Start The War On Minimal

[MARK ANXIOUS]

Why do you assume they did it just because of the sales figures?

Adam Beyer was one of my heroes, and was one of the people who got me hooked on techno. But after a while he was churning out endless chuggy monotonous loopfests. The Mr Sliff records were a definite move away from that, and he's made IMO some of the best "minimal" out there, production that blows you away with a hard edged funk to it.

People progress, move on. Can't expect beyer to want to keep producing chug fests for ever. Same goes for Carola, Klein et all, I can really see an evolution in their output. People's tastes and creative ideas develop and evolve. I don't think they're producing stuff they hate just to make money, I think they like majority of the scene just moved on in terms of what they produced.

If everyone was still making loopy pounders I don't think I'd be that bothered about techno. It would be just another short lived genre that people eventually grew out of. Like happy hardcore.

The main clash I see is between hard techno culture and minimal culture which are at pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum. Musically though I don't think there's all that much in it, despite people's objections. Put through a decent rig, there are "minimal" tracks that sound just as brutal, dark, brooding and electrifying as the best hard techno - the same effect is just produced a different way.

The main "problem" I see is that the crowds, atmosphere, clubs and ages of punters is changing, and the old guard, the shaven haired techno army reject the younger "trendified" entrants into their camp, and feel somehow betrayed that the former leaders of the shaven haired army are now performing for a different crowd.

Much as people bitch and moan about the minimal "scene" and culture, most of the bitching is just recogntion that the new "scene" looks and feels different to the old scene. But I don't think blaming the music for the scene is fair. Or particularly productive. If everyone went back to producing loopy pounders tomorrow you wouldn't see a resurgence of 90s techno culture.

ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT response imho. I was going to the say the same thing about dj's 'selling out'. It's not selling out, it's deeper than that eh. I really do think 90% of the time it's having to 'adapt', feeling you need to do it, even though you're kinda worried about it, then realising a few years later that it was the best thing you ever did and you're 10 times more excited about the music.

The way I feel about it all is once you've been playing to good crowd at the top of your game, really feeling that power of new and exciting music, the last thing you want to be doing is playing to six old-age'd ravers in an empty club. Fine, if you're at home with ya mates, and for the odd old school set here and there, but not really what you want to be doing once you've got the bug. It's a sad fact of music, but you really have to let go once the scene moves on. It's either that or get left behind.

As someone who (very luckily) gets to play in alot of diverse and different clubs here in the UK and abroad, I've seen so many scene's evolve and change over the years, whether it's techno, trance, house, acid, drum n bass, gabba, experimental, electro, happy hardcore (oh that was one point i didnt quite agree with ya jay - have you seen how big the happy hardcore scene is here in the UK, even today???????? it shits all over techno mate, probably most other styles for the 18-21 age range). They change cause they have to. They change cause new younger DJ's come in, with new ideas. They change cause new younger crowds come in with different clothes, a different atmosphere. They change cause new producers are influenced by that. And so it goes on....

It's sooooo obvious this change is all down to generation change. Generations affect the way music is. And you simply can't stop it. It's what keeps the wheel moving and the putters guessing. Embrace it. Force yourself to get into it. It might feel awkward at first, even criminal that you would dare to do such a thing, but you will NOT regret it. Mark my words.

Well it's either that or spending the later half of your life being annoyed with everything and everybody. God, I hope I don't come across someone like this in the OAP home :)

:lol:

[S.L.U.T Promotions]

ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT response imho. I was going to the say the same thing about dj's 'selling out'. It's not selling out, it's deeper than that eh. I really do think 90% of the time it's having to 'adapt', feeling you need to do it, even though you're kinda worried about it, then realising a few years later that it was the best thing you ever did and you're 10 times more excited about the music.

The way I feel about it all is once you've been playing to good crowd at the top of your game, really feeling that power of new and exciting music, the last thing you want to be doing is playing to six old-age'd ravers in an empty club. Fine, if you're at home with ya mates, and for the odd old school set here and there, but not really what you want to be doing once you've got the bug. It's a sad fact of music, but you really have to let go once the scene moves on. It's either that or get left behind.

As someone who (very luckily) gets to play in alot of diverse and different clubs here in the UK and abroad, I've seen so many scene's evolve and change over the years, whether it's techno, trance, house, acid, drum n bass, gabba, experimental, electro, happy hardcore (oh that was one point i didnt quite agree with ya jay - have you seen how big the happy hardcore scene is here in the UK, even today???????? it shits all over techno mate, probably most other styles for the 18-21 age range). They change cause they have to. They change cause new younger DJ's come in, with new ideas. They change cause new younger crowds come in with different clothes, a different atmosphere. They change cause new producers are influenced by that. And so it goes on....

It's sooooo obvious this change is all down to generation change. Generations affect the way music is. And you simply can't stop it. It's what keeps the wheel moving and the putters guessing. Embrace it. Force yourself to get into it. It might feel awkward at first, even criminal that you would dare to do such a thing, but you will NOT regret it. Mark my words.

