RUMOUR: Amato have gone bust

[Sunil]

Im just trying to find my way through this rickety business, and how else to do that than to converse with people like yourself. For the record, id rather discuss what myself and others are trying to do than keep quiet.

The guns were blazing a bit there, I wasn't out to have a go at you personally, but kinda did in the end.. sorry for that. Hopefully my last post will explain where I've been coming from..

[RDR]

The guns were blazing a bit there, I wasn't out to have a go at you personally, but kinda did in the end.. sorry for that. Hopefully my last post will explain where I've been coming from..

No worries man, it did get my back up for a bit, then i took account of myself and realised i didnt know why.

For the record I dont believe this place is the be all and end all of techno forums, not by any means. But just like any forum it can be a bit insular.

Techno is forever changing, my view is that its a natural occurance for it to move formats. The main problem is the quality product i suppose, as you mentioned with UR. And someone else mentioned with Hawtin I think???

There are always going to be winners and losers in any business, music is particularly known for this, a make or break business where money lives on a knife edge.

:)

[dirty_bass]

I think it's easy to get your period when you read some of the stuff on here :)
I dunno, you speak in a very assured tone about certain things, particularly the digital/vinyl thing; but all you base it on really, is clubby techno or hard techno.. which is not where sales are at all right now. I think that the opinions expressed here are very insular, they just refer to one part of the techno scene, and that's before you've even got to electro, hardcore, d n'b, whatever else that comes close to the fringes of techno.

I mean what about the recent revival of deeper techno or the eps from Deepchord, Andy Stott and co? That sells very well. And a year or two ago many of the ‘deep’ heads didn't know what the future held. People buy these records because they are making an investment for the future; they're picking up quality music that will stand up in a few years time and may still be talked about. The next Euro techno 12” for instance, will not be though. Minimal etc. has spawned a techno media that favour slightly less intense music, and indeed many club records now need to qualify as listening techno records too. I'm not saying that I think a lot of minimal is good, I think a lot of it is nothing, but techno definitely came under a new type of scrutiny over the last few years, and the tougher or Euro stuff for the most part, got spat out. Anyway, I don't need to tell you that obviously, it's the reason we are having this discussion!

Last month UR were on the cover of Wire magazine;WE (if we're going to be a community for a second then) should honestly be seeing that as a victory for techno. Sure, UR make different stuff sometimes, but their approach is techno through and through, and when I saw Interstellar Fugitives play a few weeks ago they were awesome.. the real deal. Anyway, many are now taking note of UR again, and even if it is just over a BLT on their lunchbreak for 15 minutes somewhere, it still helps. Last month it's UR, a few months down the line it could be Surgeon and Regis, who knows? The media is still very important, and while this is probably for another thread entirely I think people should be reminded again what absolute jewels in the crown of techno Surgeon and Regis are; they are still in a position to steer the good stuff back onto the agenda in a bigger way again.

Thing is, I think there are a lot of wicked producers around, yourself included Steve, who might not be far away from infiltrating the techno or electronic music world as much as is deserved. Maybe I'm off the mark when I say this, but I am convinced that much of the people making good stuff who fell off the train or who can't quite make it onto it, are those who make bad choices or trust the wrong people. I'm not suggesting that you have not put yourself on the map Steve, but when you are on this crusade towards digital I just think it's ludicrous. If you honestly think that techno is a world better confined to digital releases, then I think that's a bit unfortunate.

Ultimately, I think my main gripe or point is that we all live in different scenes. When I come onto BOA I see stuff flying around and it's as if the general consensus is that this forum is where techno begins and ends. There is no one techno scene, so therefore there's no one foregone conclusion to how ALL of this is going to go. When I see all the summing up observations of how it is and is going to be (especially in terms of music formats) I just can't relate to it as it's not true to my world at all; using Serato etc. or a laptop to DJ never has to happen if I don't want it to, so how has someone else already decided my fate for me? Some of the predictions going on are extraordinary, I think some of you need to hold your horses and stop gazing into the crystal balls all the time… it’s pointless.

Me personally I get by on records old and new, and with a lot of stuff that isn't techno as well; I still buy and play it on vinyl and I don't see that changing. The same applies to so many other people. I may have freaked out a bit here but hopefully I've added a bit of balance to this ongoing debate!

