How many folk here play live sets with (mainly) live drum/synth synthysis

[RDR]

I've had some fun doing that, putting live guitars instead of the samples I usually use... Unfortunately went back to samples mostly, 'cos creative as my mate's playing was, a couple of pints and his timing went well shoddy

As for live, and being a hardware luddite, I run with 2 electribes playing their own loops, and my RM1-x doing the body of a tune sequencing loops on various other bits and bobs and mix and match that all together... I have the tunes set up in my head, and they are written as tunes that follow a pattern, but I can move bits about, extend a section if folk are liking it, or move on if they don't etc...

As said before, doing what I do, how I do it I think that is as live as I can with my set up and abilities...

Do still think my multi-coloured cable spaghetti is more visually interesting than a lap-top even if I really do need to get a driving licence and a large van very soon...

Thats the thing isnt it, a laptop looks horrible as musical device... even im embaressed about it, and its mine.

LOL

[davethedrummer]

my mates is an amazing guitar player and has some really good fx pedals, thinking of getting him to jam along sometime time see how it works!

it'll sound like guitar verses techno mark my words
no good will come of it
do not cross the streams

[dirty_bass]

it'll sound like guitar verses techno mark my words
no good will come of it
do not cross the streams

I agree, guitars and techno just don`t work, in fact, it sucks.

Only people who ever really got it almost right was cubanate.

[rhythmtech]

I agree, guitars and techno just don`t work, in fact, it sucks.

Only people who ever really got it almost right was cubanate.

agreed... and chris mccromack

[TechMouse]

@Tocsin: I can see what you're getting at, but really you're saying that for you the ability to play an instrument (i.e. some level of virtuosity) is a requirement for a "Live PA".

I don't hold with such a requirement. Virtuosity is basically a motor skill at the end of the day. A commendable one, and I'm a sucker for a good musician on any level, but there is much more to performance than the ability to play an instrument.

For me, doing a Live PA is similar to conducting an orchestra - you have a range of different instruments at your command. Much of it has to be pre-prepared. Many of the notes have to be at least pattern sequenced, and unless you're Tim Exile all of your samples will be pre-recorded. Your job is to marshal all of this stuff together into something that's at least listenable. You can make this as easy or as difficult as you like - but make it too easy and it's incredibly boring for both you and the crowd.

Have it set up so there is some flexibility how you navigate around your material, so you can detour in different directions as the mood takes you, and you're on to a winner.

This is something I'm thinking about a lot at the moment.

[rhythmtech]

@Tocsin: I can see what you're getting at, but really you're saying that for you the ability to play an instrument (i.e. some level of virtuosity) is a requirement for a "Live PA".

I don't hold with such a requirement. Virtuosity is basically a motor skill at the end of the day. A commendable one, and I'm a sucker for a good musician on any level, but there is much more to performance than the ability to play an instrument.

For me, doing a Live PA is similar to conducting an orchestra - you have a range of different instruments at your command. Much of it has to be pre-prepared. Many of the notes have to be at least pattern sequenced, and unless you're Tim Exile all of your samples will be pre-recorded. Your job is to marshal all of this stuff together into something that's at least listenable. You can make this as easy or as difficult as you like - but make it too easy and it's incredibly boring for both you and the crowd.

Have it set up so there is some flexibility how you navigate around your material, so you can detour in different directions as the mood takes you, and you're on to a winner.

This is something I'm thinking about a lot at the moment.

exactly.. i play a ton of instruments from electronic to acoustic but it doesnt mean i wanna use them in a pa. far to busy with other stuff

as steve said, the sound is paramount

[tocsin]

@Tocsin: I can see what you're getting at, but really you're saying that for you the ability to play an instrument (i.e. some level of virtuosity) is a requirement for a "Live PA".

I wouldn't say it's a "requirement." It's just my opinion on it. "Live" is something I've always held as meaning that there is a chance of mistake. Kind of like a trapese artist in a sense. It's personal opinion, but not any "requirement" I'm throwing out there. I've found plenty of "live" Ableton or Traktor sets quite enjoyable. You won't find me badgering someone over whether or not they actually played "live."

[acidsaturation]

For me, doing a Live PA is similar to conducting an orchestra - you have a range of different instruments at your command. Much of it has to be pre-prepared. Many of the notes have to be at least pattern sequenced, and unless you're Tim Exile all of your samples will be pre-recorded. Your job is to marshal all of this stuff together into something that's at least listenable. You can make this as easy or as difficult as you like - but make it too easy and it's incredibly boring for both you and the crowd.

