Quote Originally Posted by Sunil
Quote Originally Posted by Patrick
Actually, just had a re-read and this thread is funny as !
Unless my eyes are deceiving me, it looks like we've got some DJs who play out regularly almost every weekend (sometimes to crowds of thousands), some people who run their own labels and also some people with long years and a vast wealth of experience in the scene (in distribution etc.), and some very talented, long-standing producers being told how and what mixing is, being told what music is or what loops are by some of the bedroom boys.

The world is flipped on it's head today.
hmmm, you're being more than a little condescending here man. People are entitled to their opinion, it's up to the next guy to agree or disagree if he wants to, not to question the validity or importance of the 'bedroom boys' opinion.
No, I'm not at all.
Sunil, man, I think you're being a little loose in your interpretation of my post. I'm not questioning the 'validity or importance' of the bedroom boys (but obviously feel free to point out where in my post I said that, cos I can't see it ;) ). Still looks to me like a fair assessment of what has actually occurred in this thread. But I suppose I was more questioning whether the people they are telling need to be told. That's all. I'm sure damn near everyone started out as bedroom boys, so it's an incredibly important, and indeed essential, resource/entry point/development path or whatever.

That said, I will happily admit that I do get arsed off reading post after post after post (and not just on this forum , but on most techno related forums that I visit) by DJs who have just recently got into techno who still have a very undeveloped, narrow view of what the genre is or can be, but are still happy to spout off from their postion of ignorance what their version of "the rules" is. The "what is techno" argument, as we both know, has been running for years and years and I don't think any two people have every entirely agreed on one definition. But one word that will come up time and time again is innovation. As you well know, the whole thing started because a couple of kids in Belleville ignored the rules and did what they wanted and not what they were 'supposed' to. So there's no way, this far down the line, I'm going to accept that the music "should be" or "has to be" like this or that, or that it has to fit into any structure or conform to any one persons idea of what it is.

The point I probably should have developed more fully if I could have been arsed to type a full post last night is, that, yes, a part of techno probably is what some of the people are describing it as, but what they are describing is only a tiny part of the whole. But the way it continually gets expressed as if that small part is all of it is what gets on my nerves.

See, when I started getting into this music I was really keen to hear loads of the genre and to learn more from people who had been into it longer. Still am. I certainly wouldn't have been cocky enough to go on forums (if we'd had them back in the day on our steam powered computers) and start telling established artists or DJs what's what. Obviously, if people don't question and challenge the established order there won't be any change or development of the music and the scene will stagnate (and reading this and many other threads, there is a fair argument to say it already has). But I still do find it weird, and just a touch ironic, when many of the challenges I see are coming in the form of a call to conformity, uniformity and general blandness and some of these old badgers are the ones saying that things need to be broken up a bit and fu.cked around with.

You will notice that I am very carefully sticking to generalisations (nor am I only referring to points made in this thread, but there have been a few similiar ones recently on BA and a few other forums (InOut springs to mind etc.))and deliberately not picking up on any specific individuals points. I think that would be unfair and I would then be doing what you are accusing me of i.e. condascending to people. Attacking somebody for being new and not knowing a lot is shit.

The fact that people are new to a scene isn't a bad thing. The fact that people have strong opinions isn't a bad thing. The fact that people have a passion for the music isn't a bad thing. But the fact that they aren't prepared to open their minds and their ears and take a little bit of advice and a few tips and pointers from others definitely is a very bad thing.

And having read many of your posts on here and getting a flavour of your tastes and opinions from them, I really don't reckon I'm saying a lot there that you would disagree with. Unless of course you really are being hormonal and are looking for a fight, in which case I'll see you behind the (cyber)bike sheds. ;) :lol: