something deffo needs done...

[Kells]

as far as this thread goes in general, i've seen loads of promoters **** up by booking big names and having no-one turn up, even back in the so-called glory days. It was invariably because they didn't know what they were doing, didn't know the local punters, probably never went out themselves and held the mistaken belief that spending loads of money on a big name would guarantee them hundreds of heads through the door. I'd say that's likely to be the case here too tbh

Big name djs with successful careers earning loads of money like speedy j are the end result of a succesful mature party scene/culture/whatever, they don't guarantee its existence in themselves, just by turning up and hey presto partytime

In other words or to put it short, No matter who the hell you have on the bill, you still have to promote the arse out of it to get the end result..

if you dont you WILL loose out

[dirty_bass]

New methods of promotion are needed as well.

Relying on flyers alone just doesn`t cut it

[theledge]

In other words or to put it short, No matter who the hell you have on the bill, you still have to promote the arse out of it to get the end result..

if you dont you WILL loose out

to be honest i think the words promote the night kind of put the wrong spin on what is needed. if you mean loads of glossy flyers i don't agree, what is needed is the creation of a unique excitement factor, bubbling up via word of mouth....not just another manuactured night with a star name but a real local social gathering....this doesn't come from flyers, it can probably only be achieved by years of cultivating relationships and friendships across your local community, sweating it out on the dancefloor or doing whatever you do best, people will then listen to you and come to your party cos they're your friends and not just consumers

and of course that makes it a pleasure for you too :)

[theledge]

you want people to come because it's going to be a great party, not because they're techno obsessives who can't miss a helping of speedy j

[Mucky Beats]

yeh its deffo not about how many flyers you get printed and how big ur posters are or if you book big names ! its all about making people belive they will have a great night ,... that said for big numbers got to have right djs on and they tend to cost money. i feel you really got to get a following before you book big djs as with anything you got to build reputation and techno is 100% like that as many of us have been to techno nights with some well known techno dj on and there are like 20 people in and its not nice really is it. and so people need to trust the event is gunna be going off and that takes word of mouth, thing is there are no trade secrets for this i dont think anyway hehe ! think its all about getting out there and making people beleve in you and make sure every night is rocking.

[theledge]

it's all about the banter

reckon local djs are great for most occasions, seems you've got a good scene for that in wales, still it's good to get a big name in if a) they're ****ing brilliant b) they've got a sound attitude c) they're worth what you pay them if not financially then in what else they bring with them

[Mucky Beats]

yeh deffo mate i get what you are saying, when i use to run events in wales we would have like one decent headliner every so often as there worht the money and help keep things fresh and are great at what they do. i think its great in more rural places to as there aint so much on so people make effort when something is on to turn out.

but now with the event i run in manchester we can afford to get the bigger names as its a much bigger sceane and place and mainly people are more willing to travel to the city.

[theledge]

ok i'm a bit behind the times,

[mattboyslim]

New methods of promotion are needed as well.

Relying on flyers alone just doesn`t cut it

something i've noticed up here is that people don't even pay attention to flyers anymore. The only time they probably come into contact with them is in a flyer pack given out outside a venue, and we've all been in that cunted state, leaving a venue, and thought 'yeah, great, roach material'. Chances of people actually reading it, let alone remembering what they've read is pretty slim.

Doesn't help that the council have introduced a license system (at high cost) to flyer in the city, so there aren't the saturday afternoon flyer teams.

We find well designed posters, in the right areas, do the job for us, with the internet promo to back it up. And as previously mentioned, building a 'community' around your event is the best way to spread word of mouth, and if you can do things this way, slowly getting bigger names on when you know you can afford it, you'll create a hype around your event that grows with you.

We're in a lucky position that our venue works with us, and for us. Not many promoters experience this with venues, and we've been messed about in the past

[Kells]

to be honest i think the words promote the night kind of put the wrong spin on what is needed. if you mean loads of glossy flyers i don't agree, what is needed is the creation of a unique excitement factor, bubbling up via word of mouth....not just another manuactured night with a star name but a real local social gathering....this doesn't come from flyers, it can probably only be achieved by years of cultivating relationships and friendships across your local community, sweating it out on the dancefloor or doing whatever you do best, people will then listen to you and come to your party cos they're your friends and not just consumers

and of course that makes it a pleasure for you too :)

trust me flyers are a very very VERY small part of a good promotion.!!! not many people get to actually see a flyer...
Im not gonna sit here and type exactly what i call a good promotion, as that is my business as im sure you can appreciate, but believe me, i DO NOT mean loads of glossy flyers Lol..and i speak out of years experience...

