what is loop techno...?

[dan the acid man]

i can play guitar and i could read music although i've forgotten how to now, so this classes me as a musician ( i think ). It definetly is helping me in my productions as i already know about how many beats in a bar etc and what notes are in tune and which notes are'nt.

[jonnyspeed]

some people are saying ALL music is made from loops, poppycock!! you have to be careful when making such sweeping statements.
and to say techno producers arent musicians. thats a touchy one. you'd have to know the individual artist to know if he had any musical training, but is that all that being a msucian depends on?? i dont think it is.

agree. it ain't training but ability to be er... create music. oxford dictionary anybody?

[Ritzi Lee]

some people are saying ALL music is made from loops, poppycock!! you have to be careful when making such sweeping statements.
and to say techno producers arent musicians. thats a touchy one. you'd have to know the individual artist to know if he had any musical training, but is that all that being a msucian depends on?? i dont think it is.

well i think you really have 2 define for yourself.
what's a loop??




mathematically: a loop is something you can map to a circle.
because the circle is infinitly continues, so is the loop.

[Ritzi Lee]

and for me musicians are people who play live instruments.
not pre-programmed. but really live...

[tekku7181]

glenn wilson is loop techno at its best imo

[dB]

and for me musicians are people who play live instruments.
not pre-programmed. but really live...

:dontevengothere:

mmm, what about live P.A's? i know u may find it hard to believe but some people do actually play LIVE :roll:

[serox]

hmmm...som1 has described it correct i think (cant rem name now 2nd or 3rd post i think)

i thought loop techno was when you make the loop u want to go thru your track. it doesnt change ur build up just keeps going.

glenn wilson is a good example. isnt a good thing or a bad thing, alot of techno is made this way for a few reasons.

makes it simple to mix, fits together well with other looped tracks. also is quick to make, some people use the same loop over n over making small changes to it.

thats what i think anyway? pls correct me

[tekku7181]

glenn wilson live was great the one time i saw him at a party in bklyn

[serox]

yeh i heard hes hot live but snot at mixing. :roll:

[davethedrummer]

did anyone hear about the famous "5 minutes of silence " symphony by john cage, a man who has always said he made a living from his shortcomings as a musician.

well the idea wasn't just that the orchestra never played a note
it was the fact that when the conducter tapped his baton he got everyones attention
and they listened intently to their surroundings.
something they probably had never done in an auditorum before.

the experience becomes musical even though what you are listening to wouldn't normally be classed as music , just background "noise"
and this is the key to it all for me.

a musician is simply someone who can draw your attention to their sound
and make you realise it as music and not noise.

you don't need classical training or years of experience
just a good idea and the determination to make it happen.

that's the way i look at it anyways.

[TechnoWhore]

I agree with DtD's point...musician = peron(s) talented in the art of music (from the OED)

As for loop techno, IMHO, loop techno is for perons with a computer and loads of sample CDs :lol: :lol: :lol:

No attempt to program synths, write patterns etc...

Either way, when you are ****ed and high on lodsa chemies :clap: :clap:

you don't think "this is loop" this is MIDI"..just whether this is banging or not


ciao

[crime]

In what way you can show me that a techno producer is a musician??

Personally I've been bashing away on drums and guitars for years before I started writing techno, I'd always considered myself a musician of sorts, it amazes me that someone could think in this way.. So is techno not music then? What about all the old detroit stuff, rave music, whatever? this all has melody, and therefore is music (isn't it? forgive me if I'm wrong..) Believe it or not, there's techno being produced right now that has melody..

My personal definition of loop techno is listening to a record that sounds exactly the same wherever you put the needle on it, I hear so many records like this, completely structureless (To my ears anyway, maybe I just don't get it) which I find quite boring...

... I'm still really amazed... techno not music????

[tekku7181]

[quote="crime"]

In what way you can show me that a techno producer is a musician??

My personal definition of loop techno is listening to a record that sounds exactly the same wherever you put the needle on it, I hear so many records like this, completely structureless (To my ears anyway, maybe I just don't get it) which I find quite boring...

quote]

it can sound xacly the same or w/a slight variance,,like an xtra/diff hi hat or kick or vocal sample,,,its not structureless but has a more consitent structure throughout and the changes r more subtle and imo more appreciated than the typical track w/a predictable build up, the breakdown, the kick comes back and evryone is happy type track,,,,,a lot of these tracks r very short or at least they should be mixed in and out relatively quickly and this is where the structure(more typical defintion of...) comes in,,,its more on the dj to create a structure from the diff loopy tracks through good programming and tight xciting mixing,,,,a very understandable strory can be told like this although it may not be as obvious..i think

[DJZeMig_L]

I think maybe there is a little confution between minimal and loop...

