roland mc-909 ???

[Aratron]

What you on about then ;)

PS - duly noted calvin.

wow thanks dude.

too me any synth would be useless. i had a rmx1 for 2 years and i knew how to turn it on that was about it.

though it was fun for a mess around.

i have seen a few midi keyboards recently that i ve been thinking of buying.

tbh i want a some active monitors.

idea for a new thread.

[acidsaturation]

Almost don't want to continue if it's getting so heated, but will do, carefully lol

I do agree with what massplanck is saying to some an extent - it's funny, I've not been about for a few months and it does suddenly seem like the universe has gone software crazy, and there's this overwhelming sense of "if you don't use Ableton you don't make good tunes"...

which doesn't really help people who want to do their own thing.

What happened to making a nice sound and having fun with what you like using. This upsets me sometimes, I enjoy may hardware, and would rather spend money on that than the same piece of software everyone else uses. It's almost like if you can't afford this that and the other (or don't want to) you can't be in this elite club. Techno was always like punk for me, underground and inclusive and about people using what resources they had to put on a show, now it seems to have gone like big business and if you can't make a perfect production product whatever other good things in your tunes don't matter.

And to be fair, if the sequencer on something is "shit" but someone can turn out a good end product with it, then that shows they have talent and skill in my mind... If they choose to do it the fiddly way, good on them!

[AcidTrash]

Yeah but Chris, you can only get so far with audio kit you find in skips. ;)

[acidsaturation]

Jealousy. Pure and Simple.

[massplanck]

Yeah. Sorry for adhoming you DB.

My main gripe comes from this standard "use abelton & a controller" reply that gets carted out when someone is interested in a bit of hardware or making music. Thats the most conformist answer you could give someone. Funnily enough some (if not all) of the best techno was made before abelton was even a glint in the eye of whoever.

I fully understand you arent going to create everything on one groovebox, but for the most important thing for a newcomer to making techno is not to get bogged down in the billions of VSTs and plugins and other such 'advice' on forums. I think getting hands on straight away is paramount ,then you can decide if its for you. Thats where people are going to be FORCED to twiddle knobs, ADSR, pitch & come up with some of their own sounds the very day they their box. Some of the best techno was born out of the limitations that people had with their equipment.

Like c'mon. We all know what abelton can do but how long would it take a newcomer to set stuff up & figure out how to map (the right) controllers and just jam?. I cant even get abelton doing what I want after years of using it!

[massplanck]

Also. Its funny how people say "it doesnt matter what you use" then say "use abelton" when hardware gets mentioned... just because they couldnt figure out the RM1X or whatever!

dismissing hardware = dismissing a lot of amazing techno music that was made with it, limitations & all.

[acidsaturation]

dismissing hardware = dismissing a lot of amazing techno music that was made with it, limitations & all.

:clap:

[tocsin]

Also. Its funny how people say "it doesnt matter what you use" then say "use abelton" when hardware gets mentioned... just because they couldnt figure out the RM1X or whatever!

dismissing hardware = dismissing a lot of amazing techno music that was made with it, limitations & all.

I think it's fair to lean towards software when giving "advice" nowadays based on affordability and range. Fact is, you can't pirate hardware and you're limited in what can be done with it. To expand your sound with hardware setups tends to require buying more hardware. Doesn't have to be a knock on hardware though.

Personally, I've done hybrid deals probably more than anything else, often involving an MC-303. The sequencer on it is basic and easy to use. None of the knobs send MIDI data though so it's REALLY limited in how basic it is. For the MC-909, I've messed with one and, in my opinion, it isn't worth the cash.

If the goal is to be able to do anything, owning a "techno in a box" tool isn't necesarilly a bad idea. Even the MC-303 has some decent sounds when run through some distortion. But, it is basically a glorified sampler at that point. I've used it's sequencer to trigger internal sounds run through a wah and distortion pedal, while also using it to trigger/sequence VSTi/DXis. I think one could probably find something just as useful as an MC-909 in that regards, but also cheaper.

