Should music be given away free?

[davethedrummer]

me too
i've had enough of this conversation it'll go on for ever
i have my opinion and i'm sticking to it
i enjoy what i do and thats that , i make music, it's my job and i consider myself lucky to do a job that i get so much enjoyment from
it does get me down sometimes and when things get cancelled or i get ripped off or whatever.
and i can get pretty cynical about the money in times like that because i work hard at what i do.

but at the end of the day i love it , the music that is
i could do without the late nights the long drives and all that stuff
but i do get to sit in the studio and write music as a result so it's all good really

[RDR]

this has some resonance here.

From Digital Music News

Resnikoff's Parting Shot: Where's My Long Tail Playbook?

Amidst the dizzying chaos that is the music industry today, a fairytale exists. Somewhere, over the rainbow, a place exists for Long Tail artists everywhere to thrive financially, creatively, and with total independence.

But the success ratios for developing artists will continue to remain slim, at least over the short- and mid-term horizons. And breakout successes, however rare, will be difficult to capture and duplicate. In short, there is no Long Tail playbook for success, and there may never be one.

Sure, independent and unsigned artists now have unprecedented mechanisms for connecting and cultivating niche audiences. And loyal fans are a powerful bunch, especially when they start opening their wallets, attending shows, and spreading the word.

And, a constellation of easy-to-use, inexpensive services now exist. TuneCore can put your song onto iTunes overnight. And iLike can spread your profile across multiple networks just as quickly. CD Baby can sell your CD, and Zazzle can help you merchandise. Step the game up a little, and effective list management and smart targeting come into play. And P2P applications can quickly lubricate the word-of-mouth process.

But those steps set the stage for a possible breakout, they don't create one. And even if a band starts resonating with a targeted audience, cultivating a loyal following takes repetition, continued word-of-mouth, and lots of time. Just like before.

And, let's face it, most lack the creative capital to truly rally a meaningful following. Of course, every artist makes the best music in the world, just like every entrepreneur has the most revolutionary business model imaginable. And, totally unrealistic self-assessments are often required to overcome the endless naysaying that the world offers.

But in reality, very few have the winning musical charisma and creativity required to attract serious, devoted groups of fans. And, for that matter, most startups end up failing. Only a tiny sliver of new artists actually start a flame, and even fewer can keep it burning over time.

There are just too many bands, too many options for potential fans, and way too many distractions in the current, fragmented media landscape. And, a large percentage of new music is uninteresting, unoriginal, or uninspiring.

Then again, everyone has a different definition of success. And some artists are happy to be scraping by. Selling a few iTunes downloads here, the odd CD Baby disc there, a t-shirt every Thursday, a marginally-lucrative gig on Friday. And why not? Suddenly, this existence is possible.

But what about a higher level of musical existence? Truly breaking out, and enjoying both financial and critical success? Actually, breakouts are happening, but the path towards success for Long Tail artists remains chaotic, and mostly hit-or-miss. And that means that artists must remain scrappy, unbreakable, and committed to scoring the elusive big break - just like before.

Take the case study of Saul Williams. The hard-to-classify urban poet actually scored a nice purse on his recent album, but few saw it coming. And the story was so complicated and unpredictable that it remains almost impossible to duplicate.

Williams, with the assistance of Trent Reznor, started offering his album using the emerging name-your-price sales model. And after a few months, the results were mildly successful. Williams already had some name recognition, and perhaps a niche audience, though most were paying nothing for the album. And probably moving on to something else after that.

Then, something funny happened. An older track, "List of Demands," was featured within an inspirational Nike advertisement. The online experiment quickly careened past revenues of $300,000, and Williams embarked on a string of sold-out club dates. In his words, the experiment had a "marvelous result," thanks to a mix of unexpected factors.

In some ways, a fairytale ending. But a formula? Do enough homework, and you can figure out how to create a name-your-price proposition online. But a Nike ad? Artists like Junkie XL have done it, and even Dockers dusted off the vinyl on Marlena Shaw's "California Soul," just one of several reuses.

But Williams had other advantages, including a leading role in the 1998 film, Slam, a major label stint, and several high-profile touring opportunities. Perhaps not the most widely-recognized of artists, but Williams is hardly struggling at the extremes of the tail.