I totally get what your saying and I am in no dissagreement whatsoever.

Nor am I on a crusade.

The only thing that really bothers me is that the ENTIRE music industry in in a transitional limbo from physical media to digital media.
Now yes there are good sales in various areas of dance music, and relative to dance music as a whole the sales for some labels, mostly the more historically established labels, the sales are fairly good.
I don`t dispute that.

However, when you step right back from things, and look at the music industry as a whole, everything is affected by this change.
Everything.

The complete desolation within vinyl distribution for dance music, AND the amount of record shops that have died, is a very very obvious indicator of what is happening.

Now I`m not abandoning vinyl at all, I`m investing a bunch of money into more vinyl production for the new year, but really, vinyl is more of an expensive means of promotion now, to call it a serious business is to be a little bit in denial of the changing market.

Off the back of vinyl as a promotion medium, there are other avenues where money is to be made, gigs for example, if you are interested in making money.

However, the technology is rapidly advancing, more and more clubs are moving over to CD, laptop based set ups, and while we remain in this limbo, then the business will conitnue to be very shakey indeed.

I`m sure the market for vinyl will slip into an equilibrium at some point, with less labels kicking about, and the larger labels taking up the slack by being an outlet for more music, in the same way that large scale labels such as BMG etc release lots of music. But then things might slip into the old model of the music biz, with the market being controlled by the minority.

I love music, the comitment to vinyl is nothing more than a failure to embrace change, in the same way that some people will only buy, say, nike trainers and never anything else.

What is important is the music, the medium through which it is delivered, so long as it retains High Fidelity, and affordability, doesn`t matter at all.

I think the only realistic future for independant music, not just techno, is the digital domain.
It`s happening now, all around us.

Anyway, regardless of the medium, the music will survive, so there is no real reason for anyone to panic, personally I see the dance market flipping in the same way that the major music market is flipping.
The gigs and performances are where the money will be made, and merchandise sold off the back of this (whether in situe, or via vendors).

[The Overfiend]

I think it's easy to get your period when you read some of the stuff on here :)
I dunno, you speak in a very assured tone about certain things, particularly the digital/vinyl thing; but all you base it on really, is clubby techno or hard techno.. which is not where sales are at all right now. I think that the opinions expressed here are very insular, they just refer to one part of the techno scene, and that's before you've even got to electro, hardcore, d n'b, whatever else that comes close to the fringes of techno.

I mean what about the recent revival of deeper techno or the eps from Deepchord, Andy Stott and co? That sells very well. And a year or two ago many of the ‘deep’ heads didn't know what the future held. People buy these records because they are making an investment for the future; they're picking up quality music that will stand up in a few years time and may still be talked about. The next Euro techno 12” for instance, will not be though. Minimal etc. has spawned a techno media that favour slightly less intense music, and indeed many club records now need to qualify as listening techno records too. I'm not saying that I think a lot of minimal is good, I think a lot of it is nothing, but techno definitely came under a new type of scrutiny over the last few years, and the tougher or Euro stuff for the most part, got spat out. Anyway, I don't need to tell you that obviously, it's the reason we are having this discussion!

Last month UR were on the cover of Wire magazine;WE (if we're going to be a community for a second then) should honestly be seeing that as a victory for techno. Sure, UR make different stuff sometimes, but their approach is techno through and through, and when I saw Interstellar Fugitives play a few weeks ago they were awesome.. the real deal. Anyway, many are now taking note of UR again, and even if it is just over a BLT on their lunchbreak for 15 minutes somewhere, it still helps. Last month it's UR, a few months down the line it could be Surgeon and Regis, who knows? The media is still very important, and while this is probably for another thread entirely I think people should be reminded again what absolute jewels in the crown of techno Surgeon and Regis are; they are still in a position to steer the good stuff back onto the agenda in a bigger way again.

Thing is, I think there are a lot of wicked producers around, yourself included Steve, who might not be far away from infiltrating the techno or electronic music world as much as is deserved. Maybe I'm off the mark when I say this, but I am convinced that much of the people making good stuff who fell off the train or who can't quite make it onto it, are those who make bad choices or trust the wrong people. I'm not suggesting that you have not put yourself on the map Steve, but when you are on this crusade towards digital I just think it's ludicrous. If you honestly think that techno is a world better confined to digital releases, then I think that's a bit unfortunate.

