RUMOUR: Amato have gone bust

[Sunil]

I think Sunil is on his period.

I think it's easy to get your period when you read some of the stuff on here :)
I dunno, you speak in a very assured tone about certain things, particularly the digital/vinyl thing; but all you base it on really, is clubby techno or hard techno.. which is not where sales are at all right now. I think that the opinions expressed here are very insular, they just refer to one part of the techno scene, and that's before you've even got to electro, hardcore, d n'b, whatever else that comes close to the fringes of techno.

I mean what about the recent revival of deeper techno or the eps from Deepchord, Andy Stott and co? That sells very well. And a year or two ago many of the ‘deep’ heads didn't know what the future held. People buy these records because they are making an investment for the future; they're picking up quality music that will stand up in a few years time and may still be talked about. The next Euro techno 12” for instance, will not be though. Minimal etc. has spawned a techno media that favour slightly less intense music, and indeed many club records now need to qualify as listening techno records too. I'm not saying that I think a lot of minimal is good, I think a lot of it is nothing, but techno definitely came under a new type of scrutiny over the last few years, and the tougher or Euro stuff for the most part, got spat out. Anyway, I don't need to tell you that obviously, it's the reason we are having this discussion!

Last month UR were on the cover of Wire magazine;WE (if we're going to be a community for a second then) should honestly be seeing that as a victory for techno. Sure, UR make different stuff sometimes, but their approach is techno through and through, and when I saw Interstellar Fugitives play a few weeks ago they were awesome.. the real deal. Anyway, many are now taking note of UR again, and even if it is just over a BLT on their lunchbreak for 15 minutes somewhere, it still helps. Last month it's UR, a few months down the line it could be Surgeon and Regis, who knows? The media is still very important, and while this is probably for another thread entirely I think people should be reminded again what absolute jewels in the crown of techno Surgeon and Regis are; they are still in a position to steer the good stuff back onto the agenda in a bigger way again.

Thing is, I think there are a lot of wicked producers around, yourself included Steve, who might not be far away from infiltrating the techno or electronic music world as much as is deserved. Maybe I'm off the mark when I say this, but I am convinced that much of the people making good stuff who fell off the train or who can't quite make it onto it, are those who make bad choices or trust the wrong people. I'm not suggesting that you have not put yourself on the map Steve, but when you are on this crusade towards digital I just think it's ludicrous. If you honestly think that techno is a world better confined to digital releases, then I think that's a bit unfortunate.

Ultimately, I think my main gripe or point is that we all live in different scenes. When I come onto BOA I see stuff flying around and it's as if the general consensus is that this forum is where techno begins and ends. There is no one techno scene, so therefore there's no one foregone conclusion to how ALL of this is going to go. When I see all the summing up observations of how it is and is going to be (especially in terms of music formats) I just can't relate to it as it's not true to my world at all; using Serato etc. or a laptop to DJ never has to happen if I don't want it to, so how has someone else already decided my fate for me? Some of the predictions going on are extraordinary, I think some of you need to hold your horses and stop gazing into the crystal balls all the time… it’s pointless.

Me personally I get by on records old and new, and with a lot of stuff that isn't techno as well; I still buy and play it on vinyl and I don't see that changing. The same applies to so many other people. I may have freaked out a bit here but hopefully I've added a bit of balance to this ongoing debate!

[dirty_bass]

I think it's easy to get your period when you read some of the stuff on here :)
I dunno, you speak in a very assured tone about certain things, particularly the digital/vinyl thing; but all you base it on really, is clubby techno or hard techno.. which is not where sales are at all right now. I think that the opinions expressed here are very insular, they just refer to one part of the techno scene, and that's before you've even got to electro, hardcore, d n'b, whatever else that comes close to the fringes of techno.

