Should music be given away free?

[BloodStar]

i think it's author's thing if he wants to give tracks for free or not.

[rhythmtech]

it's not a tricky one at all in my mind.

no- you shouldn't give it away for free , people should enjoy paying for it , they should think it's totally worth it and get a buzz from paying for their favourite tracks

if all free music stopped overnight and everyone had to pay do you think there would be rioting in the streets?

no- i don't

they would just bloody pay and thats what i wish would happen.

but yet you've given them away for free too?

i know where you're coming from - we'd all love to be able to get paid for every track but thats not always the case. and sometimes, for whatever reason, tracks get put up for free download.

[acidsaturation]

no- you shouldn't give it away for free , people should enjoy paying for it , they should think it's totally worth it and get a buzz from paying for their favourite tracks

Personally I wish that we didn't have to pay or charge for things so much.

I know this brings all kinds of politics into the debate, but actually I don't get a buzz from paying for my favourite tracks. I don't really get a buzz for paying for most things.

I get a buzz from earning something, but this is so entrenched in the idea that money is the whole be all and end all...

I don't think its fair for someone whose set up or occupation is such that they charge for a product to say that someone else should not give that product (providing it is theirs to give of course) away for free, whether that product is music, food, whatever.

As an example, would you say that people should not write free VSTis and other software for this same reason? What about free zines and music mags?

[TechMouse]

no- you shouldn't give it away for free

Are you really saying that if I make some music and I want to give it away for free, I shouldn't?

[Aratron]

that's quite a capitalist sound bite. f

not at all. i am not a capitalist.
this is the way of things. everything must have balance.
For example, i used to read Tarot Cards. I always did it for free.
Anyway one day i learnt off some folk, that it must always cost somebody, even if it was the least somebody could afford. That gave the reading a kind of balance. There must be payment for the effort and labour of love that goes into anything.
Everything must cost.
If i pick an apple from atree, i expend enrgy in doing so.

point and click and save your music in a second for free?

Ain't ever, ever gonna work, unless you are a fool. In which case go for it!!

[Aratron]

no- you shouldn't give it away for free , people should enjoy paying for it , they should think it's totally worth it and get a buzz from paying for their favourite tracks

exactly the art of paying for something for some people, is more important than the product itself.
as is stealing for other people.

[rhythmtech]

so what about the mixes that you do and post up for free download - are they exempt?

[Aratron]

so what about the mixes that you do and post up for free download - are they exempt?

thats an interesting point. however i am not the original artist and i don't pretend to be.
It's a bit like me buying some apples, making an apple pie and then giving everyone some free samples of it, at least i bought the apples (or grew them) myself.
Or in your argument, lots of people investing in apple orchards, and then at harvest time giving all their apples away. And then complaining they are skint. Go figure?
same with music esp, techno the whole point of it, is that it is going to be mixed. So if 100 artists all mix your tunes in their mix, thats an advertisement in itself, and aesthetically pleasing no doubt aswell.

[acidsaturation]

not at all. i am not a capitalist.
this is the way of things. everything must have balance.

It's capitalist if the value has to be monetary. That's not using the word capitalist in any negative way however, just that money being the main object is a theme of capitalism.

I think most of us are capitalists to some extent - it's the world we live in and its very hard to not have to go down that route when you need to get what you need.

But I do agree, that many things do need to have some reciprocity to have value.

But I also think that reciprocity does not need to be linear - i.e. the "payment" may not need to go back the the person providing the goods/service.

[davethedrummer]

so what about the mixes that you do and post up for free download - are they exempt?

come one baz leave it out mate. there has always been a certain amount of free promotion for all music over the history of pop/rock/dance you know that.
you do it yourself mate ,
me too

I see your statement as a splitting of hairs nothing less.

because promotion is promotion, it should be used to inform people of whats going on , whats coming up and whats doing it at the moment.
so no i don't have a problem with dj mixes , they get me work and i need work same as everyone.
they are a necessity for a professional musician, but i do have a problem with people using them to cut out the tracks they like and re-edit them into playable versions which i have seen done.


thing is there is just no way to stop peopl stealing or copying
no magical answer . no special format etc etc
so we are talking about morals really right? hypothetically .

and morally people should pay for their music , end of story.

if you want to give it away fine...thats your choice of course

but i believe you undermine everyone else's hard work by doing so...
and where's it going to stop?
we aren't all as rich as radiohead you know.
if some of us didn't get stuck in and treat our music making as a job 24/7 no matter how big or small or rich or poor we are, there would be no dance music scene to speak of and thats the bottom line.

[davethedrummer]

one more thing
i rarely actually put my mixes up myself
i think i have put up about 10 in total over 10 years or so.
it's actually everyone else that does it for me
and generally i don't even know they exist until someone from this site tells me about it.