For the record, software nazis are just as bad as hardware nazis, who used to drive me up a wall back in 1997. What I find kind of amusing is a solid majority of people who were hardware nazis back then are software nazis now. Fact is, if one has only toyed with something, or never done more than hear someone talk about it, one shouldn't give advice on it. They're doing nobody any service with that and become rather transparent to those of us who have used various pieces.

[TechMouse]

and there's this overwhelming sense of "if you don't use Ableton you don't make good tunes"...

I don't feel that at all.

There are a few people who will swear blind that hardware is the only way to go, for sure. I'm not sure I've heard any software evangelists, certainly not in the sense that they would suggest you can't do anything decent with hardware.

The plain demonstrable truth of the matter is that there are people doing great stuff with hardware and people doing great stuff with software.

The choice is largely an individual one, and different people will be more at home with different configurations.

As a rough rule of thumb (and this is just my opinion) hardware tends to give you better results "out of the box" at the expense of flexibility. Software gives you complete flexibility, but the trade off is that you have to work harder to get great sounds.

[tocsin]

As a rough rule of thumb (and this is just my opinion) hardware tends to give you better results "out of the box" at the expense of flexibility. Software gives you complete flexibility, but the trade off is that you have to work harder to get great sounds.

Yep. It's a learning curve issue on one hand, and a financial issue on another. There's not a chance in hell that I'd be able to buy a new piece of gear right now. I just don't have that kind of disposable income anymroe at the moment. However, it seems like every week, there is some new piece of cheap, and often free, software to experiment with. Personally, I think it's worth exploring more than hardware, as the software is constantly evolving, and is easilly replacable. When you buy a piece of hardware, what you see is what you get. Though, if you're in a position where you can afford to do both, that is by far the most fun option, and the most beneficial.

[massplanck]

I don't feel that at all.

There are a few people who will swear blind that hardware is the only way to go, for sure. I'm not sure I've heard any software evangelists, certainly not in the sense that they would suggest you can't do anything decent with hardware.
.

Well I certainly dont jump onto VST plugin threads and suggest that people should go out and buy an Access virus because VST plugins are shit. You have a thread here where some guy with a limited budget wants to buy a piece of hardware, and gets told to just use abelton & a controller. Then you have people who "have used more hardware than I have seen" saying this is shit & that is shit when in fact they dont actually own the aformentioned piece of kit (and actually liked the sounds from it).

If someone wants to spend money on hardware. Encourage them dont discourage them. If someone want to use a wholly software setup the same goes. But please let them experiment.

[TechMouse]

Well I certainly dont jump onto VST plugin threads and suggest that people should go out and buy an Access virus because VST plugins are shit.

Never said you did, but I've definitely heard more people espouse a "hardware or nothing" attitude than a "software or nothing".

You have a thread here where some guy with a limited budget wants to buy a piece of hardware, and gets told to just use abelton & a controller.

Limited budget is the point though.

Your bang:buck ratio with a cheap laptop & controller pisses on anything you will get with a hardware sequencer.

I don't doubt for a second that if you have the cash to buy a drum machine, sampler, synth and mixer then you can do mad stuff with hardware - and I've seen it done on many occasions by all sorts of people.

But compare that with bog standard laptop & cheap controller pound for pound - especially if you have a laptop already as many people do.

Buying all that specialist hardware is a spectacularly expensive way to find out that it's not your thing after all.

Then you have people who "have used more hardware than I have seen" saying this is shit & that is shit when in fact they dont actually own the aformentioned piece of kit (and actually liked the sounds from it).

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

In my experience the Roland Grooveboxes are pretty poor unless you want to make generic trance. (And who doesn't? :D)

You can get good sounds out of anything if you try hard enough, but you need something decent to be the backbone of your system. Something like an RS7K will do the job, but you'll be needing more hardware on top.

If someone wants to spend money on hardware. Encourage them dont discourage them. If someone want to use a wholly software setup the same goes. But please let them experiment.

Absolutely agree, but I still believe that for someone making their first forays into electronic music the computer route is the sensible entry point. Just my opinion of course.

