RUMOUR: Amato have gone bust

[massplanck]

Some minimal records are selling 4000+ I hear. I dont understand people who think techno sales is all about the hard techno/party bangers. People are sick of this shit.


When UR go bust ill start worrying.

[Louk]

not good news at all, i heard whispers another one (which owes me money) is facing troubles, i hope it's not true

Louk

[Si the Sigh]

You can't just leave it there Louk... :)

[RDR]

You can't just leave it there Louk... :)

agreed!!!

[Louk]

indeed mate chasing up an invoice is never a fun thing

[Louk]

wait and see, they owe a fair few of my friends payments too and i want to see if anything happens before naming names.

[dirty_bass]

I think Sunil is on his period.

Opinions are just that, opinions, no real need to bring on lady blood in your panties though, I think it`s that ranty time of the year again.

Sure vinyl is doing well, OVERALL, thanks to the amount of new rock being pressed on 7`s.

And minimal is doing well (but is it even techno, I think it`s house for people who don`t like to admit they like house).

But
With the amount of distributers and record shops collapsing in the last few years (hey folks, ELP has gone too now by the way), you`d have to be crazy-aid-bonkers to think everything is just rosey dosey posey.

Unless of course, you`ve just started a record label, in which case you probably want to believe that everything is great, otherwise the alternative is far too depressing.

It`s techno, we are all insanely committed to this damn music, so vinyl sales or not, it won`t (or shoudln`t) stop any of us from making it, talking about it, childishly fighting about it on forums, voicing our opinions, making exceedingly loud noise, investing worrying amounts of money on kit etc.

the music is long out of fashion, and yet here we all are, still talking about it, so that must mean something right?

We don`t have to all agree with each others opinions to get along though, nobody likes a nodding dog, there`s nothing wrong with disagreeing with each other. It doesn`t mean we have to be enemies.

[theledge]

As for other techno labels - there are many people who are regularly selling out of 500+ presses.

Unfortunately 500 releases doesn't even cover the cost of pressing the record in the first place, as I'm sure you're well aware. It's peanuts sales - even if a lot of labels run at a slight loss, I'm not remotely surprised distributors are going under left right and centre when 500 copies is considered a success.

Continuing with vinyl just means that most labels are even more unwilling than usual to risk putting out music which is different, goes against the grain, might not sell....and at the moment that means everything is minimal. I agree with dirty bass on this, most of it doesn't feel much like techno to me either...

I love vinyl, and I love playing it, but the future is with us already and there's very little doubt its digital...

[davethedrummer]

of course the future is digital
there's no competition for it's sheer accessability

but vinyl is special

also you must remember that amato were selling a lot of different types of music
mainly house and commercial really

so if they've gone down after " shaking hands with the man "

what does that say to us?

[Sunil]

I think Sunil is on his period.

I think it's easy to get your period when you read some of the stuff on here :)
I dunno, you speak in a very assured tone about certain things, particularly the digital/vinyl thing; but all you base it on really, is clubby techno or hard techno.. which is not where sales are at all right now. I think that the opinions expressed here are very insular, they just refer to one part of the techno scene, and that's before you've even got to electro, hardcore, d n'b, whatever else that comes close to the fringes of techno.

I mean what about the recent revival of deeper techno or the eps from Deepchord, Andy Stott and co? That sells very well. And a year or two ago many of the ‘deep’ heads didn't know what the future held. People buy these records because they are making an investment for the future; they're picking up quality music that will stand up in a few years time and may still be talked about. The next Euro techno 12” for instance, will not be though. Minimal etc. has spawned a techno media that favour slightly less intense music, and indeed many club records now need to qualify as listening techno records too. I'm not saying that I think a lot of minimal is good, I think a lot of it is nothing, but techno definitely came under a new type of scrutiny over the last few years, and the tougher or Euro stuff for the most part, got spat out. Anyway, I don't need to tell you that obviously, it's the reason we are having this discussion!

