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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechMouse View Post
    If people want to try and make a living out of it them great - just remember that the world doesn't owe you a living and if your stuff doesn't sell then that's nobody's fault.
    I totally agree with this... I find it a bit pointless when people lash out about failing to sell their records and start harping on about the evil of piracy and blaming the internet for all their troubles. It's the nature of the world at the moment that people expect to get music for free, like it or not - you can either work with it and try and find a way to package what you're selling that makes people actually want to part with their cash - or stop whingeing and go flip burgers to pay your rent. The playing field has changed - unlucky for some but that's evolution for ya.

    I think the music industry (the larger picture, not techno so much) has set itself up for a much-deserved fall. It's only relatively recently that music changed from something that people made because they loved it and could occasionally scrape a living from to massive style-over-content marketing hype bollocks. Now that the internet and disposable technology have exploded and popped the bubble, given the insanely hyperinflated prices of mainstream music, it's not surprising that Joe Public has voted with his feet and chosen to pay nothing at all. Of a new £15 CD in Virgin or whatever how much were the production costs? How much did the artist get? Why on earth is a skint teenager going to pay the other £14 if they can download it for nowt? The RIAA and whoever can throw as much of a paddy as they like, they ate for free for a long time but the world's moved on and their niche has closed. If they're creative they'll find new ways to sell us things that we can't get for free, and actually make us want to open our wallets again - try developing with the times instead of doing things like dragging filesharers through the courts, trying to wind back the clock.

    Ever since people came down from the trees they've been making music, simply because they want to. Those that enjoy making it will continue to make it, regardless of sales. For my part I will continue to spend every spare quid I can scrape together on vinyl, because I'm a dinosaur and I love the stupid things. Unfortunately though young people will continue to get younger and grow up in a more and more different world, there's no fighting that... it's adapt or die I'm afraid
    Oh wow - myspace :coffee: http://www.myspace.com/robsoliton

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethedrummer View Post
    i didn't say that barry , i'm not telling anyone how to do anything i'm just voicing my opinion.
    you can do what you want with your music
    it just pays to look at the bigger picture from time to time
    and ask yourself if what you are doing is actually helpful to the scene or not.

    maybe go here for a better explanation:

    www.dontgetyourknickersinatwist.org
    you should go back up there and see what qoute i was answering wasnt yours h.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by module View Post
    ya know, it wasnt until the recording revolution that music was a 'product'

    theres earning a few £££ to get by & then theres carl cox & morales & greedy agencies & business class flights & blah blah blah..

    theres being paid, then theres makin huge wedges.. stupid riders & ott bookin fees..

    ****in agencys are the worst.. 10% to tell you if a dj is doing anything that night.. ffs, get up off your arses & do summat.. maybe the greed of the coin has pushed the fees past breakin point & wre pissed off paying thru the nose to see big acts that arent all that, or buy ANOTHER 12 thats the same old shit as the last 6 or 7...


    rant over :)
    you're telling me that mozart ( the genius child , as marketed and toured extensively all over europe by his father ) wasn't a product when he was alive?

    anyway book me i'm cheap !
    love your mum

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhythmtech View Post
    you should go back up there and see what qoute i was answering wasnt yours h.

    oh right

    sorry , ah **** it it's a sunny day what the hell am i doing here anyway?
    love your mum

  5. #45
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    Basically the looming death of the recording industry means (fingers crossed) the death of the likes of the Spice Girls and MC Hammer. It doesn't mean the end of techno, it doesn't mean the end of music born out creativity and passion. No shifting market will kill that...
    Oh wow - myspace :coffee: http://www.myspace.com/robsoliton

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aratron View Post
    tbh i think too many of your mixes are about.

    almost i think not another dtd mix in Belarus or whereva.
    not my fault

    I think theres too many of my mixes about too.
    love your mum

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhythmtech View Post
    you should go back up there and see what qoute i was answering wasnt yours h.
    too late now, your in his bad books

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethedrummer View Post

    and morally people should pay for their music , end of story.