[massplanck]

You can get good sounds out of anything if you try hard enough, but you need something decent to be the backbone of your system. Something like an RS7K will do the job, but you'll be needing more hardware on top.
.

Now is probably the time to be buying second hand hardware as lots of people are flogging off their old kit as they move over to software. I just got an Access Virus for 500 euro (370 sterling) (never ****ing used as the guy didnt like the sounds on it!).
I dunno. I know there is a cost issue. But there is alot to be said for saving up for something by eating beans for a year. Hardship usually end up meaning better music :)

[massplanck]

I actually swapped 100 records I didnt want for a korg electribe & I got a yamaha desk second hand (barely used) for 220 euro.
There is a yamaha RS7000 for sale on ebay right now for a "buy it now" price of 420 euros.

So for example lets say I had bought that RS today my nice little hardware setup of RS7000, 16 Channel Yamaha Desk, Electribe & Access Virus would have cost me 1140 euros & 100 records I dont like anymore. Hardly extortionate esp if you saved for a couple of years, Its well doable.

That RS7000 cost me 1600 quid in 2003!

[RDR]

Now is probably the time to be buying second hand hardware as lots of people are flogging off their old kit as they move over to software. I just got an Access Virus for 500 euro (370 sterling) (never ****ing used as the guy didnt like the sounds on it!).
I dunno. I know there is a cost issue. But there is alot to be said for saving up for something by eating beans for a year. Hardship usually end up meaning better music :)

Not sure about beans man... for a YEAR!... oh thats harcore ;)

But a superb point about the much cheapness of hardware.

PS - A Virus TI does beat loads of software synths its true..! amazing synth.. sadly VERY expensive though.

@Pete... those speakers were bang on ;) as IQ - he tested em.

[RDR]

Also. Its funny how people say "it doesnt matter what you use" then say "use abelton" when hardware gets mentioned... just because they couldnt figure out the RM1X or whatever!

dismissing hardware = dismissing a lot of amazing techno music that was made with it, limitations & all.

Hope you dont mean me, i owned 2 RM1x's and an RS7000 we used in our live set.

I liked em both but needed to do things the RM1x and Rs just werent capable of.

[massplanck]

I liked em both but needed to do things the RM1x and Rs just werent capable of.

I agree. The RS is not great for sequencing full songs the way I want to.. (i'll admit that db).. and tbh you need to have something running along side it like a virus or electribe to bypass that whole "techno in a box" sound. But NOTHING beats it for being instantly creative & fast to work with & I CAN get amazing sounds out of it. Its so horrible for me to program beats and record myself going nuts in abelton. HORRIBLE! To advise someone to try out software first could completly turn a person who is half decent at making music into a nervous wreck and vice versa.

So in future, If someone wants to buy a piece of hardware please let them go full steam ahead.

[massplanck]

oh. I wasnt pointing the finger at you chris just making a generalization!

apologies!

[SlavikSvensk]

who cares how someone makes music as long as it's good? there are many ways to skin a cat, so to speak...

...though hopefully one's music doesn't resemble the sound of a cat-skinning...i can only imagine :wot:

[tocsin]

who cares how someone makes music as long as it's good? there are many ways to skin a cat, so to speak...

...though hopefully one's music doesn't resemble the sound of a cat-skinning...i can only imagine :wot:

Believe it or not, some of mine comes close. ;)

Either way, back on topic, I would suggest against the MC-909. I had the MC-303 which was a lot more basic. The MC-909 is definitely nicer and an improvement from that but, from playing with it for a bit when a friend brought one over to my place one time, there's enough on it that just feels kind of gimmicky. I'm not sure anyone would learn an MC-909 any faster than a piece of software. But, that's not my point anyways. I'd recomend dropping the cash on a different sequencer/"techno in a box" instrument. There are ones out there that are a bit more stripped down in a beneficial way, both in features and price. Unfotunately, having not bought such a tool in over a decade, and being more of a software person at this point, I can't honestly recoment something in its place.