Start The War On Minimal

[nickoc]

wow all of ermmm 190 members...

you know what,

i really don't see the point of hating on a style of music. i used to do it myself, and i put it down to insecurity and boredom. if you believe your music is best, why waste your energy? put it into your own music and bring something positive to the table instead of stroking yourself under your computer desk.

maaaan some people must be spending a fooooooortune on tissues ;)

right on, mark. Nothing appeals to everyone, and one person's shit is another person's manure, so to speak.

however, deep down, most minimal-haters in the techno world are really just deeply insecure about the fragmentation and decline in their much-loved and much-treasured scene, and see minimal as a threat.

come on guys, it's just musical evolution in action! get over it! techno is living, growing, it's not a static thing, locked in the past. if it can't handle a bit of variation in style across the genre then i'm not... er... right.

anyhow, back to those old orbit mixes thud thud thud thud...

[djfilthmonger]

i think Dave the drummer hit the nail on the head for me anyway, there's not enough of variety in our city, too much minimal around here compared to a few years back ... there is a lot of variety in peoples taste here just been force fed minimal all the time is not good for the techno scene

[Mucky Beats]

To be honest when the "minimal" thing first hit i was one of the people who was'nt into it it seemed to infect online stores like juno so that every other tune was some sripped back blippy bloppy thing... but i was more i wasnt giving it the time of day to realize that it is just a form of the music i love so much that is techno. In time ive been lucky enough to go to some amazing events and get hold of some amazing music on the more minimal side... I'm not saying im now a minimal dj or anything like that ...im a techno dj and im proud to stand up and say that in any place or time till the day i die... and given the chance i will play the sickest dark twisted techno known to man... but the world is a vast place and people like all diffrent forms of techno and i really want to be able to do a set of music that works in whatever event i am in. To be fair ive maybe played only a few more minmal sided sets always slipping in likes of bas mooy and christian wunch over the top of likes of alex bau to give it a darker hard edge, but never the less there is a minimal feel to some of my sets.

Minimal has been around since the start of techno , I played with hood the other month and that guy has been banging out ruff "minimal" sets since i was in school haha. Richie Hawtin records ive got from the 90's are such simple minimal ... this is not a new music it is just now it is in the main stream and thus all the big techno artists now move to where they can make a living and play to the biggest crowds. And as that happens more good music is made and it grows. The down side is a lot of the big "harder" techno djs have now moved to making just minimal and so has knock on effect that not such high sales in our side of the market ... but lets be fair it gives us all shoes to fill gaps in the market and sets to play as a lot of those guys and there music shaped "harder" techno and with out them it gives us chance to move the music forward in our way.

To say you hate minimal is fair enough each to there own ... i would be a fool to tell anyone there wrong as i felt the same at first... i was like was is this crap but once i gave it time it grew on me and there is a reason why it is so massive... its quite good. Also main thing is in my eyes ... is it not better the kids get into minimal first rather than trance as then sooner or later they are going to want it harder ... im seeing it now people goin "I dont like minimal im into techno now" to be fair they dont have a clue and there just doing the fad thing and trying to stay to cool for school by saying it but the truth is they are already into techno if they like minimal they are just looking for a little more and thats where we come in with our pounding techno music hehe!

[Darkmode]

To be honest when the "minimal" thing first hit i was one of the people who was'nt into it it seemed to infect online stores like juno so that every other tune was some sripped back blippy bloppy thing... but i was more i wasnt giving it the time of day to realize that it is just a form of the music i love so much that is techno. In time ive been lucky enough to go to some amazing events and get hold of some amazing music on the more minimal side... I'm not saying im now a minimal dj or anything like that ...im a techno dj and im proud to stand up and say that in any place or time till the day i die... and given the chance i will play the sickest dark twisted techno known to man... but the world is a vast place and people like all diffrent forms of techno and i really want to be able to do a set of music that works in whatever event i am in. To be fair ive maybe played only a few more minmal sided sets always slipping in likes of bas mooy and christian wunch over the top of likes of alex bau to give it a darker hard edge, but never the less there is a minimal feel to some of my sets.

