room acoustics

[dirty_bass]

simple solution, especially if you live in rented property, buy the new jbl room correction monitors.
Stunning, and far better than faffing about with foam, unless you are an accoustic technician.
There is some great new room correction software out now, made by M-Audio I think??
I`ll find the link, but it works on the same principle as the JBLs, but is a lot cheaper.
Basically it analyses your room, and applies filters prior to your sound card output to correct for standing waves etc.

Other than that, bass traps in the corners (verticle and horizontal, anti-scatter/reflection tiles, to either side of the listening spot, and if the wall behind is close, just behind as well.
Possibly some deflectors directly above the monitoring position as well, to essentially stop any symmetrical modes being present.

All this can set you back a fair wack, more than 250.

I think the new room mode correction software costs about 250 AND it moves wherever your studio moves.

I plumped for the monitors, and man, I`m so happy I nearly cry every time I switch them on.
My mastering has improved so much since I got em

[p_brane]

cheers for the feedback guys,

@DB- dont think ill be forking out for any new monitors for a while yet so the JBL's are out. might have a look at some of the software progs though.

@MarkEG - magic mate will have a good read of this.

its a bit of an odd room really, rectangular with a window at one end and a stud wall jutting out the other, narrowing the room down to half its width. currently set up along the longest wall next to the window (its also my office). but me thinking i need to have a move around.

anyone know what effect having a window behind the monitors will make? oh there front ported by the way

once again cheers

[MARK ANXIOUS]

now, i was reading about room mode correction software. hmm this is very intererting. couldn't see anything by m-audio though???????

[MARK ANXIOUS]

cheers for the feedback guys,

@DB- dont think ill be forking out for any new monitors for a while yet so the JBL's are out. might have a look at some of the software progs though.

@MarkEG - magic mate will have a good read of this.

its a bit of an odd room really, rectangular with a window at one end and a stud wall jutting out the other, narrowing the room down to half its width. currently set up along the longest wall next to the window (its also my office). but me thinking i need to have a move around.

anyone know what effect having a window behind the monitors will make? oh there front ported by the way

once again cheers

well presumming you'll put the speakers on the wall with the window, the fact you've got a odd stud wall coming out at the back is great i would have thought cause it'll bounce the bass energy off in all sorts of directions and get rid of alot of it. also the window sounds good cause then alot of your bass energy will bugger off through the window and not be reflected back. i would work on a huge bass box at the back though (use that link i sent you to construct it) and definitely bass traps (you can order these like i did or if you're on a budget, that article tells you how to make these too)

good luck man!!!

[p_brane]

well presumming you'll put the speakers on the wall with the window, the fact you've got a odd stud wall coming out at the back is great i would have thought cause it'll bounce the bass energy off in all sorts of directions and get rid of alot of it. also the window sounds good cause then alot of your bass energy will bugger off through the window and not be reflected back. i would work on a huge bass box at the back though (use that link i sent you to construct it) and definitely bass traps (you can order these like i did or if you're on a budget, that article tells you how to make these too)

good luck man!!!

cant seem to find anything on the net about how windows effect the output. think i'm gonna move my desk around so the windows directly bhind the monitors, give it a try. the only thing then is that they'll both be bout 6" from the room corners which isnt ideal. but i know what your saying about the partition to the rear of the room, boy does the bass sound boomy stood there.


time to have a look on the sos website me thinks

[MARK ANXIOUS]

i have just done a load of reading up on this arc thing and my conclusions are simple. DONT buy it!!!!

Revolutionary Audyssey MultEQ® technology corrects frequency and phase response not only for the engineer’s ‘sweet spot’, but also multiple points in the room
...
Sonically ‘treat’ your room – get the sound of a $50,000 treated room for a fraction of the cost – so you can finally trust the sound of your studio


what a load of bollocks. the eq system is meant for home cinema, not professional music studios. seems to me like jbl are using a similar type of technology to this too, just to sell sub-standard monitors. mind you, they work for dirty, so there's something in them. hmm i need to check this shit out. i might order a pair of these jbl's on a 14 day money back thing and see what happens.....

until then, where did i put those hair clippers?? hehe

;)

[dirty_bass]

i have just done a load of reading up on this arc thing and my conclusions are simple. DONT buy it!!!!

Revolutionary Audyssey MultEQ® technology corrects frequency and phase response not only for the engineer’s ‘sweet spot’, but also multiple points in the room
...
Sonically ‘treat’ your room – get the sound of a $50,000 treated room for a fraction of the cost – so you can finally trust the sound of your studio


what a load of bollocks. the eq system is meant for home cinema, not professional music studios. seems to me like jbl are using a similar type of technology to this too, just to sell sub-standard monitors. mind you, they work for dirty, so there's something in them. hmm i need to check this shit out. i might order a pair of these jbl's on a 14 day money back thing and see what happens.....

until then, where did i put those hair clippers?? hehe

;)

JBLs are rated highly by professionals across the board.
Both Katz and SOS had almost no critisism which is extremely rare.
I trialed for 14 days and couldn`t resist.