And those that are face a vexing, unpredictable and improbable path towards success. In contrast, head-of-the-tail artists like Radiohead and Trent Reznor are figuring and defining best practices, and broadcasting the best ways to excite existing crowds and profit in the process.

But for those toiling in obscurity, a playbook remains illusory - and success a difficult and rare result. That said, few can argue against some key ingredients, including proper distribution and promotion, a dogged determination to succeed, and truly amazing content. Some things never change, and probably never will.

Paul Resnikoff, Publisher.

[clubsynthetic]

Should music be given away free?

What's your thoughts on this?

More and more labels seem to be giving away free tracks, or just going completely free.

I'm all in favour of promotion which can involve free things or giveaways but there is a limit on this.

Just want to see what the general feeling is on here.

In this day and age people do have the right to ask for pay for there music, but, shouldn't - for there best interests.. (not busting a blood vessle)

One's music will ALWAYS be able to be pirated so thats a lost battle. I think that an artists money is the perfomance they can give on the day (either live or DJing). If there music is good, it speaks for itself, thats the way techno works anyway doesn't it? Its harder to copy someone when they have thier live set or almighty skills on whatever so my conclusion is..

..the money's in the performance. The music is the advertisment (and it is also the music)

[MorePunkThanFunk]

i think this is an argument that is going to go round and round as everyone has such vastly different opinions on this. its good to get everyones opinion on this though, been interesting.

[Si the Sigh]

God bless and goodnight!

Quick pint anyone?

[Smear]

Another question worth asking, i dunno if this happens at parties that are a lot bigger, but it obviously doesn't at smaller parties.....if you play a record in a club, should the DJ pay royalties to the artist, just like a band who does a cover would, or a pub with a jukebox?

[p_brane]

very interesting reading all the comments on this topic

IMO music is never free. It costs for software, hardware and it costs for the time put into it most of all.

however, i think cost free music at a consumer level can be a really good thing. There are a few labels out there putting great music out at no cost to the consumer and thats sweet, you will usually find that many artists on these labels are also signed to various other labels, be it digital or vinyl that charge.Personally i see it as a gift from the producers to the scene, because like i said it didnt cost nothing.

i can see where the full time producer/DJ's are coming from but in all honesty i dont get it.

the scene has changed a lot since i got into it. Its now more accessible than ever and surely thats a good thing, IMO this in part is due to the accessibility of forums like this that like minded people can get together and promote their 'sound' to the scene,if its free then count it as a gift, it aint gonna make people buy less records from the established artists. there is a progression in the air , you just got to embrace it, gone are the days of the super star DJ, the elite few who can afford equipment, software, studio costs. its as it should be; an open ended environment in which people of all financial situations can express themselves, and with a bit of hard work get good enough to one day make a bit of money from it, but the scene dont owe you a living, you have to earn that.

just my tuppence worth:)

[TechMouse]

Another question worth asking, i dunno if this happens at parties that are a lot bigger, but it obviously doesn't at smaller parties.....if you play a record in a club, should the DJ pay royalties to the artist, just like a band who does a cover would, or a pub with a jukebox?

Technically you should submit tracklists to the venue, who should then submit them to PRS. Any producers who are PRS registered will receive a percentage of the money in the PRS pot.

As it stands, the big name pop acts get the majority of the money because of radio plays and big club plays, but if all the little guys registered and submitted tracklists we'd claw some of it back.

It's especially worth it if you ever get stuff played on Radio (e.g. I had a track played on Annie Nightingale's show a couple of years back, and if I had been PRS registered it might have meant a little bit of cash - maybe enough for a pint or something).

[RDR]

Technically you should submit tracklists to the venue, who should then submit them to PRS. Any producers who are PRS registered will receive a percentage of the money in the PRS pot.

As it stands, the big name pop acts get the majority of the money because of radio plays and big club plays, but if all the little guys registered and submitted tracklists we'd claw some of it back.

It's especially worth it if you ever get stuff played on Radio (e.g. I had a track played on Annie Nightingale's show a couple of years back, and if I had been PRS registered it might have meant a little bit of cash - maybe enough for a pint or something).

the PRS doesnt require tracklists from clubs, it pointless, they just pay a blanket fee which they then apportion out on a average basis according to whatever formula they are currently using.

also did you have a track played on radio?

[TechMouse]

the PRS doesnt require tracklists from clubs, it pointless, they just pay a blanket fee which they then apportion out on a average basis according to whatever formula they are currently using.