Minimal has been around since the start of techno , I played with hood the other month and that guy has been banging out ruff "minimal" sets since i was in school haha. Richie Hawtin records ive got from the 90's are such simple minimal ... this is not a new music it is just now it is in the main stream and thus all the big techno artists now move to where they can make a living and play to the biggest crowds. And as that happens more good music is made and it grows. The down side is a lot of the big "harder" techno djs have now moved to making just minimal and so has knock on effect that not such high sales in our side of the market ... but lets be fair it gives us all shoes to fill gaps in the market and sets to play as a lot of those guys and there music shaped "harder" techno and with out them it gives us chance to move the music forward in our way.

To say you hate minimal is fair enough each to there own ... i would be a fool to tell anyone there wrong as i felt the same at first... i was like was is this crap but once i gave it time it grew on me and there is a reason why it is so massive... its quite good. Also main thing is in my eyes ... is it not better the kids get into minimal first rather than trance as then sooner or later they are going to want it harder ... im seeing it now people goin "I dont like minimal im into techno now" to be fair they dont have a clue and there just doing the fad thing and trying to stay to cool for school by saying it but the truth is they are already into techno if they like minimal they are just looking for a little more and thats where we come in with our pounding techno music hehe!

I can see where you are coming from I like the early Minimal Techno from the 90's by Rob Hood,Jeff Mills & Mr Hawtin but I don't like the stuff that is classed as Minimal today

[Metacognition]

ill tell you what. there is some amazing minimal out there - check out format b's new album "steam circuit".. it bloody rocks

Word. I was about to ask for specific examples of this stuff people hate.

I got into Guido Schneider and Gaiser and the like two years or so ago, around a time nobody else I knew had heard of it, and I still think some of their output to be works of genius.

Then, all of a sudden it became something that people "hate" or something... not sure why.

[MARK ANXIOUS]

it is just a form of the music i love so much that is techno.

mate that really struck a chord with me today. i thought about all the shit i ever think about that is techno. and basically, it's every music imaginable that makes me think a certain way. i just can't describe it, but it's stuff that makes me think, makes me challenge myself. i suppose the whole fact that i got into production doesnt help cause i'm constantly thinking about what is wrong with the eq of whatever. damn it drives me nuts. :)

amoungst other things, i'll often flick over to radio 3 in the car on a weekend during gigs on a fri/sat and some experimental jazz shit will often pop up.... chrissi and i are like 'OMG this is soooooo techno'. obviously it isnt 'techno' in the 'genre' sense of the word but it's still techno - a bunch of ppl trying to make music that they class as good.

i think if you take any genre, any style, if you can tune into their frequency, more power to you.

you know what? the sooner ppl get over this genre thing the better. good music is good music. minimal can me really feckin damn good if you listen to the right stuff. it's just finding it amoungst the crap. but that's half the challenge eh?? heheh

[Dorian Hunter]

Everyone should listen to whatever he wants to, I totally agree with that.
My girlfriend can`t stand electronic music and I still love her.

But it makes me sad somehow when some of my personal heroes who made me start listening and producing Techno like Adam Beyer, Lars Klein, Marco Carola etc. etc. start to make boring stuff just because of sales figures.

Nothing against Minimal but respect to all who still do 100% pure Techno!

[Athar]

agreed, i like some minimal techno staff at the moment but music its a just big circle and good times for minimal will end someday,
im sure people will be boring to death with minimal, what will be next ?

i would love to get more bpm again, yeah 100% pure techno but im affraid i wont, tendency is geting slower with bpm unfortunately

[Darkmode]

mate that really struck a chord with me today. i thought about all the shit i ever think about that is techno. and basically, it's every music imaginable that makes me think a certain way. i just can't describe it, but it's stuff that makes me think, makes me challenge myself. i suppose the whole fact that i got into production doesnt help cause i'm constantly thinking about what is wrong with the eq of whatever. damn it drives me nuts. :)

amoungst other things, i'll often flick over to radio 3 in the car on a weekend during gigs on a fri/sat and some experimental jazz shit will often pop up.... chrissi and i are like 'OMG this is soooooo techno'. obviously it isnt 'techno' in the 'genre' sense of the word but it's still techno - a bunch of ppl trying to make music that they class as good.