Last month UR were on the cover of Wire magazine;WE (if we're going to be a community for a second then) should honestly be seeing that as a victory for techno. Sure, UR make different stuff sometimes, but their approach is techno through and through, and when I saw Interstellar Fugitives play a few weeks ago they were awesome.. the real deal. Anyway, many are now taking note of UR again, and even if it is just over a BLT on their lunchbreak for 15 minutes somewhere, it still helps. Last month it's UR, a few months down the line it could be Surgeon and Regis, who knows? The media is still very important, and while this is probably for another thread entirely I think people should be reminded again what absolute jewels in the crown of techno Surgeon and Regis are; they are still in a position to steer the good stuff back onto the agenda in a bigger way again.

Thing is, I think there are a lot of wicked producers around, yourself included Steve, who might not be far away from infiltrating the techno or electronic music world as much as is deserved. Maybe I'm off the mark when I say this, but I am convinced that much of the people making good stuff who fell off the train or who can't quite make it onto it, are those who make bad choices or trust the wrong people. I'm not suggesting that you have not put yourself on the map Steve, but when you are on this crusade towards digital I just think it's ludicrous. If you honestly think that techno is a world better confined to digital releases, then I think that's a bit unfortunate.

Ultimately, I think my main gripe or point is that we all live in different scenes. When I come onto BOA I see stuff flying around and it's as if the general consensus is that this forum is where techno begins and ends. There is no one techno scene, so therefore there's no one foregone conclusion to how ALL of this is going to go. When I see all the summing up observations of how it is and is going to be (especially in terms of music formats) I just can't relate to it as it's not true to my world at all; using Serato etc. or a laptop to DJ never has to happen if I don't want it to, so how has someone else already decided my fate for me? Some of the predictions going on are extraordinary, I think some of you need to hold your horses and stop gazing into the crystal balls all the time… it’s pointless.

Me personally I get by on records old and new, and with a lot of stuff that isn't techno as well; I still buy and play it on vinyl and I don't see that changing. The same applies to so many other people. I may have freaked out a bit here but hopefully I've added a bit of balance to this ongoing debate!

[dirty_bass]

I think it's easy to get your period when you read some of the stuff on here :)
I dunno, you speak in a very assured tone about certain things, particularly the digital/vinyl thing; but all you base it on really, is clubby techno or hard techno.. which is not where sales are at all right now. I think that the opinions expressed here are very insular, they just refer to one part of the techno scene, and that's before you've even got to electro, hardcore, d n'b, whatever else that comes close to the fringes of techno.

I mean what about the recent revival of deeper techno or the eps from Deepchord, Andy Stott and co? That sells very well. And a year or two ago many of the ‘deep’ heads didn't know what the future held. People buy these records because they are making an investment for the future; they're picking up quality music that will stand up in a few years time and may still be talked about. The next Euro techno 12” for instance, will not be though. Minimal etc. has spawned a techno media that favour slightly less intense music, and indeed many club records now need to qualify as listening techno records too. I'm not saying that I think a lot of minimal is good, I think a lot of it is nothing, but techno definitely came under a new type of scrutiny over the last few years, and the tougher or Euro stuff for the most part, got spat out. Anyway, I don't need to tell you that obviously, it's the reason we are having this discussion!

Last month UR were on the cover of Wire magazine;WE (if we're going to be a community for a second then) should honestly be seeing that as a victory for techno. Sure, UR make different stuff sometimes, but their approach is techno through and through, and when I saw Interstellar Fugitives play a few weeks ago they were awesome.. the real deal. Anyway, many are now taking note of UR again, and even if it is just over a BLT on their lunchbreak for 15 minutes somewhere, it still helps. Last month it's UR, a few months down the line it could be Surgeon and Regis, who knows? The media is still very important, and while this is probably for another thread entirely I think people should be reminded again what absolute jewels in the crown of techno Surgeon and Regis are; they are still in a position to steer the good stuff back onto the agenda in a bigger way again.

Thing is, I think there are a lot of wicked producers around, yourself included Steve, who might not be far away from infiltrating the techno or electronic music world as much as is deserved. Maybe I'm off the mark when I say this, but I am convinced that much of the people making good stuff who fell off the train or who can't quite make it onto it, are those who make bad choices or trust the wrong people. I'm not suggesting that you have not put yourself on the map Steve, but when you are on this crusade towards digital I just think it's ludicrous. If you honestly think that techno is a world better confined to digital releases, then I think that's a bit unfortunate.