I mean what about the recent revival of deeper techno or the eps from Deepchord, Andy Stott and co? That sells very well. And a year or two ago many of the ‘deep’ heads didn't know what the future held. People buy these records because they are making an investment for the future; they're picking up quality music that will stand up in a few years time and may still be talked about. The next Euro techno 12” for instance, will not be though. Minimal etc. has spawned a techno media that favour slightly less intense music, and indeed many club records now need to qualify as listening techno records too. I'm not saying that I think a lot of minimal is good, I think a lot of it is nothing, but techno definitely came under a new type of scrutiny over the last few years, and the tougher or Euro stuff for the most part, got spat out. Anyway, I don't need to tell you that obviously, it's the reason we are having this discussion!

Last month UR were on the cover of Wire magazine;WE (if we're going to be a community for a second then) should honestly be seeing that as a victory for techno. Sure, UR make different stuff sometimes, but their approach is techno through and through, and when I saw Interstellar Fugitives play a few weeks ago they were awesome.. the real deal. Anyway, many are now taking note of UR again, and even if it is just over a BLT on their lunchbreak for 15 minutes somewhere, it still helps. Last month it's UR, a few months down the line it could be Surgeon and Regis, who knows? The media is still very important, and while this is probably for another thread entirely I think people should be reminded again what absolute jewels in the crown of techno Surgeon and Regis are; they are still in a position to steer the good stuff back onto the agenda in a bigger way again.

Thing is, I think there are a lot of wicked producers around, yourself included Steve, who might not be far away from infiltrating the techno or electronic music world as much as is deserved. Maybe I'm off the mark when I say this, but I am convinced that much of the people making good stuff who fell off the train or who can't quite make it onto it, are those who make bad choices or trust the wrong people. I'm not suggesting that you have not put yourself on the map Steve, but when you are on this crusade towards digital I just think it's ludicrous. If you honestly think that techno is a world better confined to digital releases, then I think that's a bit unfortunate.

Ultimately, I think my main gripe or point is that we all live in different scenes. When I come onto BOA I see stuff flying around and it's as if the general consensus is that this forum is where techno begins and ends. There is no one techno scene, so therefore there's no one foregone conclusion to how ALL of this is going to go. When I see all the summing up observations of how it is and is going to be (especially in terms of music formats) I just can't relate to it as it's not true to my world at all; using Serato etc. or a laptop to DJ never has to happen if I don't want it to, so how has someone else already decided my fate for me? Some of the predictions going on are extraordinary, I think some of you need to hold your horses and stop gazing into the crystal balls all the time… it’s pointless.

Me personally I get by on records old and new, and with a lot of stuff that isn't techno as well; I still buy and play it on vinyl and I don't see that changing. The same applies to so many other people. I may have freaked out a bit here but hopefully I've added a bit of balance to this ongoing debate!

I totally get what your saying and I am in no dissagreement whatsoever.

Nor am I on a crusade.

The only thing that really bothers me is that the ENTIRE music industry in in a transitional limbo from physical media to digital media.
Now yes there are good sales in various areas of dance music, and relative to dance music as a whole the sales for some labels, mostly the more historically established labels, the sales are fairly good.
I don`t dispute that.

However, when you step right back from things, and look at the music industry as a whole, everything is affected by this change.
Everything.

The complete desolation within vinyl distribution for dance music, AND the amount of record shops that have died, is a very very obvious indicator of what is happening.

Now I`m not abandoning vinyl at all, I`m investing a bunch of money into more vinyl production for the new year, but really, vinyl is more of an expensive means of promotion now, to call it a serious business is to be a little bit in denial of the changing market.

Off the back of vinyl as a promotion medium, there are other avenues where money is to be made, gigs for example, if you are interested in making money.

However, the technology is rapidly advancing, more and more clubs are moving over to CD, laptop based set ups, and while we remain in this limbo, then the business will conitnue to be very shakey indeed.

I`m sure the market for vinyl will slip into an equilibrium at some point, with less labels kicking about, and the larger labels taking up the slack by being an outlet for more music, in the same way that large scale labels such as BMG etc release lots of music. But then things might slip into the old model of the music biz, with the market being controlled by the minority.