i think if you take any genre, any style, if you can tune into their frequency, more power to you.

you know what? the sooner ppl get over this genre thing the better. good music is good music. minimal can me really feckin damn good if you listen to the right stuff. it's just finding it amoungst the crap. but that's half the challenge eh?? heheh

Yeah I think the whole genre thing annoying I remember the days when it was Electro, Techno, House, Trance & Drum & Bass now there is loads of stupid genre tags for music that is basicly the same

[djfilthmonger]

agreed, i like some minimal techno staff at the moment but music its a just big circle and good times for minimal will end someday,
im sure people will be boring to death with minimal, what will be next ?

i would love to get more bpm again, yeah 100% pure techno but im affraid i wont, tendency is geting slower with bpm unfortunately

I reckon the fidget house scene may boom. Kinda brings techno , electro and house followers altogether.
I havent heard anyone I have showed it to yet complain , Lot of postive taughts about this genre.

[DannyBlack]

Thats like your ma, she brings everyone together.

[Jay Pace]

But it makes me sad somehow when some of my personal heroes who made me start listening and producing Techno like Adam Beyer, Lars Klein, Marco Carola etc. etc. start to make boring stuff just because of sales figures.

Why do you assume they did it just because of the sales figures?

Adam Beyer was one of my heroes, and was one of the people who got me hooked on techno. But after a while he was churning out endless chuggy monotonous loopfests. The Mr Sliff records were a definite move away from that, and he's made IMO some of the best "minimal" out there, production that blows you away with a hard edged funk to it.

People progress, move on. Can't expect beyer to want to keep producing chug fests for ever. Same goes for Carola, Klein et all, I can really see an evolution in their output. People's tastes and creative ideas develop and evolve. I don't think they're producing stuff they hate just to make money, I think they like majority of the scene just moved on in terms of what they produced.

If everyone was still making loopy pounders I don't think I'd be that bothered about techno. It would be just another short lived genre that people eventually grew out of. Like happy hardcore.

The main clash I see is between hard techno culture and minimal culture which are at pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum. Musically though I don't think there's all that much in it, despite people's objections. Put through a decent rig, there are "minimal" tracks that sound just as brutal, dark, brooding and electrifying as the best hard techno - the same effect is just produced a different way.

The main "problem" I see is that the crowds, atmosphere, clubs and ages of punters is changing, and the old guard, the shaven haired techno army reject the younger "trendified" entrants into their camp, and feel somehow betrayed that the former leaders of the shaven haired army are now performing for a different crowd.

Much as people bitch and moan about the minimal "scene" and culture, most of the bitching is just recogntion that the new "scene" looks and feels different to the old scene. But I don't think blaming the music for the scene is fair. Or particularly productive. If everyone went back to producing loopy pounders tomorrow you wouldn't see a resurgence of 90s techno culture.

[Smear]

I think having loads of genres is a good thing, it makes it easy to spot someone who doesn't operate within them, and does something original or interesting.

Plus you have a small handful of big names, DJs, producers, promoters etc within each little scene. If you replaced that with one big scene, you'd probably end up with a much smaller amount of people making a much better living, fewer labels and parties to choose from, and fewer opportunities for young DJs, producers and nights to try and establish themselves.

It's good that a lot of people try not to pay too much attention to genres here, but they're never going to go away, and they can be handy as a rough guide or to help describe music. It's just a shame so many people take them as gospel, or worse, exploit them for themselves.

[rhythmtech]

to be honest i dont really see adam beyer as mnml at all.. some sounds he uses are pretty obviously from the mnml genre but his latest stuff is just funky techno really.