Ultimately, I think my main gripe or point is that we all live in different scenes. When I come onto BOA I see stuff flying around and it's as if the general consensus is that this forum is where techno begins and ends. There is no one techno scene, so therefore there's no one foregone conclusion to how ALL of this is going to go. When I see all the summing up observations of how it is and is going to be (especially in terms of music formats) I just can't relate to it as it's not true to my world at all; using Serato etc. or a laptop to DJ never has to happen if I don't want it to, so how has someone else already decided my fate for me? Some of the predictions going on are extraordinary, I think some of you need to hold your horses and stop gazing into the crystal balls all the time… it’s pointless.

Me personally I get by on records old and new, and with a lot of stuff that isn't techno as well; I still buy and play it on vinyl and I don't see that changing. The same applies to so many other people. I may have freaked out a bit here but hopefully I've added a bit of balance to this ongoing debate!

I totally get what your saying and I am in no dissagreement whatsoever.

Nor am I on a crusade.

The only thing that really bothers me is that the ENTIRE music industry in in a transitional limbo from physical media to digital media.
Now yes there are good sales in various areas of dance music, and relative to dance music as a whole the sales for some labels, mostly the more historically established labels, the sales are fairly good.
I don`t dispute that.

However, when you step right back from things, and look at the music industry as a whole, everything is affected by this change.
Everything.

The complete desolation within vinyl distribution for dance music, AND the amount of record shops that have died, is a very very obvious indicator of what is happening.

Now I`m not abandoning vinyl at all, I`m investing a bunch of money into more vinyl production for the new year, but really, vinyl is more of an expensive means of promotion now, to call it a serious business is to be a little bit in denial of the changing market.

Off the back of vinyl as a promotion medium, there are other avenues where money is to be made, gigs for example, if you are interested in making money.

However, the technology is rapidly advancing, more and more clubs are moving over to CD, laptop based set ups, and while we remain in this limbo, then the business will conitnue to be very shakey indeed.

I`m sure the market for vinyl will slip into an equilibrium at some point, with less labels kicking about, and the larger labels taking up the slack by being an outlet for more music, in the same way that large scale labels such as BMG etc release lots of music. But then things might slip into the old model of the music biz, with the market being controlled by the minority.

I love music, the comitment to vinyl is nothing more than a failure to embrace change, in the same way that some people will only buy, say, nike trainers and never anything else.

What is important is the music, the medium through which it is delivered, so long as it retains High Fidelity, and affordability, doesn`t matter at all.

I think the only realistic future for independant music, not just techno, is the digital domain.
It`s happening now, all around us.

Anyway, regardless of the medium, the music will survive, so there is no real reason for anyone to panic, personally I see the dance market flipping in the same way that the major music market is flipping.
The gigs and performances are where the money will be made, and merchandise sold off the back of this (whether in situe, or via vendors).

[The Overfiend]

I think it's easy to get your period when you read some of the stuff on here :)
I dunno, you speak in a very assured tone about certain things, particularly the digital/vinyl thing; but all you base it on really, is clubby techno or hard techno.. which is not where sales are at all right now. I think that the opinions expressed here are very insular, they just refer to one part of the techno scene, and that's before you've even got to electro, hardcore, d n'b, whatever else that comes close to the fringes of techno.

I mean what about the recent revival of deeper techno or the eps from Deepchord, Andy Stott and co? That sells very well. And a year or two ago many of the ‘deep’ heads didn't know what the future held. People buy these records because they are making an investment for the future; they're picking up quality music that will stand up in a few years time and may still be talked about. The next Euro techno 12” for instance, will not be though. Minimal etc. has spawned a techno media that favour slightly less intense music, and indeed many club records now need to qualify as listening techno records too. I'm not saying that I think a lot of minimal is good, I think a lot of it is nothing, but techno definitely came under a new type of scrutiny over the last few years, and the tougher or Euro stuff for the most part, got spat out. Anyway, I don't need to tell you that obviously, it's the reason we are having this discussion!