Ultimately, I think my main gripe or point is that we all live in different scenes. When I come onto BOA I see stuff flying around and it's as if the general consensus is that this forum is where techno begins and ends. There is no one techno scene, so therefore there's no one foregone conclusion to how ALL of this is going to go. When I see all the summing up observations of how it is and is going to be (especially in terms of music formats) I just can't relate to it as it's not true to my world at all; using Serato etc. or a laptop to DJ never has to happen if I don't want it to, so how has someone else already decided my fate for me? Some of the predictions going on are extraordinary, I think some of you need to hold your horses and stop gazing into the crystal balls all the time… it’s pointless.

Me personally I get by on records old and new, and with a lot of stuff that isn't techno as well; I still buy and play it on vinyl and I don't see that changing. The same applies to so many other people. I may have freaked out a bit here but hopefully I've added a bit of balance to this ongoing debate!

Takes my hat off and applauds

[AcidTrash]

Makes one wonder what the world would be like if all this analytical ability and energy were spent on something useful.

[RDR]

Makes one wonder what the world would be like if all this analytical ability and energy were spent on something useful.

Troll.

[dirty_bass]

Makes one wonder what the world would be like if all this analytical ability and energy were spent on something useful.

What is more usefull than creative and imaginative, abstract expression of the human spirit?
Art and musical expression separates us from the animals, and as it can be selfless and without the need for profit, yet can give universal pleasure to people regardless of language barriers.
Music brings people together, breaking social, econimic, racial and spiritual barriers, and it is why it is so controlled, and why dance music, which became so powerful, has been repressed.

What are you suggesting is more useful? politics?

[AcidTrash]

hippy.

[AcidTrash]

What is more usefull than creative and imaginative, abstract expression of the human spirit?
Art and musical expression separates us from the animals, and as it can be selfless and without the need for profit, yet can give universal pleasure to people regardless of language barriers.
Music brings people together, breaking social, econimic, racial and spiritual barriers, and it is why it is so controlled, and why dance music, which became so powerful, has been repressed.

What are you suggesting is more useful? politics?

Actually your reply does deserve a better answer.

Dance music has not been repressed because of any of the things you mention. It has been repressed because A) it's damn antisocial to play it all night in a built up area, B) whenever there are free parties there's always a mess someone else has to pay for the clean up of, C) I never met a raver who wasnt happy to climb into a car and drive it after half a dozen pills. D) it's part of the drug culture which isn't taxable. Governments dont like things they cant tax. and E) it creates a generation of young people who drop out of the system. You may see the latter as a good thing. I do not. The brightest and best of a generation pricking about with cubase? Examine any youth movement of any other decade and they actually archived something. Ravers just learned how to shake off personal responsibility and duty of care to themselves.

In fact, why does the rave scene needs to be repressed when it does such a good job of repressing its people without help. It would only need to actively repress the scene if it were in any way a threat to its authority. It is not.

What is more useful? Perhaps asking why those barriers you speak of exist and what can be done to prevent the going up in the first place.

Diverting all this energy into a self referential bubble of toy obsessed craven egotists and posers and debating endlessly which toys will last the test of time is actually quite sad. Especially given that these threads haven't actually changed in all the years I've been reading them.

In many ways I'm pleased the techno scene I knew is dying. The only people it served was DJ's who were prepared to throw thousands of their own money at failed enterprises for their own sense of self worth (masquerading as love of the scene LOL), criminal drug dealers, and the many cynical parasitic businesses that have grown up around yet another consumer market.
Everyone else was just cattle (of which I became a part for a time).

All the while the victims watch their teeth grind to dust and their ability to play an active role in something more than their cloying, claustrophobic cliques, disappear down the sink.

Of the many people I knew from that scene, most of them are still there, not having moved on or grown up or even achieved anything of note. Most of them are state dependants or racked with consumer debt and for all their claims of being free they are more slaves to the system than I, especially given the system really would prefer you self medicating and out of the way.

So far as I can see the scene is one massive drop-out factory full of hypocrites, fantasists, sycophants and sheep.

As to my original comment, I think were all this intelligence applied to real problems rather than pricking about with cubase
there wouldn't be so much of a need to go out on a weekend and frazzle your brain on whatever the hippy in the toilets is punting.

