want to believe that everything is great, otherwise the alternative is far too depressing.

It`s techno, we are all insanely committed to this damn music, so vinyl sales or not, it won`t (or shoudln`t) stop any of us from making it, talking about it, childishly fighting about it on forums, voicing our opinions, making exceedingly loud noise, investing worrying amounts of money on kit etc.

the music is long out of fashion, and yet here we all are, still talking about it, so that must mean something right?

We don`t have to all agree with each others opinions to get along though, nobody likes a nodding dog, there`s nothing wrong with disagreeing with each other. It doesn`t mean we have to be enemies.

[theledge]

As for other techno labels - there are many people who are regularly selling out of 500+ presses.

Unfortunately 500 releases doesn't even cover the cost of pressing the record in the first place, as I'm sure you're well aware. It's peanuts sales - even if a lot of labels run at a slight loss, I'm not remotely surprised distributors are going under left right and centre when 500 copies is considered a success.

Continuing with vinyl just means that most labels are even more unwilling than usual to risk putting out music which is different, goes against the grain, might not sell....and at the moment that means everything is minimal. I agree with dirty bass on this, most of it doesn't feel much like techno to me either...

I love vinyl, and I love playing it, but the future is with us already and there's very little doubt its digital...

[davethedrummer]

of course the future is digital
there's no competition for it's sheer accessability

but vinyl is special

also you must remember that amato were selling a lot of different types of music
mainly house and commercial really

so if they've gone down after " shaking hands with the man "

what does that say to us?

[eyeswithoutaface]

some strange views here i think

to me personally, sales of 2000 is bloody brilliant when i take into account who i am, where i am and what im doing. Regardless of if its a techno record, if its a minimal record etc etc i know people with house labels that get cained by all the top house boys, but only a couple of these labels have had sales of 2000 or more, and none of them hit that regulary.

what alot of people forget is that alot of the trouble with poor sales isnt JUST down to that fact that not as many people are not buying as many records in the electronic scene as previous years, but it is infact down alot of the time to promotion. I could only name a handful of techno labels who really go to town with their promotion, and i could name hundreds who dont. You've got to get your record releases down to a nice package, something you can and actually do promote to the record buying public. There are simply too many people starting labels practically every week to sustain the market anyway, but also alot of these labels think you can just register with Juno and your away, which is not the case at all.

Too many amateur ran labels who, unfortunately, crash and burn when they realise that whilst they feel they deserve to be at least breaking even, they are infact not even doing that, and its just simply not fair to put the blame entirely on the people buying the records.

Record sales in 7, 10 and 12" formats in the rock/indie scene are indeed rising, and why do people think this is? along with the obviously bigger market, its the obviously better promotion and marketing. There is a correlation that i think alot of people need to realise. And before someone says "well they've got big budgets", that's true of course, but good promotion doesnt always mean throwing alot of money at something. Just offer the punter something that looks and actually is a professional product from the start, and i think people would notice the difference.

There are still some really big and really credible labels in techno and the electronic music scene, and they are the big labels for a reason, because from the start they've meant business, they've come up with something solid and professional, instead of the number of amateur ran labels techno seems to be swimming with more so than any other genre at the moment

What's needed is a joint effort, where people embrace the future whilst still retaining the past

[lunatrick]

here's a link to ritchie hawtins mixmag interview :-

http://infinitestatemachine.com/wp-c...chiehawtin.pdf

some if it is the usual waffle about the future but near the end he makes an interesting point about how his label minus is paying out more royalties than ever i.e more sales than ever because of digital downloads......ok they are probably one of the most famous labels and perhaps getting more and more so......but I agree with eyes - this is because they are serious and professional - they saw what was coming and adapted to it and sell a quality product....it's just called running a business, any business, and a lot of the smaller players just don't seem to get that.....if I was going to start a label now I would get a shit hot website and hit the digital distributors hard, and perhaps just do small limited edition collectable vinyl releases with quality artwork and packaging.

[Sunil]

I think Sunil is on his period.

I think it's easy to get your period when you read some of the stuff on here :)
I dunno, you speak in a very assured tone about certain things, particularly the digital/vinyl thing; but all you base it on really, is clubby techno or hard techno.. which is not where sales are at all right now. I think that the opinions expressed here are very insular, they just refer to one part of the techno scene, and that's before you've even got to electro, hardcore, d n'b, whatever else that comes close to the fringes of techno.

I mean what about the recent revival of deeper techno or the eps from Deepchord, Andy Stott and co? That sells very well. And a year or two ago many of the ‘deep’ heads didn't know what the future held. People buy these records because they are making an investment for the future; they're picking up quality music that will stand up in a few years time and may still be talked about. The next Euro techno 12” for instance, will not be though. Minimal etc. has spawned a techno media that favour slightly less intense music, and indeed many club records now need to qualify as listening techno records too. I'm not saying that I think a lot of minimal is good, I think a lot of it is nothing, but techno definitely came under a new type of scrutiny over the last few years, and the tougher or Euro stuff for the most part, got spat out. Anyway, I don't need to tell you that obviously, it's the reason we are having this discussion!

Last month UR were on the cover of Wire magazine;WE (if we're going to be a community for a second then) should honestly be seeing that as a victory for techno. Sure, UR make different stuff sometimes, but their approach is techno through and through, and when I saw Interstellar Fugitives play a few weeks ago they were awesome.. the real deal. Anyway, many are now taking note of UR again, and even if it is just over a BLT on their lunchbreak for 15 minutes somewhere, it still helps. Last month it's UR, a few months down the line it could be Surgeon and Regis, who knows? The media is still very important, and while this is probably for another thread entirely I think people should be reminded again what absolute jewels in the crown of techno Surgeon and Regis are; they are still in a position to steer the good stuff back onto the agenda in a bigger way again.

Thing is, I think there are a lot of wicked producers around, yourself included Steve, who might not be far away from infiltrating the techno or electronic music world as much as is deserved. Maybe I'm off the mark when I say this, but I am convinced that much of the people making good stuff who fell off the train or who can't quite make it onto it, are those who make bad choices or trust the wrong people. I'm not suggesting that you have not put yourself on the map Steve, but when you are on this crusade towards digital I just think it's ludicrous. If you honestly think that techno is a world better confined to digital releases, then I think that's a bit unfortunate.

Ultimately, I think my main gripe or point is that we all live in different scenes. When I come onto BOA I see stuff flying around and it's as if the general consensus is that this forum is where techno begins and ends. There is no one techno scene, so therefore there's no one foregone conclusion to how ALL of this is going to go. When I see all the summing up observations of how it is and is going to be (especially in terms of music formats) I just can't relate to it as it's not true to my world at all; using Serato etc. or a laptop to DJ never has to happen if I don't want it to, so how has someone else already decided my fate for me? Some of the predictions going on are extraordinary, I think some of you need to hold your horses and stop gazing into the crystal balls all the time… it’s pointless.

Me personally I get by on records old and new, and with a lot of stuff that isn't techno as well; I still buy and play it on vinyl and I don't see that changing. The same applies to so many other people. I may have freaked out a bit here but hopefully I've added a bit of balance to this ongoing debate!

[massplanck]

"using Serato etc. or a laptop to DJ never has to happen if I don't want it to"


Sunil for Dictator.