How many folk here play live sets with (mainly) live drum/synth synthysis

[TechMouse]

I`ve never seen people walk away because said performer isn`t tap dancing.

Tap dancing is a definite plus, though.

[dirty_bass]

Tap dancing is a definite plus, though.

It is but have you tried walking in them damn shoes after 8 or 9 sambucas?
Fecking nightmare.

[tocsin]

I dunno man, I can only speak from experience.
I gave up DJing altogether in 2002.

Same here. I DJ here and there.

I`ve been playing live regularly since, and I`ve never really had a problem with the visual issue. I`m probably more acitve than a DJ in terms of finger fiddling, and most good clubs have lights, projections ,lasers etc that cost 10`s of thousands of pounds, specifically designed to provide visual distraction.

And this is probably a very big difference between both regions and the actual music being played in that most of the venues in my locale (NYC) that would book what I've done as a live PA do not have expensive visual set ups. Most didn't even have basic lights. And for a number of the ones that do, they are just very basic stage style lights. Old disco effect. No lasers or anything truly pretty. That's not the only reason, or even the main one, that I've enjoyed incorporating visuals though. It's just another layer to the music and, if you are trying to communicate a message with it, it helps significantly.

Maybe I`m missing something??

Yeah. I'm not stressing in the slightest that DJs or performers need to be dancers.

[dirty_bass]

I`ve often thought of incorporating visuals into my music purely because I am an artist (for want of a better word)
I have a degree in animation and still keenly pursue my visual artistry, however, you can`t do a good job of the music, if you are trying to do visuals as well. It`s simply too much, and the quality of one performance will be reduced to compensate for the other
Jack of all trades, master of none etc.

That`s why we have VJ`s

If there was some interactive plugin like you get on winamp that could sync to ableton, say, then that would be gravey.

[tocsin]

I`ve often thought of incorporating visuals into my music purely because I am an artist (for want of a better word)
I have a degree in animation and still keenly pursue my visual artistry, however, you can`t do a good job of the music, if you are trying to do visuals as well. It`s simply too much, and the quality of one performance will be reduced to compensate for the other
Jack of all trades, master of none etc.

That's why one person always manned each perspective part in the setups I've played. We'd sometimes trade up here and there. But, I've never done a Live PA where I was running a sequencer, playing melodies, and doing visuals all at the same time by myself. However, this is actually something that could be pulled off pretty well with Arkaos if one did the proper advance preparation. Everything is controllable by MIDI, with the parameters being assignable.

[dirty_bass]

Archoas is essentially the visual equivalent of loop triggering though.
I`d like something more reactive.
Or has it got better?

[tocsin]

Archoas is essentially the visual equivalent of loop triggering though.
I`d like something more reactive.
Or has it got better?

Kinda. It can be used that way on a very basic level. But, there's more ways to manipulate what you work with now. Essentially, it's a multi-layered VJ interface that is controllable with a MIDI keyboard. You can assign movies, still images, flash files, live input from a camera, numerous built in FX, and add-on "freeframe" plugins to the keys of a MIDI keyboard. For something you want to loop repeatedly, or for an effect you just want to stay on, you can set a key to "latch" so whatever is assigned to it continues running until you hit it again. Otherwise, it only runs for as long as you hold the key.

It's fairly different from a number of VJ apps out there and, given I use a MIDI keyboard for just about everything, was the most intuitive for me. Plus, the way in which you can build effects and imagery on top of each other is very cool. The biggest power in it, in my opinion, is the ability to set just about every possible variable in the thing, on the base level and the effects level, to a knob or slider.

[dirty_bass]

there`s no reactive 3d objects or fractals though
it`s just loops and effects?

[tocsin]

there`s no reactive 3d objects or fractals though
it`s just loops and effects?

There are reactive 3d objects, yes. And it's very cool if we're talking about the same thing. As for generating fractals, no, not really. There is one effect that does somehting similar. But, for fractals, I use Ultra Fractal to make my own to load into the thing, in addition to snagging some off the net. Real time fractal generation with that tool would kind of be a bad idea anyways since, if you did something fairly advanced, it would spike the CPU.

