Hard Trance Events Scene Decline?

[Hakka.]

I suppose only people like Mark EG and M-Zone can offer the best opinion on this, but is the clubbing scene for hard trance & hard style dissappearing or reducing?

We've seen the closure of many clubs... Candy Store in Plymouth (now opened again but half capacity in different location), Country Club closed, Monastrey shut down, Subterrania ended, North finishing...

It seems like established nights are shutting down and one off nights with DJ's scraping the pounds together to barely break even is what is left these days. What is going on???

I know so many people who make a constant loss just so they can play out. Its harsh... but it just feels that there is nowhere near the amount of people in to underground music as there used to be.

Dance Academy's numbers have dropped so much in the last year... where does it all end?

I'm curious to Mark EG can say about this... over the last 3 years... has his hard trance/hardstyle bookings remained in being the same sort of size events? or has his bookings come from smaller events and only a few large ones?

Just finding it hard to see where a stable DJ`ing future is, or do we have to create our own? Just that I can see eventually hundreds of small events and no more big ones as promoters and club owners can't make any money out of underground music, unless a lot of money is put on the line in getting the DJ's in (and Premonition in Seaton recently showed, big DJ's don't always garantuee packed croweds... despite offering a quality night!)

More clubs need to open... or something. Any ideas? or am I perhaps being negative and not seeing what we've got as being better than before?

comments would be appreciated! :)

[Voorheez]

I would definitely say that the majority of dance clubs are having a rough time of it at the moment, and us at the harder end of things don't help each other with the constant turmoil between genres. There now is even a big divide between hardstyle & hard trance, which doesn't help bring new comers to our sound, because our scene looks so volatile. Added to the fact of the larger clubs shutting for various reasons (not all unpopularity) and the music just not being as good anymore, it's harder to get new people interested, and that's where the lifeblood of clubs is.

[Shichi]

Monasterys new night Pilgramige in Plymouth is opening very soon I hear! ;)

[MARKEG]

wow. this is a massive massive massive subject :!:

but i've had a few Stella's hehe so please bear with me :) BUT....

hakka, you've probably created the post of the year as far as i'm concerned. and i love you for it.. and also please dont take any offence from what i'm about to write but it's all with a masive passion i hope you see this ;) hmm.. ok here's goes nothing:

this post is replicated every single year in some shape or form or another in some different way within all music genres. to me, the key is: postivitity AND change. that's what keeps me going and will always keep me going.

please let's try to stay +ve whilst we all talk about this...anyway, enough of the crap.

Now the scary shit as far as you're concerned?!?!!? (IMO):

1) Hardstyle HAS fragmented the Hard Trance scene.
2) Hard trance (of the 00-03 variety) IS dying out in the UK/Worldwide
3) Hard/Club music is changing

Right NOW the good shit:

1) Everything MUST change. Had we not had the same shit in 1992, trance would never have been born. TBH none of this dance music thing would have been born were it not for breaking up of music/conflicting ideas/change.
2) Music needs to change or else everything sounds the same. We need to get new ppl into our movement. Our scene keeps fresh.

You know, I get soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ****in disheartened with this music movement sometimes. it's like everyone is scared of change - the very opposite of what this music is about!!! please for gods sake guys!!!! can't you see change is a good thing??? sure things were great as they were but love those memories, keep them close to your heart... but move on.

hakka mate, you talk about 'our sound' like it's a sound that is 'ours'. surely it's the 'attitude' about the music that is 'ours', not the sound??? or am i talking shit??

hmm... it's such a masive topic and one that will talked about forever. but yet music will go forward. what i'm bothered about is how we keep those friendships we've formed, that ethos and that felling that was so important when we joined this music thing???? surely you all joined it could it was like nothing else you'd ever heard/witnessed/seen ie a mixture of the above ;)

anyway quote your post:

I would definitely say that the majority of dance clubs are having a rough time of it at the moment, and us at the harder end of things don't help each other with the constant turmoil between genres. There now is even a big divide between hardstyle & hard trance, which doesn't help bring new comers to our sound, because our scene looks so volatile. Added to the fact of the larger clubs shutting for various reasons (not all unpopularity) and the music just not being as good anymore, it's harder to get new people interested, and that's where the lifeblood of clubs is.