AFAIK, the payout is based on a weighting assigned by PRS based on the number of public plays. This includes in clubs. Clubs should submit tracklists. It may seem pointless in individual instances, but if everyone did it it would quickly become more meaningful.

also did you have a track played on radio?

Yes. Years back I did a remix for someone and they played it in a mix on Annie Nightingale's show on Radio 1.

It's a weird thing, hearing your stuff coming out of a radio.

[RDR]

AFAIK, the payout is based on a weighting assigned by PRS based on the number of public plays. This includes in clubs. Clubs should submit tracklists. It may seem pointless in individual instances, but if everyone did it it would quickly become more meaningful.


Yes. Years back I did a remix for someone and they played it in a mix on Annie Nightingale's show on Radio 1.

It's a weird thing, hearing your stuff coming out of a radio.

+1 on the track listing. Radio does it because most of the playlists are computerised with the bigger stations and also because it benefits their listeners to know which tracks they are listening to.

The chances of it happening are pretty low unless there is a sea change in the way clubs manage themselves. The very nature of club management is a bit more than haphazard at best. I could see it being rejected instantly unless there was a system that really takes the effort invloved in the process away from club manager/promoter/dj

Can you imagine them all trying to piece track lists together after the night finishes??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

The tune recognition systems that are currently in play might possibly work but it needs the following to be in place:

:: Each tune played to be registered on the database that the system calls on.
:: People to register those tunes
:: Enough money to make it worthwhile

In theory copyright protects people but it is also there to provide a signpost as to who should be paid for the exploitation of that copyright, through collection societies and the publishers of the respective artists.

So who might pay for such as system? The majors? The indies? the collection societies? How does the money get apportioned?

I can seriously see this being of benefit to little artists and those who play live. I can also see it being an excuse for club owners to pay their DJs less as the PRS/MCPS would certainly use this as an excuse to bump up the prices they charge clubs for licenses.

just my 2p

OH AND...

Well done for having a track played on radio! Can i hear it?

[clubsynthetic]

I totally agree with the pirated software whilst making money on the music from it/them is wrong and cheeky.

As said before if its your choon do what you want with it.

We should try and ban MP3's and the internet.

[Athar]

"Should music be given away free?"

Nowdays there is nothing givin for free on the western world,

Music its artist intellectual property,
its not just a food or blankets we sending and givin for free in the central africa
music should be protected and born some money for survive artists and scene
its logical in my opinion

[crime]

I spent up until a year ago, 5 years living totally from music ( with a few odd jobs on the side here and there), and in the last year I got to the point where I was really sick of the music side of my life becoming like a chore. The stress caused by the lack of money was totally killing my inspiration, and when I look back, some music I made, although still quite underground, was sometimes being directed by commercial pressures, something I'm not entirely comfortable with.

That last point in particular, I felt, was really not a good one, I came to the conclusion that life would be much more stress free if I actually started working full time, and my music would be purely written from the heart, when I wanted to do it and not because I was gonna earn 500 euro for doing a "banging" e.p. which I didn't really want to do, but had to because it was the only way to pay the rent..

Since working reguarly, I make a lot less music, but what I do make, I'm much more happy with, and it's written to please me, not some label owner...

Because of the pinch in vinyl sales, vinyl labels are much less open to taking music which doesn't fit in with any one sound or genre, and it's also very easy to get typecast in the techno scene, i.e. you make some hard techno records and everybody thinks that's all you make or are interested in.. so when you do try and do something different, the people who like the hard stuff hate it because it's not hard techno, and people who might like it ignore it because they think "oh, he just makes hard techno"...

If you're not relying on money from music you ultimately have much more freedom to do what you want to do, and you are in a much better headstate when it comes to playing gigs.. I re-evaluated everything, and came to the conclusion that I needed to get back into it for the original reason why I made electronic music i.e. because of love for the music..

it's a sad fact that the music market has become saturated, but if you're gonna blame people giving their stuff away for free, why not blame the countless amount of people out there, that used to be bedroom djs who have stopped buying records to instead concentrate on their own productions and live sets...

But blaming others solves nothing, the important thing I think is to remember why you got into this in the first place, to have a career in it, or for the love of music..