Well it's either that or spending the later half of your life being annoyed with everything and everybody. God, I hope I don't come across someone like this in the OAP home :)

:lol:

its a musical evolution!!....animals and humans have been doing this right through the ages....it applies to everything....even music!....especially music!!!!

[Jay Pace]

that was one point i didnt quite agree with ya jay - have you seen how big the happy hardcore scene is here in the UK, even today???????? it shits all over techno mate, probably most other styles for the 18-21 age range

hehe its still massive, and fair play to everyone involved in that scene. I went to a few nostalgic happy hardcore raves about 2002 and was suprised to find happy hardcore had mutated into this mad bouncey full on gabba sound. But its a "frozen in time" sound. People fall into it in their teens then grow out of it. The older gen grow out of it and either fall out of dance music altogether or use happy hardcore as a stepping stone to something else. Techno for example. Stacks of techno fans came down the well trodden path from hardcore to TEKNO to techno. But whilst techno fans grow old, happy hardcore seems destined to be forever full of teeny boppers.

Happy hardcore is a sort of phase, a "rights of passage" young ravers go through. There's nobody I know now, despite the claims how "hardcore will never die" who still listens to much it. There was a time and a place....

Its what I love about techno. Still does the tingles for me, but no issues with the mind tickle or the good honest stomp. But I've been happy as larry that in recent years there are producers out there who can whip up a full on stomp at 130bpm without trying to burst my eardrums with distorted noises. Credit to all the producers who made the transition and did it with style.

[Barely Human]

Music is what it is. Doesnt matter what the arrangement is as long as it stirs something inside you. The difference ive found with techno is it isnt instantly accesable. It grows on you. When I first heard some of my favorite tracks, I didn't think they were anything special. But they got under my skin after a while and these are the tracks which still stir me today.

Most of the music I apprieciate the most is not techno. I love all music for what it is.

Remember, music is not something that can be created, it can only be found. That is to say it was already here, you cant create a new sound, you just discover it.

A lot of things we hear have been done over again through the course of time, speaking of happy hardcore, check this track out from the 1960's and see the similarities to 1996/1997 happy hardcore - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8_UN1Sz4XM

[tocsin]

It's sooooo obvious this change is all down to generation change. Generations affect the way music is. And you simply can't stop it. It's what keeps the wheel moving and the putters guessing. Embrace it. Force yourself to get into it. It might feel awkward at first, even criminal that you would dare to do such a thing, but you will NOT regret it. Mark my words.

One thing that I've found particularly amusing for the better part of the last decade is that what you say above is something that even needs to be pointed out to another into making techno music. I just don't get it. The one thing that absolutely got me hooked on making "techno" music was the ability to create actual sounds I hadn't heard before which don't occur in nature, and arrange them in ways which aren't really possible under any other circumstances. It was a change from the very beginning, and has largely been a journey of chasing after something exciting and unique from there. In my opinion, not changing it up is exactly the same as change for the worse.

[Dorian Hunter]

I can`t see why it is called innovative when Techno is getting more and more boring but I guess I`m just ignorant :)

[RDR]

I work in a college and get to see a lot of kids coming through who like Happy Hardcore... but they also like RnB and Drum and Bass in equal measure. Usually through the sound of tinny sony ericson speakers.

The hardcore scene is MAHOOSIVE and i get the impression its a well run, commercially viable form of entertainment. But then the people who run it obviously realised YEARS ago that it was entertainment - not really an underground scene, but a way for people to enjoy themselves. They started out doing massive events and stuck with it - pleasure island, doncaster dome, destruxion etc etc. Its the dance music equivalent of stadium rock.

@Jay - dont you think most genres of music are stuck in time, one way or another? I do - but thats why people like them i think.

Minimal? - i like it, it works, people enjoy it, there's crap tunes and great tunes. Good production is what counts, vibe and spirit and you'll always get that when a group of musicians get into a sound.

[Jay Pace]

@Jay - dont you think most genres of music are stuck in time, one way or another? I do - but thats why people like them i think.

Not explained myself well on this at all. Musically its changed loads, the old school hardcore sound mutuated into the utra fast piano rolling breakbeat sound, followed by 4beat followed by fairly hefty gabber styles. Musically it moved with the times. Quite like all of the different styles tbh, but the crowds at hardcore raves seem destined to be forever young (classic choon) and aged 14-20.

After a while you grow out that sound and that atmosphere, and want something different that hardcore can't really provide. Most people I know are the same, wanted a different atmosphere in a club, got more into the music itself etc. Might be a boring old **** but I've had loads more fun going out since music got slower and less in your face... Sometimes you want a full on stomp, but not all the time.

[davethedrummer]

I can`t see why it is called innovative when Techno is getting more and more boring but I guess I`m just ignorant :)

techno is NOT getting more and more boring
sorry but that is not true.

[S.L.U.T Promotions]

techno is NOT getting more and more boring
sorry but that is not true.

too right henry....what is that lad on about...is even on the right forum to be saying such comments?!?!?!

just got me a download of sparks to rinse @ S.L.U.T on saturday ;)

crackin track!...not boring ATALL!....inovative to sat the least