Music not as good anymore?!!?!?!!!!!! Are you not record shopping?!?!?!!! You have to search. ITS AN AMAZING TIME FOR MUSIC!!! Ppl can get everything so easy BUT What can be more exciting than having to look hard?!!?!!! I dont doubt you are mate but come on!!!........

Also: Harder to get new ppl interested? Hmmm.. I can see this from certain DJ's, but me... no chance. I really feel I'm getting alot of new ppl on board at the mo. Whether that's techno into trance or vica versa, wow this is a really important time. There's so much -veity out there. we all have a chance to make a difference right now and I hope I'm doing my bit.

I suppose only people like Mark EG and M-Zone can offer the best opinion on this, but is the clubbing scene for hard trance & hard style dissappearing or reducing?

errmm.. evolving... ;)

We've seen the closure of many clubs... Candy Store in Plymouth (now opened again but half capacity in different location), Country Club closed, Monastrey shut down, Subterrania ended, North finishing...

It seems like established nights are shutting down and one off nights with DJ's scraping the pounds together to barely break even is what is left these days. What is going on???

evolution... it's sad but true....

I know so many people who make a constant loss just so they can play out. Its harsh... but it just feels that there is nowhere near the amount of people in to underground music as there used to be.

If I'm going to be 100% honest with you I'll say that you're right IF you're talking about the South West Hard Trance Scene 1 yr/2yrs ago . As far as 'underground' music goes, I dont think we could be any stronger. I really feel we're all on a mission like never before.

PPL need to evolve and understand evolution.

Hope everyone else understands...

[Voorheez]

Honestly Mark, i've been listening to tunes from about a year ago, from even the end of last year and I honestly don't think what I am buying at the moment (and I search high and low) is anywhere near as good as the stuff that was released then. I'm not being negative, I try to be positive, but I just think it's true. I used to be able to listen to other forms of dance music, but none of that sticks out to me anymore either. I would think it was just my taste was changing, but many other people seem to feel the same way.

And as for getting new people into it - i'm talking about people fresh to dance music. Sure we have lots of new members on the board, but they're for the most part already into dance music/clubbing. I'm talking about attracting people who are uninitiated in dance music to events or the scene, which i honestly don't think happens much anymore. Other forms of music are far more prevelant.

[Shichi]

Good post Mark!

To be honest with everyone, I'm trying to step out from hard trance at the moment and trying to find something new and fresh or something which i can love to bits, This is what makes music exciting, there's so many tracks to choose from that you've got to look hard for something really special and once you've found it you've got a feeling that no other thing can match! It's sometimes even better than sex!! :lol:

I'm going to talk about the 'new generation' of djs now, When I look at DJ biographies you see that they've come from there roots and progressed into what they play today, I expect they didn't like change but at the same time I bet they were exciting times when it happened...

The 'new generation' of DJs can't expect to play the same stuff for 10years otherwise you will get left behind, I've been into hard trance for the last 3/4 years now and I've had good memories and they will never leave me because they are my roots and I love the music with a passion, But I also understand that to move on I need to widen my horizons and look for a new 'style' if you like...

Don't get me wrong the music I love now will never leave me and just because I'm out there looking for new stuff doesn't mean I haven't got time for hard trance anymore It's just because in 10years time when I'm writing my biography so far I want to put 'Hard Trance' @ the start and then I will be proud to of been part of the scene :clap:

[Hakka.]

hakka mate, you talk about 'our sound' like it's a sound that is 'ours'. surely it's the 'attitude' about the music that is 'ours', not the sound??? or am i talking shit

Sorry, this is totally my fault in the way I'm describing things. I don't ever wish to claim or suggest that the sound is mine or something of my own personal find. It's a sound I've totally immersed myself in... I've quit Uni to persue it, I spend most days sat on my own trying to create it and I spend all my money on buying it. I love the sound and I do embrace the evolution that comes with it. Perhaps subconciously I think that the sound is sort of "my own" as in its my own choice to love it and go with it. I don't mean I "own" the music as in ownership at all.