I know a fair few so-called "big names" who have their fingers in other pies, such as sound design, studio management, sound engineering, audio visual work etc, and others who are in a similar boat to me, driving vans, diggers, working in shops, warehouses, offices etc, the few I do know that are successfull purely from music are constantly finding new ways to make money from different angles in music, you're kidding yourself if you think seriously in this day and age that you can live just from writing a few techno tunes, and spinning tunes in a few clubs now and then... the only people doing this are the "scene leaders", who have been there since the rave scene, and I suspect that these people have their fingers in many pies...

so I think giving away music for free has become a neccesity for some who wish to do something different.. I gave my album away for free last year, after months of slogging around the labels trying to sell it.. given the good feedback I got after giving it away for free, I don't think it was a bad album at all, the problem I had was that it didn't fit in with anyone's label agenda, and given the commercial pressures these days, most labels want sure fire hits...

in the late nineties, we used to say "everyone wants to be a DJ", nowdays that has morphed into "everybody wants to be a Producer/Live act/net label owner", like it or hate it, you have to live with it, I'm quite glad myself that it made me re-evaluate everything, as I'm enjoying it all much more, ok, my output has slowed somewhat, but I hope that the rise in quality makes up for that..

With so much 2nd rate crap out there, it's important to push the boundaries, and only release music that is really saying something, a luxury that can only be afforded if you are sticking rich, don't mind being really poor or have a full time job...

[RDR]

Because of the pinch in vinyl sales, vinyl labels are much less open to taking music which doesn't fit in with any one sound or genre

Is that not more to do with the retaillers, and by association the labels?

why not blame the countless amount of people out there, that used to be bedroom djs who have stopped buying records to instead concentrate on their own productions and live sets...

I thought the same for a while now. Teaching DJ in college isnt what it was. Hardly ANY DJs coming through, although funnily e-muff the rock kids are MUCH more interested in it than they were as its more exotic.

you're kidding yourself if you think seriously in this day and age that you can live just from writing a few techno tunes, and spinning tunes in a few clubs now and then... the only people doing this are the "scene leaders", who have been there since the rave scene, and I suspect that these people have their fingers in many pies...

Look at the hardcore scene, those boys have been running stuff there for years and years.

given the commercial pressures these days, most labels want sure fire hits...

Surely most COMMERCIAL labels? I can believe there are not people who dont want to put out stuff. Indies cant have lost their love either?

in the late nineties, we used to say "everyone wants to be a DJ", nowdays that has morphed into "everybody wants to be a Producer/Live act/net label owner", like it or hate it, you have to live with it,

Live with it! Love it! Ride it!

Cheers mark ;)

[crime]

Is that not more to do with the retaillers, and by association the labels?

well both, retailers buy from the distributors who buy from the labels, it's all the same thing.... and all the people involved in every side of that business have an effect and influence on what comes out...

Look at the hardcore scene, those boys have been running stuff there for years and years.

yes, but unless you're an absolute cainer, after 10 years + doing this stuff, maybe you don't want to be playing every weekend to a munted crowd... some do, I don't...

plus piano wailing happy hardcore is hardly at the cutting edge of electronic music, and is probably quite a safe bet compared to techno/electronica

Surely most COMMERCIAL labels? I can believe there are not people who dont want to put out stuff. Indies cant have lost their love either?

the books always have to balance, and it appears to me unless your music is either minimal, schranz or club techno, forget it...

labels, however underground have to pay the rent, simple economics.. anything more left field usually means that it's a small closed circle running a label just to release their own works.. fair enough, I wouldn't expect anyone to put their money where I wouldn't put my own regarding a vinyl release, especially in the current climate..

seriously, you listen to doomsday clock, no label would take that, and even now, trying to just get a 12" released from it, there is no interest.. maybe I'm misguided and it's actually a load of shit, but personally I think it's the best stuff I've ever done.. If all I get is people asking me to do another e.p. like my old Djax ones, I'd rather not bother, that sound just isn't me anymore, but unfortunately that's all anyone expects, I get a lot of praise for that stuff, but it's just too damn raw for me now and I feel that they were quite naive records...
I'm more interested in writing electronica now, more varied deeper stuff, and for reasons mentioned before, I'm having to start from scratch, but this is why I've decided not to care about any kind of popularity, and just to do it because I want to make that kind of music, no expectations other than pleasing myself...