[djfilthmonger]

to be honest i dont really see adam beyer as mnml at all.. some sounds he uses are pretty obviously from the mnml genre but his latest stuff is just funky techno really.

swedish techno is a lovely style of tesh! and ur ma is beyer in my bed right now. gotta love the ginger pubes

[MARK ANXIOUS]

Why do you assume they did it just because of the sales figures?

Adam Beyer was one of my heroes, and was one of the people who got me hooked on techno. But after a while he was churning out endless chuggy monotonous loopfests. The Mr Sliff records were a definite move away from that, and he's made IMO some of the best "minimal" out there, production that blows you away with a hard edged funk to it.

People progress, move on. Can't expect beyer to want to keep producing chug fests for ever. Same goes for Carola, Klein et all, I can really see an evolution in their output. People's tastes and creative ideas develop and evolve. I don't think they're producing stuff they hate just to make money, I think they like majority of the scene just moved on in terms of what they produced.

If everyone was still making loopy pounders I don't think I'd be that bothered about techno. It would be just another short lived genre that people eventually grew out of. Like happy hardcore.

The main clash I see is between hard techno culture and minimal culture which are at pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum. Musically though I don't think there's all that much in it, despite people's objections. Put through a decent rig, there are "minimal" tracks that sound just as brutal, dark, brooding and electrifying as the best hard techno - the same effect is just produced a different way.

The main "problem" I see is that the crowds, atmosphere, clubs and ages of punters is changing, and the old guard, the shaven haired techno army reject the younger "trendified" entrants into their camp, and feel somehow betrayed that the former leaders of the shaven haired army are now performing for a different crowd.

Much as people bitch and moan about the minimal "scene" and culture, most of the bitching is just recogntion that the new "scene" looks and feels different to the old scene. But I don't think blaming the music for the scene is fair. Or particularly productive. If everyone went back to producing loopy pounders tomorrow you wouldn't see a resurgence of 90s techno culture.

ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT response imho. I was going to the say the same thing about dj's 'selling out'. It's not selling out, it's deeper than that eh. I really do think 90% of the time it's having to 'adapt', feeling you need to do it, even though you're kinda worried about it, then realising a few years later that it was the best thing you ever did and you're 10 times more excited about the music.

The way I feel about it all is once you've been playing to good crowd at the top of your game, really feeling that power of new and exciting music, the last thing you want to be doing is playing to six old-age'd ravers in an empty club. Fine, if you're at home with ya mates, and for the odd old school set here and there, but not really what you want to be doing once you've got the bug. It's a sad fact of music, but you really have to let go once the scene moves on. It's either that or get left behind.

As someone who (very luckily) gets to play in alot of diverse and different clubs here in the UK and abroad, I've seen so many scene's evolve and change over the years, whether it's techno, trance, house, acid, drum n bass, gabba, experimental, electro, happy hardcore (oh that was one point i didnt quite agree with ya jay - have you seen how big the happy hardcore scene is here in the UK, even today???????? it shits all over techno mate, probably most other styles for the 18-21 age range). They change cause they have to. They change cause new younger DJ's come in, with new ideas. They change cause new younger crowds come in with different clothes, a different atmosphere. They change cause new producers are influenced by that. And so it goes on....

It's sooooo obvious this change is all down to generation change. Generations affect the way music is. And you simply can't stop it. It's what keeps the wheel moving and the putters guessing. Embrace it. Force yourself to get into it. It might feel awkward at first, even criminal that you would dare to do such a thing, but you will NOT regret it. Mark my words.