I totally appreciate that the sound is not ours as such, and I feel foolish that I've written such a thing... as it does not accurately portray what I ment.

[Hakka.]

I would definitely say that the majority of dance clubs are having a rough time of it at the moment, and us at the harder end of things don't help each other with the constant turmoil between genres. There now is even a big divide between hardstyle & hard trance, which doesn't help bring new comers to our sound, because our scene looks so volatile. Added to the fact of the larger clubs shutting for various reasons (not all unpopularity) and the music just not being as good anymore, it's harder to get new people interested, and that's where the lifeblood of clubs is.

I don't think music is not good as it used to be, I just think good music is harder to find. In the past, we'd have only a handful of hard trancers which were amazing and a lot of crap, so the good stuff shone like a beacon of greatness. Today we have lots of good stuff in a OCEAN of medicore hard trance / hard style releases. Finding stuff that is good/excellent in relation to all the other tracks out there, is very hard. I have so many tracks with the same bass lines or ideas... I have to look deeper in to a track to see what I want and to appreciate what is good music.

[Hakka.]

i've had a few Stella's hehe so please bear with me :)

fair play!... I will always have time for you or anyone else involved with this forum, while drinking stella or otherwise! ;)

[Louk]

drinking stella has its advantages

Louk

[MARKEG]

i love and respect you hakka (so do most of us i reckon) and i'm so glad you explained this.. i know you're in this for the right reasons... i'm also so pleased to see long, long passionate responses to this topic from 3 board members.... i'm not saying i'm right - we all just just need talk about it... come on everyone - let us all know what you think - we need some discussion here!!!!

[Hakka.]

this post is replicated every single year in some shape or form or another in some different way within all music genres. to me, the key is: postivitity AND change. that's what keeps me going and will always keep me going.

I know what you mean in that change is scary. I feel scared, not for the music, but the dance and clubbing side of things. I have so much that I want to do and be a part of, as well as help others be a part of that I would be gutted if everything I worked for was dismissed as being unpopular or no-longer the in thing. This does not mean I will give up though, and perhaps it's up to the individual to do everything he/she can to make things happen. I will try... but I can't help feeling a tad bit scared.

It is reassuring to read the words of someone who has probably been through this sort of thing many many times. You've been spinning music for near to 3/4's of my entire life time... your right in that music always evolves and carries on. I mean who would of thought that it was acid house and rave I was listening too at 9 years old? I had no idea what was round the corner... did I worry and think that I would never be a part of the music scene cause it was already in full effect while I was still in primary school? - Here I am, turning 22 last week. I've seen Hardcore Techno, Acid Techno, Hard House, Uplifting/Proggy Trance, Hard Trance, Hardstyle... by 32... surely I will evolution will see the music progress and not die or slow down to nothing... like my fears suggest.

As long as I love the music, it will never die in my heart... so I will keep mixing, producing and listening until I die.

[Louk]

personally it's a shame that events are declining in numbers/folding etc but i reckon its all to do with the fact that too many nights were trying to do the same thing all at the same time. How many times i've seen the same djs booked to play night after night in the south west - even two bookings on the same night in some instances means that its not worth the distance travelling to see these names as they will be somehwere else soon enough anyway - if that makes sense.

in terms of productions, I am finding artists like Scot Project and Wavetraxx two producers who i would have gladly bought tonnes of material by, sounding the same now and running out of ideas. It's the same with other producers and i call it "flutlicht syndrome" as they were the worst ones for it where using the same samples/soundsets in each tune - despite the tunes sounding good got to the stage where they were nothing special anymore. The hardstyle producers are even worse at doing this in my opinionw hich is why hard trance is my preferred style of the two. This meant stale sounding music (Even though im a hardstylke fan as well). Producers like Digital Pressure, Jon Doe, Marco V, Andreas Kraemer and Marcos have however done blinding work this year and should be commended.