[dan the acid man]

may i point you to this post you made pete http://www.blackoutaudio.co.uk/forum...ad.php?t=53592

[AcidTrash]

Spoil sport.

[MITA]

burn~

[AcidTrash]

I was looking forward to one of DB's grand speeches.

[eyeswithoutaface]

the thing is, there is no one techno scene. Sound's to me that the side of things you got involved with Pete were to be blunt, shit, and it's soured your whole view on things. That's a very negative and cynical view on what is a global genre of music. We've had a thriving scene up north for years spanning across cities like Liverpool and Manchester for me particulary, always seeing the same regular faces at parties, good, honest people, many are professionals in their field. Several of my friends are doctors and consultants and they enjoy regular raving, doesnt always equate to drugged up face munchers though. Alot of my friends, myself included, started out just as a punter and the passion has since developed into something people can try and make a career out of, with some people i know actually doing just that

it's not all about bad acid records, parties in forests and big bags of pills

[dirty_bass]

I was looking forward to one of DB's grand speeches.

Not a speech
But a reply to your own I suppose.

1) Who said anything about free parties? Club nights and club licensing has been severley restricted, and so have legal dance festivals. There has been a definite clamp down on dance music by the authorities, even when it is legal.

2) Less and less people use narcotics at the events I go too, they seem to be out of fashion, or crap, but the vibe is still good, so there goes your munter theory.

3) As for achievements, it all depends on what you rate as "achievement", I`m guessing you rate achievement in material gains.
I can only speak for myself and my experience, but I have achieved the ability to travel around the world, meet very very interesting people, and build friendships that trancend national boundaries. I allways enjoy hanging out with the people as much as playing the parties, and music has allowed me to do all of this. It has aided my communication with people I may have never met, and has educated me about life in other nations.
I`d say it has enhanced the enjoyment of my life.

I`ve met a few of your said "hypocrites, fantasists, sycophants and sheep" but probably far less than if I was working in banking for instance. On the whole I have met amazing, intelligent, well educated and wise people some of who`m I have made enduring and endearing relationships with.

That`s not a bad achievement for "mucking around in cubase"
Music has got me out of the rat race and the daily grind, and given me another way to live my life.

[AcidTrash]

Not a speech
But a reply to your own I suppose.

1) Who said anything about free parties? Club nights and club licensing has been severley restricted, and so have legal dance festivals. There has been a definite clamp down on dance music by the authorities, even when it is legal.

Thats not just dance music though. It's anything where people gather for social reasons. pubs are closing down at a rate of 20 a month. Band venues are being eaten alive too.
Largely because old buildings in dead city centres are being developed for housing property.

Don't think the government gives a fck about people on drugs or the music, it just does the bidding of the folks with the money where town planning is concerned.

2) Less and less people use narcotics at the events I go too, they seem to be out of fashion, or crap, but the vibe is still good, so there goes your munter theory.

Well this I have to see for myself.

3) As for achievements, it all depends on what you rate as "achievement", I`m guessing you rate achievement in material gains.

Actually no. Ive spent two years on and off developing software for a disability charity. I put that above my house and car and even my music which is good for what it is. I know plenty of producers still on the welfare whose sole achievement is finally kicking the ketamine into touch.

I can only speak for myself and my experience, but I have achieved the ability to travel around the world, meet very very interesting people, and build friendships that trancend national boundaries. I allways enjoy hanging out with the people as much as playing the parties, and music has allowed me to do all of this. It has aided my communication with people I may have never met, and has educated me about life in other nations.
I`d say it has enhanced the enjoyment of my life.

I`ve met a few of your said "hypocrites, fantasists, sycophants and sheep" but probably far less than if I was working in banking for instance. On the whole I have met amazing, intelligent, well educated and wise people some of who`m I have made enduring and endearing relationships with.

That`s not a bad achievement for "mucking around in cubase"
Music has got me out of the rat race and the daily grind, and given me another way to live my life.

I really MUST get out of Yorkshire then.

[Si the Sigh]

Just heard Resist (React) has gone under again...

Any one able to back that info up?

[dirty_bass]

I really MUST get out of Yorkshire then.

I think you need to get out of england really.
It might change some of your rather right wing, bordering on fascist views.

[theledge]

I really MUST get out of Yorkshire then.

exactly