I love music, the comitment to vinyl is nothing more than a failure to embrace change, in the same way that some people will only buy, say, nike trainers and never anything else.

What is important is the music, the medium through which it is delivered, so long as it retains High Fidelity, and affordability, doesn`t matter at all.

I think the only realistic future for independant music, not just techno, is the digital domain.
It`s happening now, all around us.

Anyway, regardless of the medium, the music will survive, so there is no real reason for anyone to panic, personally I see the dance market flipping in the same way that the major music market is flipping.
The gigs and performances are where the money will be made, and merchandise sold off the back of this (whether in situe, or via vendors).

[The Overfiend]

I think it's easy to get your period when you read some of the stuff on here :)
I dunno, you speak in a very assured tone about certain things, particularly the digital/vinyl thing; but all you base it on really, is clubby techno or hard techno.. which is not where sales are at all right now. I think that the opinions expressed here are very insular, they just refer to one part of the techno scene, and that's before you've even got to electro, hardcore, d n'b, whatever else that comes close to the fringes of techno.

I mean what about the recent revival of deeper techno or the eps from Deepchord, Andy Stott and co? That sells very well. And a year or two ago many of the ‘deep’ heads didn't know what the future held. People buy these records because they are making an investment for the future; they're picking up quality music that will stand up in a few years time and may still be talked about. The next Euro techno 12” for instance, will not be though. Minimal etc. has spawned a techno media that favour slightly less intense music, and indeed many club records now need to qualify as listening techno records too. I'm not saying that I think a lot of minimal is good, I think a lot of it is nothing, but techno definitely came under a new type of scrutiny over the last few years, and the tougher or Euro stuff for the most part, got spat out. Anyway, I don't need to tell you that obviously, it's the reason we are having this discussion!

Last month UR were on the cover of Wire magazine;WE (if we're going to be a community for a second then) should honestly be seeing that as a victory for techno. Sure, UR make different stuff sometimes, but their approach is techno through and through, and when I saw Interstellar Fugitives play a few weeks ago they were awesome.. the real deal. Anyway, many are now taking note of UR again, and even if it is just over a BLT on their lunchbreak for 15 minutes somewhere, it still helps. Last month it's UR, a few months down the line it could be Surgeon and Regis, who knows? The media is still very important, and while this is probably for another thread entirely I think people should be reminded again what absolute jewels in the crown of techno Surgeon and Regis are; they are still in a position to steer the good stuff back onto the agenda in a bigger way again.

Thing is, I think there are a lot of wicked producers around, yourself included Steve, who might not be far away from infiltrating the techno or electronic music world as much as is deserved. Maybe I'm off the mark when I say this, but I am convinced that much of the people making good stuff who fell off the train or who can't quite make it onto it, are those who make bad choices or trust the wrong people. I'm not suggesting that you have not put yourself on the map Steve, but when you are on this crusade towards digital I just think it's ludicrous. If you honestly think that techno is a world better confined to digital releases, then I think that's a bit unfortunate.

Ultimately, I think my main gripe or point is that we all live in different scenes. When I come onto BOA I see stuff flying around and it's as if the general consensus is that this forum is where techno begins and ends. There is no one techno scene, so therefore there's no one foregone conclusion to how ALL of this is going to go. When I see all the summing up observations of how it is and is going to be (especially in terms of music formats) I just can't relate to it as it's not true to my world at all; using Serato etc. or a laptop to DJ never has to happen if I don't want it to, so how has someone else already decided my fate for me? Some of the predictions going on are extraordinary, I think some of you need to hold your horses and stop gazing into the crystal balls all the time… it’s pointless.

Me personally I get by on records old and new, and with a lot of stuff that isn't techno as well; I still buy and play it on vinyl and I don't see that changing. The same applies to so many other people. I may have freaked out a bit here but hopefully I've added a bit of balance to this ongoing debate!

Takes my hat off and applauds