The point is there are too many nights at the same time playing the same music with the same DJ sometimess (within reason) and thats why the numbers are down. Music at the moment is amazing as some fresh ideas are coming and tracks still have that "f*ck yes I want 200 of these beauties" factor about htem :)

Louk

[Louk]

p.s that is just my opinion as a clubber and not a club dj

[Paul Nisbet]

Hardcore topic indeedy....

gonna ave a little think to myself, then get back.

Although i will say this before i go... imo. I find most of the djs who think the music is not to the same standard as it once was, are more specialised in wat they play... ie oly hard trance or hardstyle!!!

Not a dig at anyone or anything... but i really see cross genre djin is the way forward. Doesnt matter wat scene you are in, you will not imo find 12 months worth of music, that is gonna 100 percent gonna satisfy you.

And if you dont blend all the borders of the different styles of music around you, i think there is a possibilty you might have pigeon holed urself into play sub standard music of your chosen genre?!

[K Front]

What an interesting topic..

I dont understand the scene at the moment, about a year an half ago places like dance academy were booming. Really good nights to go to and i would stay all night. But slowly i havnt been going as much because it doesnt have the same atmosphere as it did. Im not saying its crap now, its still a really good night.. Maybe its just me.
But also i think the devide in genres hasnt helped, because people prefer differents styles, and the djs are also changing.
Another thing i dont understand is nights like premonition, they always put on a really good night and the people just dont turn up. I know theres a lot of ravers out there! What are you all doing!?

[Hakka.]

What an interesting topic..

I dont understand the scene at the moment, about a year an half ago places like dance academy were booming. Really good nights to go to and i would stay all night. But slowly i havnt been going as much because it doesnt have the same atmosphere as it did. Im not saying its crap now, its still a really good night.. Maybe its just me.
But also i think the devide in genres hasnt helped, because people prefer differents styles, and the djs are also changing.
Another thing i dont understand is nights like premonition, they always put on a really good night and the people just dont turn up. I know theres a lot of ravers out there! What are you all doing!?

I think you've a part of thinking trail I had before posting this originally. I didn't forsee change to show decline in a booming clubbing world... but I must accept that change happens and I have to change with it...

[K Front]

personally it's a shame that events are declining in numbers/folding etc but i reckon its all to do with the fact that too many nights were trying to do the same thing all at the same time. How many times i've seen the same djs booked to play night after night in the south west - even two bookings on the same night in some instances means that its not worth the distance travelling to see these names as they will be somehwere else soon enough anyway - if that makes sense.

That makes perfect sense mate.. It reminds me of a while back when me an my mates used to look forward to going out to regular nights a few weeks before.. But that might have changed because we go out every weekend now.

[K Front]

What an interesting topic..

I dont understand the scene at the moment, about a year an half ago places like dance academy were booming. Really good nights to go to and i would stay all night. But slowly i havnt been going as much because it doesnt have the same atmosphere as it did. Im not saying its crap now, its still a really good night.. Maybe its just me.
But also i think the devide in genres hasnt helped, because people prefer differents styles, and the djs are also changing.
Another thing i dont understand is nights like premonition, they always put on a really good night and the people just dont turn up. I know theres a lot of ravers out there! What are you all doing!?

I think you've a part of thinking trail I had before posting this originally. I didn't forsee change to show decline in a booming clubbing world... but I must accept that change happens and I have to change with it...

Yep, but the good thing about change is its fresh, exciting and unpredictable, so im looking forward to it..

[Voorheez]

Hakka, I feel the complete opposite - I think tracks from a while back were under-appreciated because they was so much good stuff around at the time they were released. Good tracks now are far more appreciated because there are so few around. Thus a track that I would have thought poor a year ago becomes decent enough now, because it's kinda like a drought of good tracks at the moment.
And Paul, I know what you mean, but it certainly doesn't apply to me with what i'm saying here - I like all forms of dance, I used to listen to funky house quite a bit, and I used to love trance and I feel exactly the same about these genres of dance, it's not just hard trance/hardstyle.

This is just my opinion, and hopefully everyone on this board now knows me enough to know that this isn't the kind of thing I would come out with filppantly.