Well it's either that or spending the later half of your life being annoyed with everything and everybody. God, I hope I don't come across someone like this in the OAP home :)

:lol:

[S.L.U.T Promotions]

mate that really struck a chord with me today. i thought about all the shit i ever think about that is techno. and basically, it's every music imaginable that makes me think a certain way. i just can't describe it, but it's stuff that makes me think, makes me challenge myself. i suppose the whole fact that i got into production doesnt help cause i'm constantly thinking about what is wrong with the eq of whatever. damn it drives me nuts. :)

amoungst other things, i'll often flick over to radio 3 in the car on a weekend during gigs on a fri/sat and some experimental jazz shit will often pop up.... chrissi and i are like 'OMG this is soooooo techno'. obviously it isnt 'techno' in the 'genre' sense of the word but it's still techno - a bunch of ppl trying to make music that they class as good.

i think if you take any genre, any style, if you can tune into their frequency, more power to you.

you know what? the sooner ppl get over this genre thing the better. good music is good music. minimal can me really feckin damn good if you listen to the right stuff. it's just finding it amoungst the crap. but that's half the challenge eh?? heheh

mark man....nail on the head....good music is just good music....you can find good qualities in anything you hear be it music or otherwise....if you work in a factory and over time the clunking of the machines that used to drive you nuts can turn into this industrial orchestra...the trains running over the weld in the tracks turns into a rhythmic pattern...tap into frequency's and your brain manipulates them into patterns and gives you a different out look as to how you percieve them....either that or ive had one too many disco biscuits in the height of the russian dispute ;)

[S.L.U.T Promotions]

ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT response imho. I was going to the say the same thing about dj's 'selling out'. It's not selling out, it's deeper than that eh. I really do think 90% of the time it's having to 'adapt', feeling you need to do it, even though you're kinda worried about it, then realising a few years later that it was the best thing you ever did and you're 10 times more excited about the music.

The way I feel about it all is once you've been playing to good crowd at the top of your game, really feeling that power of new and exciting music, the last thing you want to be doing is playing to six old-age'd ravers in an empty club. Fine, if you're at home with ya mates, and for the odd old school set here and there, but not really what you want to be doing once you've got the bug. It's a sad fact of music, but you really have to let go once the scene moves on. It's either that or get left behind.

As someone who (very luckily) gets to play in alot of diverse and different clubs here in the UK and abroad, I've seen so many scene's evolve and change over the years, whether it's techno, trance, house, acid, drum n bass, gabba, experimental, electro, happy hardcore (oh that was one point i didnt quite agree with ya jay - have you seen how big the happy hardcore scene is here in the UK, even today???????? it shits all over techno mate, probably most other styles for the 18-21 age range). They change cause they have to. They change cause new younger DJ's come in, with new ideas. They change cause new younger crowds come in with different clothes, a different atmosphere. They change cause new producers are influenced by that. And so it goes on....

It's sooooo obvious this change is all down to generation change. Generations affect the way music is. And you simply can't stop it. It's what keeps the wheel moving and the putters guessing. Embrace it. Force yourself to get into it. It might feel awkward at first, even criminal that you would dare to do such a thing, but you will NOT regret it. Mark my words.

Well it's either that or spending the later half of your life being annoyed with everything and everybody. God, I hope I don't come across someone like this in the OAP home :)

:lol:

its a musical evolution!!....animals and humans have been doing this right through the ages....it applies to everything....even music!....especially music!!!!

[the_psychologist]

i think that the plinkus plonkus school of minimal does have limited applications, but it can be really cool for creating a lull in a set, almost like a macro version of a single tune's breakdown/buildup.

i think the closest i got was Extrawelt's output, and their tunes are generally dense enough that i think they avoid the genre.

it is weird to me that the public at large, who generally embraces the cheeziest stuff, would develop a taste for music where "less is more". generally "more is more" with the masses. i think it must be regarded as "cool" or something.

[nickoc]

mate that really struck a chord with me today. i thought about all the shit i ever think about that is techno. and basically, it's every music imaginable that makes me think a certain way. i just can't describe it, but it's stuff that makes me think, makes me challenge myself...

Well put. At the end of the day, which 'genre' you perceive a certain piece of music falls into depends on your outlook, and what exactly you gain from the music, on a personal level.

For me. it's all goddam techno, it's just nice as a dj not to be restricted to slamming it out every time you get behind the decks. After all, we're not always playing peak-of-night sets to sweaty, heaving dancefloors are we?

With the variety offered by minimal, techno, and everything which lies in between, it's possible to play as your emotions take you, often resulting in a far deeper, more involving performance.