Kind of how I've always described it.

[acidsaturation]

Maybe people should add a projector and show their laptop screen so people can see what they are really doing... Sorry I meant so people can add some more visual excitement to their sets

*runs* tee hee

I just like playing with my knob(s)

[RDR]

Maybe people should add a projector and show their laptop screen so people can see what they are really doing... Sorry I meant so people can add some more visual excitement to their sets

*runs* tee hee

I just like playing with my knob(s)

Crude child, they're called Potentiometers

That is all.

[tocsin]

Maybe people should add a projector and show their laptop screen so people can see what they are really doing... Sorry I meant so people can add some more visual excitement to their sets

*runs* tee hee

I just like playing with my knob(s)

Haha. Well, I actually agree with this 100%. In 90% of the live techno performances I've done, one person has always been manning an Arkaos terminal hooked up to a projector to provide a live visual show. I've even done that when just DJing solo. For most techno, whether it's turntables or a live performance, it's boring for most of the crowd to watch someone on the setup. Only downside to doing live visuals is that, in order to make it something cool, it's an entirely separate task that takes up a lot of time in preparation. But, in my opinion, it's worth it.

[rhythmtech]

just add a few midi controllers. makes life more interesting for you and the crowd as (if you're bothered about it) you spend much more time fuking with sound and actually look like you're doing something other than checking your mail!!! ;)

the only time i ever use my mouse is for starting up the laptop or if i cant remember which clips or scenes are mapped to my qwerty (i really should get little stickers!)

[dirty_bass]

Who gives a flying **** how interesting it looks?
How interesting is it to see a guitarist wank the fretboard? I`ve Been into guitar band music for longer than I have been into electronics, and I`ve seen countless gigs. I find nothing interesting about someone playing a guitar or drums anymore, as I`ve seen it so many times, but I don`t suddenly expect musicians to start playing more than 1 instrument at once just to keep me interested.
The sound coming out of the speakers is paramount, and as long as I can see there is someone playing the sublime music I`m listening to, that`s enough for me.

I thought clubs were about dancing and drinking and munting and celebrating life. I want people to dance, not trainspot me all night to see my every exact move. When did we become dancing monkeys???
As long as the crowd get some indication that your performance is honest then shouldn`t that be enough?

If people aren`t entertained enough by the music and need to come and stare at the performer rather than dance, then the music itself needs a re-think.

[tocsin]

Who gives a flying **** how interesting it looks?

From my experience, the audience.

How interesting is it to see a guitarist wank the fretboard?

Guitar players find it interesting in the same way turntablists find watching a turntablist perform interesting, in addition to a crowd. But, especially for bands that aren't doing anything all that interesting to watch with their instruments, stage shows are no stranger to such performances either.

I don`t suddenly expect musicians to start playing more than 1 instrument at once just to keep me interested.

That's missing the point though if you're respnding to me.

The sound coming out of the speakers is paramount, and as long as I can see there is someone playing the sublime music I`m listening to, that`s enough for me.

Consider yourself a minority. For many, sound is a factor, but not paramount. It's why people with a good sound, and also a good visual aspect, always seem to entertain the crowd more than those who just have a good sound.

I thought clubs were about dancing and drinking and munting and celebrating life. I want people to dance, not trainspot me all night to see my every exact move. When did we become dancing monkeys???

One of the main reasons I incorporate visuals into just about everything when I can. I'm not a dancing monkey and already know it will pretty much be boring to watch what I'm doing. Yet, for odd reasons, when stuck in noticable view, people do tend to stare unless you direct their attention elsewhere. So, why not make it fun and add another layer to things?

As long as the crowd get some indication that your performance is honest then shouldn`t that be enough?

"Should" is not a realistic element here.

If people aren`t entertained enough by the music and need to come and stare at the performer rather than dance, then the music itself needs a re-think.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. In my experience, it's never been the case, even though most people would say the music needed a rethink because it was "hardcore." But, that's chinstroker nonsense. Adding another layer to a performance, particularly visual, isn't about pleasing and distracting chinstrokers. It's about directing the attention of the crowd in general away from something that would otherwise be boring and making something that much more enjoyable.

[dirty_bass]

From my experience, the audience.