Of course an event has to always have some degree of excitement factor, this is why people wanna come aint it? then of course people talk about the event giving word of mouth.as you mention, this is another part of promotion.... i mean if a night looks boring or un imaganative why would peopke wanna go in the first place or re visit a second time and so on..., i am not sure if you really understand what promoting an event really involves, especially in hard citys like Leeds for instance...it will be very similar for any big City..

take this one for example, last time Beltram was at Joy, our mates had Dave Clarke and Technasia on the same night in the same town, beltram and clarke even thought this was mad, but it was out of our hands, our event was marketed first. (i dropped beltram off at clarkes hotel for drinks), both nights were a sucess but still, we had to work our asses of... as friends were split with decisions on where to go, so you deffo meed more than just friends to be your customers and as i stressed before flyers make for a tiny part of the whole package.

also can you explain why the word "promote" puts a wrong spin on things....if you dont promote the event, their will be No event hehe, and even if you cultivate hundereds of friends as you say, you still have to promote it to these people dont you..


Out of interest, have you actually ever put on a event? i dont ask this question in a funny way im just interested to see where you are at with this..


I really do think the event in question at the start of this thread is down to lack of promotion, and/or lack of promotion to the right people etc., its hard for me to judge as i know little of the promotors in question so i reserve my words...

Hope i have made some sense here to you

[RDR]

There are other factors to take into account when it comes to flyers as well, years ago it was possible to promote on the night with runners giving out flyers to wandering people town centres, now thats not possible in leeds and probably manchester as the city councils will be more than rapid in charging promoters hundreds, possibly thousands to clean up the mess left by non-intersted punters throwing them around the streets.

I'd be intersted in hearing peoples ideas on how to get around this.. wandering trade gathering... I know its a small part, but never-the-less can be quite lucrative on the door.

Its good to see people here putting "The Party" up at the top of this tree rather than the performer. I want to go to a safe, friendly, well catered for event. If i wanted randomness i would wait for free parties to rock up during the summer. The days of the meat market are over... at least as part of a techno event.

[theledge]

trust me flyers are a very very VERY small part of a good promotion.!!! not many people get to actually see a flyer...
Im not gonna sit here and type exactly what i call a good promotion, as that is my business as im sure you can appreciate, but believe me, i DO NOT mean loads of glossy flyers Lol..and i speak out of years experience...

Of course an event has to always have some degree of excitement factor, this is why people wanna come aint it? then of course people talk about the event giving word of mouth.as you mention, this is another part of promotion.... i mean if a night looks boring or un imaganative why would peopke wanna go in the first place or re visit a second time and so on..., i am not sure if you really understand what promoting an event really involves, especially in hard citys like Leeds for instance...it will be very similar for any big City..

take this one for example, last time Beltram was at Joy, our mates had Dave Clarke and Technasia on the same night in the same town, beltram and clarke even thought this was mad, but it was out of our hands, our event was marketed first. (i dropped beltram off at clarkes hotel for drinks), both nights were a sucess but still, we had to work our asses of... as friends were split with decisions on where to go, so you deffo meed more than just friends to be your customers and as i stressed before flyers make for a tiny part of the whole package.

also can you explain why the word "promote" puts a wrong spin on things....if you dont promote the event, their will be No event hehe, and even if you cultivate hundereds of friends as you say, you still have to promote it to these people dont you..


Out of interest, have you actually ever put on a event? i dont ask this question in a funny way im just interested to see where you are at with this..


I really do think the event in question at the start of this thread is down to lack of promotion, and/or lack of promotion to the right people etc., its hard for me to judge as i know little of the promotors in question so i reserve my words...

Hope i have made some sense here to you

i dislike the word 'promotion' because to me it conjures up thoughts of glossy flyers, press releases and general marketing schtum, now of course these all have a place, i'm just saying that there's more to it than that.

to be honest when i feel someone is trying to 'promote a night' at me, they usually get a polite smile followed by the short shrift they deserve. glossy flyers don't (usually) cut the mustard. i get excited about a night when there's a real word of mouth factor, my friends are going, when i feel there's going to be a great party (plus the bonus of seeing a great techno act at the same time)

of course creating this is easier said than done. hence why most new techno nights **** up.

to be honest i wasn't aiming the previous post at you, i probably shouldn't have carelessly quoted you. ;)

i am not sure if you really understand what promoting an event really involves, especially in hard citys like Leeds for instance...it will be very similar for any big City..

I cut my techno teeth in Leeds as it goes, lived there for years, ran techno nights at the west indian centre a few years ago. Think i left before Joy started but i heard you guys are doing a great job up there :)

[Kells]

i dislike the word 'promotion' because to me it conjures up thoughts of glossy flyers, press releases and general marketing schtum, now of course these all have a place, i'm just saying that there's more to it than that.

to be honest when i feel someone is trying to 'promote a night' at me, they usually get a polite smile followed by the short shrift they deserve. glossy flyers don't (usually) cut the mustard. i get excited about a night when there's a real word of mouth factor, my friends are going, when i feel there's going to be a great party (plus the bonus of seeing a great techno act at the same time)

of course creating this is easier said than done. hence why most new techno nights **** up.

to be honest i wasn't aiming the previous post at you, i probably shouldn't have carelessly quoted you. ;)