Minimal can be quite repetitive but if it's really quality it will somehow keep u hooked 2 the point that seems like there is a different evolving something 2 it.

Crime is refering to the more Loop, meaning, some1 nabbed a loop, threw in some hats and let it run... do a few cuts, filter,.. and presto u got 3 new eps a month!! Still truth isn't black or white.. I know some Loop stuff that really rock and they r really simple, but the way the little twists and quirks were donne i makes then bonce!!!

Z

[bornaa]

did anyone hear about the famous "5 minutes of silence " symphony by john cage, a man who has always said he made a living from his shortcomings as a musician.

well the idea wasn't just that the orchestra never played a note
it was the fact that when the conducter tapped his baton he got everyones attention
and they listened intently to their surroundings.
something they probably had never done in an auditorum before.

the experience becomes musical even though what you are listening to wouldn't normally be classed as music , just background "noise"
and this is the key to it all for me.

a musician is simply someone who can draw your attention to their sound
and make you realise it as music and not noise.

you don't need classical training or years of experience
just a good idea and the determination to make it happen.

that's the way i look at it anyways.

woah dood great post. musicians for me would be defined as people who want to control,shape & direct sound somwhere, play many shaped or non shaped sounds together and in most cases trying to achieve their harmony(altho this last one hasnt much to do with a definition of a musician in my opinion). i would even say, as dave put it nicely, that a musician would be a person who would just direct you and make you percieve plain everyday sounds, it doesnt even have to be their sound. not to even play it or compose it, just to draw your atention to a sound or create a soroundings where, like cage, he actualy used his public as his instrument. i would say if you intentionaly influence/shape/direct sound, your a musician.... everyone is a musician, just dont realise it yet ... every sound is music if you can percieve it that way....its just a unshaped untained sound you might hear next time you go down to the record store to buy some vinyls ;)

[jonnyspeed]

[quote="crime"]

My personal definition of loop techno is listening to a record that sounds exactly the same wherever you put the needle on it...

quote]

...completely agree. My old mum says all my music is like that - all you can hear is the same boom boom boom, I'm glad I ain't your neighbours... :lol:

...and no mum, that is not perfectly loud enough

[crime]

it can sound xacly the same or w/a slight variance,,like an xtra/diff hi hat or kick or vocal sample,,,its not structureless but has a more consitent structure throughout and the changes r more subtle and imo more appreciated than the typical track w/a predictable build up, the breakdown, the kick comes back and evryone is happy type track,,,,,a lot of these tracks r very short or at least they should be mixed in and out relatively quickly and this is where the structure(more typical defintion of...) comes in,,,its more on the dj to create a structure from the diff loopy tracks through good programming and tight xciting mixing,,,,a very understandable strory can be told like this although it may not be as obvious..i think

It got overdone though... I remember a time when it was almost impossible to buy records like this (back in '94/'95) and the only people really doing this kind of stuff were The Advent and the old "Reload" label from belgium, and so it sounded really fresh... when you have 50+ labels putting out 10 records a year of this kind of stuff, anything really good gets lost in the fodder, and sadly, this is what happened, the sound got done to death, this is why I grew tired of it personally... I've never heard anything as good as Dynamic Structures III on Reload or the Advent's number 8 on Internal (I think? the one with "Retreat" on) since... also when these records came out, you never used to hear whole sets of them, they were cool in the mix with other stuff, it's when certain djs seemed to put there blinkers on and play whole sets of this kind of stuff, really killed it for me...

[crime]

the typical track w/a predictable build up, the breakdown, the kick comes back and evryone is happy type track

I prefer some crazy break on the 7th bar, half a beat late when everything falls to pieces, dropping into 5/8 time, unleashing the demon modular synth sound from hell, totally unpredictable stuff, but it's all horses for courses I s'pose

[serox]

yeh ofte hera ppl trying to be smart n droping or changing things not on a 4

i find it annoying when playin a record n they try to change things half way...


got a really nice new german record, but it gets slightly faster thru the record making it nearly impossible to leave it mixing for longer than 8 bars or somthing

[crime]

yeh ofte hera ppl trying to be smart n droping or changing things not on a 4

i find it annoying when playin a record n they try to change things half way...

surely once you heard the record a few times, you know where the change is, and work around it... This is what gets me about a lot of people who play "Loop techno" and just seamlessly mix one record into the next, switching the (Supposed) B-Line (Let's be honest here, it's not a real B-line, it's an offbeat bass stab, nothing more) with the bass e.q, with each record sounding like minor variation on the last.... This is what completely switched me off a lot of this stuff.. sorry, rant over, but this is my personal angle on it, I completely respect peoples right to their own taste, but I do feel that it has turned a lot of people off of techno, after only hearing this kind of stuff, not liking it because they thought all techno sounded like this... ;)