thieves and pirates

[gunjack]

etc seem to think that it is ok not to pay artists because vinyl is a "promotional medium"

the truth is, this is how it works:

a label and distro SELL records. if the record makes just enough to pay for its own production IT IS USUALLY CONSIDERED A FAILURE and the label does not continue.

after recovering the manufacturing costs, if there is a profit then that money is payed out to the label head within 90 days of the statement. if the "label owner" is realeasing other ppl's music on said label IT IS HIS/HER DUTY to send copies of statements and payouts to artists when applicable.


ANY ARTIST OR LABEL WHO RELEASES YOUR MUSIC AN DOES NOT PAY YOU AT LEAST SOME SORT OF GESTURE is robbing you. ANY ARTIST OR LABEL WHO DENIES YOU A COPY OF SALES STATEMENTS IS VIOLATING YOUR RIGHTS.


simple as that.


so called "label owners" should ONLY ever make a profit above manufacturing costs if said "label owner" HAS WRITTEN SOME OF THE MUSIC on the release or the sales are enought to pay the artist first and recieve earnings. in every other case the artist SHOULD BE PAID BEFORE THE LABEL tries to squeeze a profit and within 90 days of the first statement!



THIS IS ETHICAL BIZ


any other type of deal is a SCAM



now you know.

[Numeric]

are you gonna serve us a new techno pa any time soon? :cheese:

the dub set was nice btw

[gunjack]

are you gonna serve us a new techno pa any time soon? :cheese:

the dub set was nice btw

thanks!

on valentines day a mixed set will air which contains techno and dub tracks via mantis radio....... DVNT is a member here i am sure he will post it in the mixes section. aslo i will record my set at montemapu festival if you like bruv. mostly techno that will be.

[stjohn]

get back into that studio and make some f**** music will you?

:lol:

[Numeric]

get back into that studio and make some f**** music will you?

:lol:

innit :lol:

[Numeric]

thanks!

on valentines day a mixed set will air which contains techno and dub tracks via mantis radio....... DVNT is a member here i am sure he will post it in the mixes section. aslo i will record my set at montemapu festival if you like bruv. mostly techno that will be.

thanks man, cool :)

[gunjack]

THOSE WHO ACTUALLY CREATE THE MUSIC DO HAVE RIGHTS even though unethical "label owners" try to tell you otherwise.


it is simple arithmetic:

if you print 500 records at 1500 euros for the batch. distribution price is 5 euro, that is 2500 euro!!! lets say the disto gets 500 euros of that, you have still made 1000 euros above the costs of manufacturing!

let's say you are on a P&D and the distro keeps manufacturing costs plus 1000 euro, YOU STILL HAVE 500 EURO IN YOUR POCKET, how you split that with the artist is entirely up to the (reputation and repeat biz of the) label but 500 - 1000 euros is GOOD MONEY.... good money that can easily be split into 150 dollar payments to various artists or whatever and the label still truns a profit.


so any label that refuses to even pay you 75 - 100 dollars per track IS RIPPING YOU OFF.


and any label that can not sell 500 copies of a record SHOULD NOT CONTINUE running at a loss.


reputable labels should be able to pay you at least some sort of gesture within 90 days and this is a FACT.

[Athar]

if you print 500 records at 1500 euros for the batch. distribution price is 5 euro that is 2500 euro!!! lets say the disto gets 500 euros of that, you have still made 1000 euros above the costs of manufacturing!

tell me the address of that distro

will switch my old one to yours immediately!

[Infraction_Bot_3000]

ATTENTION USERS:

MAINFRAME has determined this thread may continue as legitimate discussion of legitimate issues of piracy and related.

MAINFRAME is concerned this thread may degenerate into abuse of forum.

MAINFRAME suggests continuing conversation, but as abstract topic, not as attack on individuals.

[Numeric]

you haven't just banned gunny have you?

ffs

[Infraction_Bot_3000]

ATTENTION USER: numeric.

USER: gunjack is on administrative leave for 24 hours.

[Numeric]

was it really necessary to ban him? even if it's only for 24 hours

[dirty_bass]

was it really necessary to ban him? even if it's only for 24 hours

considering every time he comes onto the forum, he causes loads of shit, and stirs up flame wars, I think a 24 hour ban is exceedingly lenient considering others have been banned for far less.

[Numeric]

considering every time he comes onto the forum, he causes loads of shit, and stirs up flame wars, I think a 24 hour ban is exceedingly lenient considering others have been banned for far less.

so what if he causes shit, this place is boring without a few flames now and again, if you can't stand the heat...

gunny's a legend :lol:

[DarkYoung]

so what if he causes shit, this place is boring without a few flames now and again, if you can't stand the heat...

gunny's a legend :lol:

damn straight he is.

you need people like Gunjerk on sites like this to add some madcap antics and some celebrity showbiz.

have boring wankers spout about how good they are everyday etc is really old-fashioned and not going to get new people into the scene imo.