Guitar players find it interesting in the same way turntablists find watching a turntablist perform interesting, in addition to a crowd. But, especially for bands that aren't doing anything all that interesting to watch with their instruments, stage shows are no stranger to such performances either.



That's missing the point though if you're respnding to me.



Consider yourself a minority. For many, sound is a factor, but not paramount. It's why people with a good sound, and also a good visual aspect, always seem to entertain the crowd more than those who just have a good sound.



One of the main reasons I incorporate visuals into just about everything when I can. I'm not a dancing monkey and already know it will pretty much be boring to watch what I'm doing. Yet, for odd reasons, when stuck in noticable view, people do tend to stare unless you direct their attention elsewhere. So, why not make it fun and add another layer to things?



"Should" is not a realistic element here.



Perhaps. Perhaps not. In my experience, it's never been the case, even though most people would say the music needed a rethink because it was "hardcore." But, that's chinstroker nonsense. Adding another layer to a performance, particularly visual, isn't about pleasing and distracting chinstrokers. It's about directing the attention of the crowd in general away from something that would otherwise be boring and making something that much more enjoyable.

I dunno man, I can only speak from experience.
I gave up DJing altogether in 2002.
I`ve been playing live regularly since, and I`ve never really had a problem with the visual issue. I`m probably more acitve than a DJ in terms of finger fiddling, and most good clubs have lights, projections ,lasers etc that cost 10`s of thousands of pounds, specifically designed to provide visual distraction.
Acknowledging the crowd especially when they are enjoying themselves, and most importantly getting myself into my music fully so I can ride the crest of the sound is generally all that`s needed.

There aren`t that many regular pa`s on the circuit really, but the good ones I have seen, (Seb Marks, DDR, BMB, Tim Exile, Dean Rodell, Paul Cortex to name a few)
have seemed to do all right in the keeping it humming stakes. Admittedly when people see it`s a pa and can see actions translate into audible changes they get more excited, but I`ve never seen people walk away because said performer isn`t tap dancing.

Maybe I`m missing something??

[TechMouse]

I`ve never seen people walk away because said performer isn`t tap dancing.

Tap dancing is a definite plus, though.

[dirty_bass]

Tap dancing is a definite plus, though.

It is but have you tried walking in them damn shoes after 8 or 9 sambucas?
Fecking nightmare.

[tocsin]

I dunno man, I can only speak from experience.
I gave up DJing altogether in 2002.

Same here. I DJ here and there.

I`ve been playing live regularly since, and I`ve never really had a problem with the visual issue. I`m probably more acitve than a DJ in terms of finger fiddling, and most good clubs have lights, projections ,lasers etc that cost 10`s of thousands of pounds, specifically designed to provide visual distraction.

And this is probably a very big difference between both regions and the actual music being played in that most of the venues in my locale (NYC) that would book what I've done as a live PA do not have expensive visual set ups. Most didn't even have basic lights. And for a number of the ones that do, they are just very basic stage style lights. Old disco effect. No lasers or anything truly pretty. That's not the only reason, or even the main one, that I've enjoyed incorporating visuals though. It's just another layer to the music and, if you are trying to communicate a message with it, it helps significantly.

Maybe I`m missing something??

Yeah. I'm not stressing in the slightest that DJs or performers need to be dancers.

[dirty_bass]

I`ve often thought of incorporating visuals into my music purely because I am an artist (for want of a better word)
I have a degree in animation and still keenly pursue my visual artistry, however, you can`t do a good job of the music, if you are trying to do visuals as well. It`s simply too much, and the quality of one performance will be reduced to compensate for the other
Jack of all trades, master of none etc.

That`s why we have VJ`s

If there was some interactive plugin like you get on winamp that could sync to ableton, say, then that would be gravey.

[tocsin]

I`ve often thought of incorporating visuals into my music purely because I am an artist (for want of a better word)
I have a degree in animation and still keenly pursue my visual artistry, however, you can`t do a good job of the music, if you are trying to do visuals as well. It`s simply too much, and the quality of one performance will be reduced to compensate for the other
Jack of all trades, master of none etc.

That's why one person always manned each perspective part in the setups I've played. We'd sometimes trade up here and there. But, I've never done a Live PA where I was running a sequencer, playing melodies, and doing visuals all at the same time by myself. However, this is actually something that could be pulled off pretty well with Arkaos if one did the proper advance preparation. Everything is controllable by MIDI, with the parameters being assignable.