    if you want to give it away fine...thats your choice of course

    but i believe you undermine everyone else's hard work by doing so...
    and where's it going to stop?
    See, I've heard this way too much. And, thankfully, just as so many other artists have felt in the past when faced with such silliness from the self-interested, if it's actually true then I'm happy to have been a part of it. :) Free music doesn't undermine anything you do, unless it is just as good, or better, than what you are doing.

    we aren't all as rich as radiohead you know.
    if some of us didn't get stuck in and treat our music making as a job 24/7 no matter how big or small or rich or poor we are, there would be no dance music scene to speak of and thats the bottom line.
    Meanwhile, in my own back yard, there's music being made all the time, with no shortage of parties or venues playing it, where the artists give the music away for free over the net, on CD, etc. The scene won't disappear. Only you will if you choose to.
    A person belonging to one or more Order is just as likely to carry a flag of the counter-establishment as the flag of the establishment, just as long as it is a flag. --P.D.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by tocsin View Post
    See, I've heard this way too much. And, thankfully, just as so many other artists have felt in the past when faced with such silliness from the self-interested, if it's actually true then I'm happy to have been a part of it. :) Free music doesn't undermine anything you do, unless it is just as good, or better, than what you are doing.



    Meanwhile, in my own back yard, there's music being made all the time, with no shortage of parties or venues playing it, where the artists give the music away for free over the net, on CD, etc. The scene won't disappear. Only you will if you choose to.
    maybe there is free music, but is it on par with the worst of wot Henry has done? no.
    Dave The Drummer is (sorry about this dude) a modern day Mozart. Not some coked up knobhead who knows how to work Fruity Loops.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aratron View Post
    maybe there is free music, but is it on par with the worst of wot Henry has done? no.
    now you're just being silly. ok, henry's stuff is pretty special at times but just because its a commercial release doesnt mean its better than a free release.

    go to the sub division media website and there's free music available.. all top-notch.

    inigo kennedy runs a free net label thats immense.

    i could go on all day.

  11. #51
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    It doesn't matter anyways. The aspect of music being "free" is irrelevant. Free music leaves money in the pocket to still be spent on music that is not, if someone was ever part of that market. It is only when something is no longer that interesting that one will not bother spending money on it, assuming they have the money to spend. Lashing out at piracy was silly enough in my opinion, but made buckets' loads more sense than blaming artists who give music away for free for the failures of other musicians. And, like I said, when people feel the need to hang that type of lame trip on me, I just smile and say "you're welcome." :)
    A person belonging to one or more Order is just as likely to carry a flag of the counter-establishment as the flag of the establishment, just as long as it is a flag. --P.D.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhythmtech View Post
    now you're just being silly. ok, henry's stuff is pretty special at times but just because its a commercial release doesnt mean its better than a free release.

    go to the sub division media website and there's free music available.. all top-notch.

    inigo kennedy runs a free net label thats immense.

    i could go on all day.
    now who's deluded?
    that what is really destroying the industry too few people of Henry, Guy, Immersion's calibre. And two many big name Techno artists who nobody gives a **** about, the reason they have to give their music away is cos no ****er will be buy it in the first place. don't fool yourself.
    law of supply and demand. basic economics. people will pay for a scarce resource i.e a decent SUF (if properly marketed).
    will people pay for average dross thats so diluted you can get it for free? no.
    don't sell yourself short mate.
    your music Baz is good and i would and have paid for it on vinyl. If i was some twat playing it from my pc i would probably pay for some lame mp3 aswell (even of yours, yeah you are that good!)
    Last edited by Aratron; 12-05-2008 at 10:15 PM.