[rhythmtech]

thats an interesting point. however i am not the original artist and i don't pretend to be.
It's a bit like me buying some apples, making an apple pie and then giving everyone some free samples of it, at least i bought the apples (or grew them) myself.
Or in your argument, lots of people investing in apple orchards, and then at harvest time giving all their apples away. And then complaining they are skint. Go figure?
same with music esp, techno the whole point of it, is that it is going to be mixed. So if 100 artists all mix your tunes in their mix, thats an advertisement in itself, and aesthetically pleasing no doubt aswell.

so what about people that A. cant get a track signed or B. arent interested in getting a track signed. should they not have the option of doing whatever they want with something that they created and own the copyright on?

c'mon.. since when does anyone have the right to tell others how to run their business.. or am i suddenly on www.freemasonery.fcukoff ???

[rhythmtech]

come one baz leave it out mate. there has always been a certain amount of free promotion for all music over the history of pop/rock/dance you know that.
you do it yourself mate ,
me too

I see your statement as a splitting of hairs nothing less.

because promotion is promotion, it should be used to inform people of whats going on , whats coming up and whats doing it at the moment.
so no i don't have a problem with dj mixes , they get me work and i need work same as everyone.
they are a necessity for a professional musician, but i do have a problem with people using them to cut out the tracks they like and re-edit them into playable versions which i have seen done.


thing is there is just no way to stop peopl stealing or copying
no magical answer . no special format etc etc
so we are talking about morals really right? hypothetically .

and morally people should pay for their music , end of story.

if you want to give it away fine...thats your choice of course

but i believe you undermine everyone else's hard work by doing so...
and where's it going to stop?
we aren't all as rich as radiohead you know.
if some of us didn't get stuck in and treat our music making as a job 24/7 no matter how big or small or rich or poor we are, there would be no dance music scene to speak of and thats the bottom line.

not havin a go at all m8.. just trying to gauge where you're coming from.

my thinking is that if someone owns the copyright then they're entitled to do what they like really.

[Aratron]

one more thing
i rarely actually put my mixes up myself
i think i have put up about 10 in total over 10 years or so.
it's actually everyone else that does it for me
and generally i don't even know they exist until someone from this site tells me about it.

tbh i think too many of your mixes are about.

almost i think not another dtd mix in Belarus or whereva.

[Aratron]

not havin a go at all m8.. just trying to gauge where you're coming from.

my thinking is that if someone owns the copyright then they're entitled to do what they like really.

if you think that you should give music away for free. then do so.
i'll still probably buy some good acid techno vinyl, and ignore the dross on mp3.

[rhythmtech]

i agree ^^

i'd rather see the odd promotional mix coming from the artist themselves rather than the glut of good (and not so good) live ones available.

[Aratron]

i agree ^^

i'd rather see the odd promotional mix coming from the artist themselves rather than the glut of good (and not so good) live ones available.

hmm ty!!

i find it quite irritating looking in the acid techno section and there's whoevers latest mix there for free. esp dave the drummer.
was a time i was like wow dtd omg. and it now it's like i want to hang myself if i see another of his ****ing mixes. No offence Mr Cullen, i'm sure it pisses you off too.
Sure go on there websites download the mixes they want you to listen too for sure.
Wtf do i know. i hardly get out the house much these days.

[Aratron]

It's capitalist if the value has to be monetary. That's not using the word capitalist in any negative way however, just that money being the main object is a theme of capitalism.

I think most of us are capitalists to some extent - it's the world we live in and its very hard to not have to go down that route when you need to get what you need.

But I do agree, that many things do need to have some reciprocity to have value.

But I also think that reciprocity does not need to be linear - i.e. the "payment" may not need to go back the the person providing the goods/service.

well i didnt say anywhere the payment needed to be in money.
It's just generally accepted in 2008 that bio-survival tickets equate to money, instead of bartering.
But sure bartering can be fun if someone has something interesting to barter that you don't have. Thats why swapping can be fun.

[module]

ya know, it wasnt until the recording revolution that music was a 'product'

theres earning a few £££ to get by & then theres carl cox & morales & greedy agencies & business class flights & blah blah blah..

theres being paid, then theres makin huge wedges.. stupid riders & ott bookin fees..

****in agencys are the worst.. 10% to tell you if a dj is doing anything that night.. ffs, get up off your arses & do summat.. maybe the greed of the coin has pushed the fees past breakin point & wre pissed off paying thru the nose to see big acts that arent all that, or buy ANOTHER 12 thats the same old shit as the last 6 or 7...


rant over :)

[davethedrummer]

so what about people that A. cant get a track signed or B. arent interested in getting a track signed. should they not have the option of doing whatever they want with something that they created and own the copyright on?

c'mon.. since when does anyone have the right to tell others how to run their business.. or am i suddenly on www.freemasonery.fcukoff ???

i didn't say that barry , i'm not telling anyone how to do anything i'm just voicing my opinion.
you can do what you want with your music
it just pays to look at the bigger picture from time to time
and ask yourself if what you are doing is actually helpful to the scene or not.

maybe go here for a better explanation:

www.dontgetyourknickersinatwist.org