As for the ARC, it`s a little early to make a decision based on it, as it is undergoing review buy a lot of proper studio pro`s at the mo.
I`d wait for their opinion to get a decent evaluation, but I know some of the guys at the MPG are looking into it also, and I am in regular contact with these guys.
Pro`s well beyond all our standing on here, so I should be able to get a very critical and anal evaluation from some serious audio heads pretty soon if anyone is interested.
Although there is one review I have found, and it`s a favourable one
http://www.harmony-central.com/artic...ultimedia_arc/

I wouldn`t advocate the use of RMC and no room treatment at all.
But very basic room treatment, and rmc will do better than clueless over treatment or bad amateur treatment of a room without professional audio consultation, which could end up "killing" the sound of a room.

[dirty_bass]

cant seem to find anything on the net about how windows effect the output. think i'm gonna move my desk around so the windows directly bhind the monitors, give it a try. the only thing then is that they'll both be bout 6" from the room corners which isnt ideal. but i know what your saying about the partition to the rear of the room, boy does the bass sound boomy stood there.


time to have a look on the sos website me thinks

Windows are highly relfective to highs and mids, so you may get some reflection problems.
I`d get some damping behing the monitors on windows to scatter the sound, otherwise you may find you get a slightly too toppy response, with odd delay.
As I said earlier, you basically want some kind of deflective surfaces around the listening spot, so to the left and right of the listening spot, on the walls directly opposite each other. On directlyabove the listening spot as well.
You don`t necessarily need foam tiles.
For top and mid frequencies, irregularly packed book shelves etc will do just as well.
You are basically trying to scatter the sounds to sopt any regular reflections causing trouble in the stereo filed, and boomyness.
Some diffusion in the "mirror" spots of the monitors will also help. Essentially, imagine the rear wall is a mirror, and whereever the moniros are reflected in the mirror, you also want to place some kind of scattering.
Don`t over damp a room, otherwise you will get a dead response making your mids and tops absorbed too much, and destroying a natural moitoring sound.

Bass nodes, standing waves can be a problem.
Get a synth, make a pure sine wave sound.
Draw in a declining scale in the low octaves (tdown to the point where the sound becomes inaudible).
Play this scale on repeat and sit in the listening spot.

Listen out for volume changes on notes in the scale.
And dips or rises will mean you have some nodes.

You`ll want to kill the bass energy with very very thick loose particle or breathable material (the air needs to pass all the way into the material for the soundwave to be fully damped, rather than reflected).
Rockwool, or insulation.
Or commerical bass traps.
Problem areas will be top corners behind the monitors, but really it`s a very complicated problem with the bass.
Walking around the room with above bass scale playing may help in locating problem areas.

Essentially you want as little symmetry between opposing surfaces as possible, and some good deep loose material to absorbe low bass waves.

Or use some RMC software.

[Jay Pace]

simple solution, especially if you live in rented property, buy the new jbl room correction monitors.
Stunning, and far better than faffing about with foam, unless you are an accoustic technician.
There is some great new room correction software out now, made by M-Audio I think??
I`ll find the link, but it works on the same principle as the JBLs, but is a lot cheaper.
Basically it analyses your room, and applies filters prior to your sound card output to correct for standing waves etc.

Other than that, bass traps in the corners (verticle and horizontal, anti-scatter/reflection tiles, to either side of the listening spot, and if the wall behind is close, just behind as well.
Possibly some deflectors directly above the monitoring position as well, to essentially stop any symmetrical modes being present.

All this can set you back a fair wack, more than 250.

I think the new room mode correction software costs about 250 AND it moves wherever your studio moves.

I plumped for the monitors, and man, I`m so happy I nearly cry every time I switch them on.
My mastering has improved so much since I got em

Hmmmm

I read up lots on the software. There's free stuff available - FIR filters that you can input into EQ and modelling programs that will even run as VSTs. The free stuff is very unfriendly to install and set up though if you don't know linux. And you need a measurement microphone to calibrate the impulse response.

I read a fairly good thing on SOS about the principles behind it not really making sense. That you can't correct a room, and applying an EQ curve and filter over the output is just adding another layer of wrong over the original perception of wrong. Plus the room is only 'corrected' at the exact point the measurement is taken. Move your head out of this exact point and your listening to something else entirely.

The general gist I got was the you can compensate a little to improve things, but you can never correct a room using filters and the only way to properly do it is to acounstically treat the room.

All a bit out of my depth, but made intersting reading. Was one of the audio geeks at SOS writing, will see if I can dig it out.