Last month UR were on the cover of Wire magazine;WE (if we're going to be a community for a second then) should honestly be seeing that as a victory for techno. Sure, UR make different stuff sometimes, but their approach is techno through and through, and when I saw Interstellar Fugitives play a few weeks ago they were awesome.. the real deal. Anyway, many are now taking note of UR again, and even if it is just over a BLT on their lunchbreak for 15 minutes somewhere, it still helps. Last month it's UR, a few months down the line it could be Surgeon and Regis, who knows? The media is still very important, and while this is probably for another thread entirely I think people should be reminded again what absolute jewels in the crown of techno Surgeon and Regis are; they are still in a position to steer the good stuff back onto the agenda in a bigger way again.

Thing is, I think there are a lot of wicked producers around, yourself included Steve, who might not be far away from infiltrating the techno or electronic music world as much as is deserved. Maybe I'm off the mark when I say this, but I am convinced that much of the people making good stuff who fell off the train or who can't quite make it onto it, are those who make bad choices or trust the wrong people. I'm not suggesting that you have not put yourself on the map Steve, but when you are on this crusade towards digital I just think it's ludicrous. If you honestly think that techno is a world better confined to digital releases, then I think that's a bit unfortunate.

Ultimately, I think my main gripe or point is that we all live in different scenes. When I come onto BOA I see stuff flying around and it's as if the general consensus is that this forum is where techno begins and ends. There is no one techno scene, so therefore there's no one foregone conclusion to how ALL of this is going to go. When I see all the summing up observations of how it is and is going to be (especially in terms of music formats) I just can't relate to it as it's not true to my world at all; using Serato etc. or a laptop to DJ never has to happen if I don't want it to, so how has someone else already decided my fate for me? Some of the predictions going on are extraordinary, I think some of you need to hold your horses and stop gazing into the crystal balls all the time… it’s pointless.

Me personally I get by on records old and new, and with a lot of stuff that isn't techno as well; I still buy and play it on vinyl and I don't see that changing. The same applies to so many other people. I may have freaked out a bit here but hopefully I've added a bit of balance to this ongoing debate!

Takes my hat off and applauds

[eyeswithoutaface]

some strange views here i think

to me personally, sales of 2000 is bloody brilliant when i take into account who i am, where i am and what im doing. Regardless of if its a techno record, if its a minimal record etc etc i know people with house labels that get cained by all the top house boys, but only a couple of these labels have had sales of 2000 or more, and none of them hit that regulary.

what alot of people forget is that alot of the trouble with poor sales isnt JUST down to that fact that not as many people are not buying as many records in the electronic scene as previous years, but it is infact down alot of the time to promotion. I could only name a handful of techno labels who really go to town with their promotion, and i could name hundreds who dont. You've got to get your record releases down to a nice package, something you can and actually do promote to the record buying public. There are simply too many people starting labels practically every week to sustain the market anyway, but also alot of these labels think you can just register with Juno and your away, which is not the case at all.

Too many amateur ran labels who, unfortunately, crash and burn when they realise that whilst they feel they deserve to be at least breaking even, they are infact not even doing that, and its just simply not fair to put the blame entirely on the people buying the records.

Record sales in 7, 10 and 12" formats in the rock/indie scene are indeed rising, and why do people think this is? along with the obviously bigger market, its the obviously better promotion and marketing. There is a correlation that i think alot of people need to realise. And before someone says "well they've got big budgets", that's true of course, but good promotion doesnt always mean throwing alot of money at something. Just offer the punter something that looks and actually is a professional product from the start, and i think people would notice the difference.