[RDR]

well both, retailers buy from the distributors who buy from the labels, it's all the same thing.... and all the people involved in every side of that business have an effect and influence on what comes out...




yes, but unless you're an absolute cainer, after 10 years + doing this stuff, maybe you don't want to be playing every weekend to a munted crowd... some do, I don't...

plus piano wailing happy hardcore is hardly at the cutting edge of electronic music, and is probably quite a safe bet compared to techno/electronica



the books always have to balance, and it appears to me unless your music is either minimal, schranz or club techno, forget it...

labels, however underground have to pay the rent, simple economics.. anything more left field usually means that it's a small closed circle running a label just to release their own works.. fair enough, I wouldn't expect anyone to put their money where I wouldn't put my own regarding a vinyl release, especially in the current climate..

seriously, you listen to doomsday clock, no label would take that, and even now, trying to just get a 12" released from it, there is no interest.. maybe I'm misguided and it's actually a load of shit, but personally I think it's the best stuff I've ever done.. If all I get is people asking me to do another e.p. like my old Djax ones, I'd rather not bother, that sound just isn't me anymore, but unfortunately that's all anyone expects, I get a lot of praise for that stuff, but it's just too damn raw for me now and I feel that they were quite naive records...
I'm more interested in writing electronica now, more varied deeper stuff, and for reasons mentioned before, I'm having to start from scratch, but this is why I've decided not to care about any kind of popularity, and just to do it because I want to make that kind of music, no expectations other than pleasing myself...

Sure the distros have an axe to grind as well, and yup they sure are related!

The hardcore scene really did well IMO because of the events, they either got lucky, or realised which way the wind was blowing. I'd go for the latter myself. I was just pointing out their longevity than saying you'd want to do as de la does ;)

Digital labels have lower costs and can afford to experiment. For r3tox i wanted to release something on vinyl but its looking more distant and if i do, its gonna have to be commercial to keep my investors happy at the prospect of getting even a small portion of their financing back.

I really am supruised no-one would take doomsday clock, but on the other hand im also not suprised as well, times they are a changing and risk taking is way down the agenda for commercial projects.

Hear what you are saying about electronica, i enjoy programming synths myself and that is almost an end in itself for me. mad sounds and brain candy.

[Kokotorobot]

seriously, you listen to doomsday clock, no label would take that, and even now, trying to just get a 12" released from it, there is no interest.. maybe I'm misguided and it's actually a load of shit, but personally I think it's the best stuff I've ever done..

just listened to the album man, really enjoyed it! good job, and see, i'd probably never came across of it if it wasn't available as a free download. some tracks are definitely 12" material.

you should put these doomsday clock tracks up on last.fm as full free tracks, people will check it out and listen

[TechMouse]

I spent up until a year ago, 5 years living totally from music ( with a few odd jobs on the side here and there), and in the last year I got to the point where I was really sick of the music side of my life becoming like a chore. The stress caused by the lack of money was totally killing my inspiration, and when I look back, some music I made, although still quite underground, was sometimes being directed by commercial pressures, something I'm not entirely comfortable with.

That last point in particular, I felt, was really not a good one, I came to the conclusion that life would be much more stress free if I actually started working full time, and my music would be purely written from the heart, when I wanted to do it and not because I was gonna earn 500 euro for doing a "banging" e.p. which I didn't really want to do, but had to because it was the only way to pay the rent..

Since working reguarly, I make a lot less music, but what I do make, I'm much more happy with, and it's written to please me, not some label owner...

Amen to that Mark. That's pretty much exactly my POV.

Different strokes for different folks and all that, but if you rely on something for income then unless you are remarkably lucky there is an implicit compromise between what you want to do and what will put food on the table.

[qUE]

At the end of the day,

Money makes money

People who love music, make it because it interests them and spend a vast amount of time, effort and their own money with a wall of technology trying to find more and more insane ways to twist sound will probably be too precious about it and only make enough money to tie them over (or buy cIDER in my case) :D

I personally don't see a problem with giving recorded sets away for free, even if it has taken me an age to put the bits and pieces together (quite literally). Individual tracks should be released and sold on vinyl. Lossy compressed data is very poor quality and disposable, besides vinyl can be ripped to mp3/etc. by whoever bought it in the first place anyway.



qUE
mt.3rdevent.net
invertedlightsource.com

P.S. I hoped that made sense, cIDER I UP LANDLORD!