I cut my techno teeth in Leeds as it goes, lived there for years, ran techno nights at the west indian centre a few years ago. Think i left before Joy started but i heard you guys are doing a great job up there :)

Cool mate, what event did you run, Must have been a while as its almost 5 years Joy has been running (legally) now hehe (how time flies)

i was under the inpression you aimed it as me/us but i now realise you hadnt hehe, i had to make a stand as we put a hell of alot into our events, not just money but alot of (too much in fact) of our personal time, if we didnt their would, to put it simple, be no Joy...Leeds is extremely hard now for techno, almost imposibble to do it on a very regular basis, as i said in a previous post, Alot of leeds think they are listening to techno when they are not, they come to a place like Joy etc and crap themself hahaha.
You really have to work it hard and make sure you reach the correct people to market the event to. hence the reason its so important to know your crowd, i think this is a point you even touched on earlier..
Alot of our crowd travel from out of town.


also just to reply to RDR, we actually do have people flyer on the streets still, and get away with it :) Just!! but its very hard to do so, the council have really clamped down, we have also had fines for illegal fly postering and all sorts of other troubles in the past

:)

[Little_Fella!]

Ive said it before, music IS the very essence of change, it revels in change, without change it wouldnt be exciting at all. Sure the wave will come back, but then no two waves are alike.

Techno in its very nature is supposed to be at the cutting edge of technology, yet I see so many people stuck in 1995, or 1990 or 1985... nothing wrong with that per-se but at what point does a person become an echo of technology rather than the sharpened blade of the music that made them sit up and take notice.

Or do we believe that we are different? Do we truly believe that we are nothing like the majority of bands who play covers or busk to make money so they can follow their art or song writing? What is a DJ if not a person who plays covers? When are we going to admit to ourselves that the special position we put ourselves in when we became "Techno" isnt really that special and the world owes us nothing... except that which we work hard enough to make for ourselves.

Yeah, very well put and I think everyone likes to believe that their particular genre of music is the most special on the planet - - and yet there is the reality that you mention...

My motivation to do something in the world of Techno is purely because it is a type of music that for a long time would throw at you sounds and scapes that you have never heard before, and emotional journeys within a dance music format that I had never been on, which I struggled with at first, but then got the point and fell in love with...

What is the motivation these days to put in the large amount of effort, physically and emotionally, that is required to run a moderately successfull night... surely the initial motivation has to come from within in order to sustain the emotional drive that will keep your belief system in place when the going gets tough.??? ....hmmm:coffee:

[Little_Fella!]

Loads iof folk came especially to see him play @ Joy, we had a hell of alot of people calling about the event and asking about him, even after the event we had calls asking when the bloody event was...which is annoying !!

Let's not forget 'The Advent' were on that night aswell, which I really enjoyed...

T'was a good show and people were queuing early which was a good sign... the headline acts were being mentioned by people while I stood outside, so that goes to show that they had their pulling power...

I had a good shimmy round Leeds and it is true that you have your work cut out as almost everywhere is set up for beer culture and fashion parade, which out of pure association punters will integrate in to... which means you have to increase your promotional efforts to fight against the 'sheep' mentality'... hmmm

[Kells]

Let's not forget 'The Advent' were on that night aswell, which I really enjoyed...

T'was a good show and people were queuing early which was a good sign... the headline acts were being mentioned by people while I stood outside, so that goes to show that they had their pulling power...

I had a good shimmy round Leeds and it is true that you have your work cut out as almost everywhere is set up for beer culture and fashion parade, which out of pure association punters will integrate in to... which means you have to increase your promotional efforts to fight against the 'sheep' mentality'... hmmm

Advent was fantastic :)

and what you metion here regarding leeds is spot on mate, its good you have recognised this and im glad somebody else has now highlighted this on here, its going to get worse.....watch this space, leeds will be changing even more soon....im not sure its a good thing, well im sure its not, especially for the more purist club nights like Joy....

Theirs far too many sheep in the city, who dont go out for the music...massive shame..

[theledge]

Advent was fantastic :)

and what you metion here regarding leeds is spot on mate, its good you have recognised this and im glad somebody else has now highlighted this on here, its going to get worse.....watch this space, leeds will be changing even more soon....im not sure its a good thing, well im sure its not, especially for the more purist club nights like Joy....

Theirs far too many sheep in the city, who dont go out for the music...massive shame..

it wasn't always like that was it, the entire city has gone upmarket over the last decade and the population has changed a lot

even the students are of a better off and less fun-loving calibre these days due to the university doing so well

[Kells]

it wasn't always like that was it, the entire city has gone upmarket over the last decade and the population has changed a lot

even the students are of a better off and less fun-loving calibre these days due to the university doing so well

So true...

[clubsynthetic]

i mind that night fuk-nut...

the guys promoting it hardly done any promotion for it at all. and i was always out flyering left right an centre.

i also think sucess comes in waves when it comes to doing a clubnight.

no matter who it is, some you win, some you don't.