There are still some really big and really credible labels in techno and the electronic music scene, and they are the big labels for a reason, because from the start they've meant business, they've come up with something solid and professional, instead of the number of amateur ran labels techno seems to be swimming with more so than any other genre at the moment

What's needed is a joint effort, where people embrace the future whilst still retaining the past

[lunatrick]

here's a link to ritchie hawtins mixmag interview :-

http://infinitestatemachine.com/wp-c...chiehawtin.pdf

some if it is the usual waffle about the future but near the end he makes an interesting point about how his label minus is paying out more royalties than ever i.e more sales than ever because of digital downloads......ok they are probably one of the most famous labels and perhaps getting more and more so......but I agree with eyes - this is because they are serious and professional - they saw what was coming and adapted to it and sell a quality product....it's just called running a business, any business, and a lot of the smaller players just don't seem to get that.....if I was going to start a label now I would get a shit hot website and hit the digital distributors hard, and perhaps just do small limited edition collectable vinyl releases with quality artwork and packaging.

[massplanck]

"using Serato etc. or a laptop to DJ never has to happen if I don't want it to"


Sunil for Dictator.

[AcidTrash]

Makes one wonder what the world would be like if all this analytical ability and energy were spent on something useful.

[RDR]

Makes one wonder what the world would be like if all this analytical ability and energy were spent on something useful.

Troll.

[dirty_bass]

Makes one wonder what the world would be like if all this analytical ability and energy were spent on something useful.

What is more usefull than creative and imaginative, abstract expression of the human spirit?
Art and musical expression separates us from the animals, and as it can be selfless and without the need for profit, yet can give universal pleasure to people regardless of language barriers.
Music brings people together, breaking social, econimic, racial and spiritual barriers, and it is why it is so controlled, and why dance music, which became so powerful, has been repressed.

What are you suggesting is more useful? politics?

[AcidTrash]

What is more usefull than creative and imaginative, abstract expression of the human spirit?
Art and musical expression separates us from the animals, and as it can be selfless and without the need for profit, yet can give universal pleasure to people regardless of language barriers.
Music brings people together, breaking social, econimic, racial and spiritual barriers, and it is why it is so controlled, and why dance music, which became so powerful, has been repressed.

What are you suggesting is more useful? politics?

Actually your reply does deserve a better answer.

Dance music has not been repressed because of any of the things you mention. It has been repressed because A) it's damn antisocial to play it all night in a built up area, B) whenever there are free parties there's always a mess someone else has to pay for the clean up of, C) I never met a raver who wasnt happy to climb into a car and drive it after half a dozen pills. D) it's part of the drug culture which isn't taxable. Governments dont like things they cant tax. and E) it creates a generation of young people who drop out of the system. You may see the latter as a good thing. I do not. The brightest and best of a generation pricking about with cubase? Examine any youth movement of any other decade and they actually archived something. Ravers just learned how to shake off personal responsibility and duty of care to themselves.

In fact, why does the rave scene needs to be repressed when it does such a good job of repressing its people without help. It would only need to actively repress the scene if it were in any way a threat to its authority. It is not.

What is more useful? Perhaps asking why those barriers you speak of exist and what can be done to prevent the going up in the first place.

Diverting all this energy into a self referential bubble of toy obsessed craven egotists and posers and debating endlessly which toys will last the test of time is actually quite sad. Especially given that these threads haven't actually changed in all the years I've been reading them.

In many ways I'm pleased the techno scene I knew is dying. The only people it served was DJ's who were prepared to throw thousands of their own money at failed enterprises for their own sense of self worth (masquerading as love of the scene LOL), criminal drug dealers, and the many cynical parasitic businesses that have grown up around yet another consumer market.
Everyone else was just cattle (of which I became a part for a time).

All the while the victims watch their teeth grind to dust and their ability to play an active role in something more than their cloying, claustrophobic cliques, disappear down the sink.

Of the many people I knew from that scene, most of them are still there, not having moved on or grown up or even achieved anything of note. Most of them are state dependants or racked with consumer debt and for all their claims of being free they are more slaves to the system than I, especially given the system really would prefer you self medicating and out of the way.

So far as I can see the scene is one massive drop-out factory full of hypocrites, fantasists, sycophants and sheep.

As to my original comment, I think were all this intelligence applied to real problems rather than pricking about with cubase
there wouldn't be so much of a need to go out on a weekend and frazzle your brain on whatever the hippy in the toilets is punting.

[dan the acid man]

may i point you to this post you made pete http://www.blackoutaudio.co.uk/forum...ad.php?t=53592