  13. #53
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    no-one is saying that the quality of free music is bad
    it isn't of course not
    it just makes it difficult to sell anything when there is so much for free.
    meaning that you have to dj or play live to earn a living now
    which is hard on the body and not that well paid either
    and it's extremely anti social hours when you have a family at home.

    yes ok get a day job you say
    maybe maybe not.

    but the point is that if i did get a day job that would be the end of it for me
    i'm not speaking for anyone else , but i couldn't do both ( well not properly )
    and to be honest i love music and i don't want to give it up.
    love your mum

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aratron View Post
    Dave The Drummer is (sorry about this dude) a modern day Mozart.
    haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahaha, quote of the decade!!

    there is free music that is worse, just as good and better than pay for music.

    i agree with what other people say, music should cost what the people who make charge for it.

    also i always like to point out in these threads, many high profile techno producers use illegal software and sample copyright material.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethedrummer View Post
    no-one is saying that the quality of free music is bad
    it isn't of course not
    it just makes it difficult to sell anything when there is so much for free.
    meaning that you have to dj or play live to earn a living now
    which is hard on the body and not that well paid either
    and it's extremely anti social hours when you have a family at home.

    yes ok get a day job you say
    maybe maybe not.

    but the point is that if i did get a day job that would be the end of it for me
    i'm not speaking for anyone else , but i couldn't do both ( well not properly )
    and to be honest i love music and i don't want to give it up.
    what would you do for a proper job?
    Jesus maybe me and a few other hundred acid techno heads could set up a monthly standing order. I ****ing hate giving money to charity, cos it all goes in Swiss Bank Accounts. Why not be the patron of some fantastic artist like some relatively wealthy Roman citizen. Five pounds each a month. Should pay the mortgage. You get on with selling some quality techno.

  16. #56
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    i've always wanted my very own ice cream van
    love your mum

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethedrummer View Post
    i've always wanted my very own ice cream van
    here little girly, lick my wet sweety.

  18. #58
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    if some of us didn't get stuck in and treat our music making as a job 24/7 no matter how big or small or rich or poor we are, there would be no dance music scene to speak of and thats the bottom line.
    who said that? what a load of bull! you think music only started because people made money from it or some one gave them food from a hunt? music is human expression, it dies when we die. that is the bottom line.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by detfella View Post
    who said that? what a load of bull! you think music only started because people made money from it or some one gave them food from a hunt? music is human expression, it dies when we die. that is the bottom line.
    no, thats not what i'm saying at all.
    love your mum

  20. #60
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    Nice topic

    Should it be given away? Not without the artists permission or knowledge, just not right otherwise.

    Does it do any harm? Debatable.
    Yes, if talented people decide that they can no longer make music full time and give up as a result of having their meagre revenues diluted away into nothing, then the scene and music in general is worse off. Artists used to get by on the patronage of wealthy bods who had money and respect for art. Nowadays everyone has money but seemingly little respect.

    But, facing stark realities... until it gets easier to buy then steal, I can't see it changing.

    I don't understand pricing either. A vinyl 4 track EP sells for 6 quid. It typically requires an artist, a label, a distributor, a mastering engineer, a production house, printing, delivery, shipping and storage

    A 4 track WAV EP costs more than the vinyl version. Why? How is that justified?
    A 4 track 320k mp3 EP costs about the same as a vinyl. Something seems to be wrong here....

    allofmp3 was something like the 3rd most popular site in the UK before it shut down and reopened as another identical clone site. People were buying music. People were paying lots of cash to buy music. It was easier than stealing and nobody minded about the price.

    I think music should cost money. It costs money to make it, and if it has value a price isn't unreasonable.

    But I think the pricing models are all wrong, and need to be in line with what people are prepared to pay.

    So long as its quicker, cheaper, easier and relatively risk free the majority of people are going to keep on stealing. Sites like allofmp3 actually brought people stealing music back into the fold. Formed soulseekers were seemingly happy to shell out a $3-5 dollars for an album, fast download, no waiting with all album art etc included. Shame the sites involved trousered all the money and didn't bother sharing the cash with the people who made the product in the first place.

    Vinyl should cost money. Its a physical product and has a ton of costs attached. But I can't understand why MP3s cost as much as they do.

    Especially stupid things like mp3s costing a pound in the UK that cost a dollar in the US. No excuse for crap like that.
    Last edited by Jay Pace; 12-05-2008 at 11:03 PM.

 

 
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