[dirty_bass]

I hate to point out the flaming obvious, but if you are going to claim I am taking a stance, at least get the facts right.

I said this

I don`t know many labels these days in techno that can actually afford to pay anyone.
Vinyl is an expensive business card these days.

Now unless I have suddenly been struck down with blindness, nowhere did I say I think it`s ok not to pay artists. But lets not let facts get in the way of a good rant ey?

Everyone who released on my label back when I was pressing vinyl, got paid, in advance actually, out of my own, rather empty pockets, just for the record.

I have been both paid for, and unpaid for releases on other peoples labels also. Now I make my money from mastering, it no longer bothers me.

I don`t think it`s right not getting paid for releases, but in this day and age, when vinyl makes shit all money, I can understand it. Vinyl has become pretty much purely a gigging DJ`s tool, and die hard collectors luxury, particularly in the harder end of techno.

Most of the harder techno is barely selling 500 copies these days.
So you aren`t looking at a run away and buy a new car profit.
I think under current manufacturing costs you are looking like walking away with maybe 200 jib if you are very lucky, although it has been a while since I checked manufacturing costs.

Last time I pressed up it cost around £720 to cut and press 500 2 colour vinyls.
Mailing out whites to the promo list added another £50 or £60

Sales on 500 come back at £2 a pop so you are looking at a £1000 in return.

Distrib normally charge carriage fees for moving the vinyl, or you have to pay to get it to their warehouse yourself, so add another £40 in courier fees.

1000-820= 180, so if you sell out then yes there is enough to throw £100 to the artists. IF you self press.

With a P&D I believe a management fee is also taken out of this.
My figures are a couple of years old here.

So we aren`t looking at go out and buy a house money for anyone but the distrib really.

Yes the artist should still be paid, and the monies, whatever they are should be split 50/50 really, or maybe slightly more in favour of the laebl owner as they are risking their money, but all this should be negotiated before you do the deed.


This is all by the by, your reason for this thread is basically to bitch rather than make any major statement.

Now if Hardsignal IS one of the bigest hard techno labels out there, then the artists should have got paid, as there should have been more sales than 500 if it IS the biggest.
But surely this is for the artists to discuss with Frank no?

[Athar]

Last time I pressed up it cost around £720 to cut and press 500 2 colour vinyls.
Mailing out whites to the promo list added another £50 or £60

Sales on 500 come back at £2 a pop so you are looking at a £1000 in return.

Distrib normally charge carriage fees for moving the vinyl, or you have to pay to get it to their warehouse yourself, so add another £40 in courier fees.

1000-820= 180, so if you sell out then yes there is enough to throw £100 to the artists. IF you self press.

exaclly

you will get £1000 back when they (your distro) sold everything (100%),
and of course your distro will get all money back from all shops around
normally it's nearly impossible

profit ? what's profit ?

[jon connor]

it upsets me when i see this stuff going on here are we supposed to support our community not damage it i think i need a big hug now and a cup of tea and mabey a digestive biscuit

dirty base for prime minister hahahahahhah

[SlavikSvensk]

Yes the artist should still be paid, and the monies, whatever they are should be split 50/50 really, or maybe slightly more in favour of the laebl owner as they are risking their money, but all this should be negotiated before you do the deed.

+1

if you are concerned about getting money you think is owed you, drawing up a negotiated contract is absolutely vital. setting an advance or a % of profits are both standard practices in ANY contractual agreement. then, if the artist feels he or she has been treated unfairly, he or she can take the label to small claims court. the court can then decide whether the artist or the label is wasting its time.

if you don't negotiate payment up front, you really can't expect much.

[The_Laughing_Man]

+1

if you are concerned about getting money you think is owed you, drawing up a negotiated contract is absolutely vital. setting an advance or a % of profits are both standard practices in ANY contractual agreement. then, if the artist feels he or she has been treated unfairly, he or she can take the label to small claims court. the court can then decide whether the artist or the label is wasting its time.

if you don't negotiate payment up front, you really can't expect much.

Well, I think you can go down that road when it looks like the money might be worth it, or you are dealing with some larger company or someone you don`t know, but when things are this small and niche it isn`t always necessary.
In the techno field was and still is a system of mutual aid.
You develop a rapport with someone and then you swap tracks, or help a guy out with a release for a gig, or whatever, a system of mutual trust, which quite frankly feels much better. If someone is an ass then generally the community gets to know about it.
We all talk to each other and the wankers generally get steered around, so public outbursts like todays fiasco are just not needed, it`s ugly.
Despite all our bickering, it`s just banter for the most part, and I like to think (call me idealistic if you like) that we are all in the same boat and generally steer this rather ragged little boat in the direction we all want to go.

This attitude seems more prevailent amongst those that came from the free party/rave side of things admittedly.

But then, we were there, broke as phuck and banging it out in dirty warehouses long before money was even considered as part of it.
A relationship that survived those kind of conditions will tend to last regardless of money.