Snag the demo and give it a whirl. It's "trial ware." Fully functional the first 30 days.

http://www.arkaos.net

[dirty_bass]

yeah, I`ll give it a go

but what I`m looking for is nice 3d reactive stuff much like Milkdrop and R4 team make for Winamp

[tocsin]

yeah, I`ll give it a go

but what I`m looking for is nice 3d reactive stuff much like Milkdrop and R4 team make for Winamp

You mean reactive to the audio or reactive to what elements are on the screen? You can set your medias speed, and various effects, to be controlled by BPM of an incoming audio signal if that is what you are talking about. You also have various 3D effects that play off of what you already have going on the screen.

[dirty_bass]

You mean reactive to the audio or reactive to what elements are on the screen? You can set your medias speed, and various effects, to be controlled by BPM of an incoming audio signal if that is what you are talking about. You also have various 3D effects that play off of what you already have going on the screen.

I`m talking about morphing visuals based on algorythms that respond to sound or midi input.
Most VJ effects bore me to tears, as they are just layers of film footage with cliche effects

I was just rerading some VJ forums and it appears that arkaos isn`t appropriate at all for what I want. Although it appears that you can Vj with milkdrop!!!!

[clubsynthetic]

I think a guitar could work with techno...just because it has rarely been done good before (much) doesn't mean its nots going to happen..

But for visual aspect, i think these guys have it right on the money ;)

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ub_ibiza_1.jpg

[tocsin]

I`m talking about morphing visuals based on algorythms that respond to sound or midi input.
Most VJ effects bore me to tears, as they are just layers of film footage with cliche effects

Yes, you can do that.

I was just rerading some VJ forums and it appears that arkaos isn`t appropriate at all for what I want. Although it appears that you can Vj with milkdrop!!!!

You can sort of VJ with Milkdrop. More of a guessing game though, unless you fully understand the consequences of the formulas you're inputting on the fly.

[clubsynthetic]

as for that sort of thing your chatting about dirty bass, would you not need a NASA computer to run it?

[dirty_bass]

as for that sort of thing your chatting about dirty bass, would you not need a NASA computer to run it?

not at all, just had a good read about running milkdrop in VJ mode.
Just need a good graphics card.
Looks tastey

As for guitars in techno, if you understand production you`ll understand why it is so difficult for it to work.

Guitars take up a HUGE amount of room in the mix.
Listen to how drums and guitars are mixed in rock and nu metal
The drums have very little low end punch, the kicks very rarely thump, the middle areas are all left sparse to allow room for the guitar.
all areas techno uses in it`s own sound for strong percussion.

It is very very diffcult to get it to work, trust me.
I fought with it for years in the 90`s in the various industrial bands I was in, it`s a fecking nightmare.

[Kokotorobot]

not at all, just had a good read about running milkdrop in VJ mode.
Just need a good graphics card.
Looks tastey

just get some rackmount PC on there, a camera, graphics card, maybe some other sensors and hire/persuade someone who knows his shit about max msp jitter and you can have your extreme cutting edge music synced visuals right there

http://cycling74.com/

btw, does any of you guys know whether there is some midi controller which has potentiometres which return to original position (such as the pitch bend wheel)? or how to mod/change knobs so they act like it

[acidsaturation]

For me, doing a Live PA is similar to conducting an orchestra - you have a range of different instruments at your command. Much of it has to be pre-prepared. Many of the notes have to be at least pattern sequenced, and unless you're Tim Exile all of your samples will be pre-recorded. Your job is to marshal all of this stuff together into something that's at least listenable. You can make this as easy or as difficult as you like - but make it too easy and it's incredibly boring for both you and the crowd.

Kind of how I've always described it.

[RDR]

I`m talking about morphing visuals based on algorythms that respond to sound or midi input.
Most VJ effects bore me to tears, as they are just layers of film footage with cliche effects

I was just rerading some VJ forums and it appears that arkaos isn`t appropriate at all for what I want. Although it appears that you can Vj with milkdrop!!!!

Vjing is loads of fun, even with loops, it depends what you do with them as well how you use the effects inside them, arkaos is a horrid program, resolume i love to bits as well, on the fly resampling is cool. Having cameras set up around the club provides interactivity as well. VJing and getting people involved really gives another dimension to the club. I'd prefer loop stuff to no visuals as well.

[TechMouse]

This is something I'm looking at, slowly, as I find time.

Hopefully DVNT will pop up at some point, as he knows loads about this kind of thing.

Oh, and he knows the guy that wrote Milkdrop too.