thieves and pirates

[SlavikSvensk]

Yes the artist should still be paid, and the monies, whatever they are should be split 50/50 really, or maybe slightly more in favour of the laebl owner as they are risking their money, but all this should be negotiated before you do the deed.

+1

if you are concerned about getting money you think is owed you, drawing up a negotiated contract is absolutely vital. setting an advance or a % of profits are both standard practices in ANY contractual agreement. then, if the artist feels he or she has been treated unfairly, he or she can take the label to small claims court. the court can then decide whether the artist or the label is wasting its time.

if you don't negotiate payment up front, you really can't expect much.

[RDR]

i wish i was making enough money off the label to pay people. ive sent distro statements in the past to artists to show them those lovely red minus figures. thankfully all artists have been clued up enough to understand the situation.

+1

as for the money... err HAHAHA... let me re-phrase that... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..

*wipes tears away*

If i did this for the money i wouldnt do it for the money.

someone said that. Maybe that someone was me. But some DID say it.

Some people need to go and have a nice long ham shank and think about what they might have for breakfast.

That person might well be me. or you.

probably me.

Gnite.

[The_Laughing_Man]

+1

if you are concerned about getting money you think is owed you, drawing up a negotiated contract is absolutely vital. setting an advance or a % of profits are both standard practices in ANY contractual agreement. then, if the artist feels he or she has been treated unfairly, he or she can take the label to small claims court. the court can then decide whether the artist or the label is wasting its time.

if you don't negotiate payment up front, you really can't expect much.

Well, I think you can go down that road when it looks like the money might be worth it, or you are dealing with some larger company or someone you don`t know, but when things are this small and niche it isn`t always necessary.
In the techno field was and still is a system of mutual aid.
You develop a rapport with someone and then you swap tracks, or help a guy out with a release for a gig, or whatever, a system of mutual trust, which quite frankly feels much better. If someone is an ass then generally the community gets to know about it.
We all talk to each other and the wankers generally get steered around, so public outbursts like todays fiasco are just not needed, it`s ugly.
Despite all our bickering, it`s just banter for the most part, and I like to think (call me idealistic if you like) that we are all in the same boat and generally steer this rather ragged little boat in the direction we all want to go.

This attitude seems more prevailent amongst those that came from the free party/rave side of things admittedly.

But then, we were there, broke as phuck and banging it out in dirty warehouses long before money was even considered as part of it.
A relationship that survived those kind of conditions will tend to last regardless of money.

[SlavikSvensk]

well, yeah. if you aren't that bothered about the money, then that's one thing. in this case, if it's not, you're also fairly okay with it. you understand this might happen going in, and it's not the biggest deal in the world to you.

but if, at the end of the day, the money is VERY important to you, in the sense that you expect a certain amount or a set percentage, then you are shooting yourself in the foot by not drawing up a contract in advance. if someone promises you money and doesn't give it to you, and you think this was unfair, then you really have no options if you have no contract.

[The Overfiend]

I've had three records released in my life. The fact that I got paid for any of them was frankly just sugar on the top. I have never made music with a desire to get paid for it. For me it's reward enough that someone thinks it's good enough to get pressed and / or buy it.

I appreciate that for some people making music is a career - and fair play to them. Frankly though, the state of the industry (not to mention the whole world) being as it is, you have to face certain realities. Very rarely does a release (particularly a vinyl release) recoup costs these days - unless it's either a well known name or it really is plowing a godforsaken MOR cheese canal.

I'm not saying that work shouldn't be rewarded, I just think that making and releasing music isn't a bankable profession anymore - if it ever really was outside of extreme cases.

This has good and bad points. On the one hand, perhaps there won't be as much music around. On the other, perhaps the only people making it will be those who will only ever do it for the sheer love of it. That sounds like a pretty good state of affairs to me.

Very True.

[DJPAUZE]

Well, I think you can go down that road when it looks like the money might be worth it, or you are dealing with some larger company or someone you don`t know, but when things are this small and niche it isn`t always necessary.
In the techno field was and still is a system of mutual aid.
You develop a rapport with someone and then you swap tracks, or help a guy out with a release for a gig, or whatever, a system of mutual trust, which quite frankly feels much better. If someone is an ass then generally the community gets to know about it.
We all talk to each other and the wankers generally get steered around, so public outbursts like todays fiasco are just not needed, it`s ugly.
Despite all our bickering, it`s just banter for the most part, and I like to think (call me idealistic if you like) that we are all in the same boat and generally steer this rather ragged little boat in the direction we all want to go.

This attitude seems more prevailent amongst those that came from the free party/rave side of things admittedly.

But then, we were there, broke as phuck and banging it out in dirty warehouses long before money was even considered as part of it.
A relationship that survived those kind of conditions will tend to last regardless of money.

This is exactly my point, I am so glad we see eye to eye on this. Trading tracks, swapping ideas. Staying as a collective. It's hard enough as it is with our tight small community of techno producers. I'd LOVE to fork over tons of loot to everyone i get on board, but at the end of the day there is no money. Yea I pay for my server. So what? I got a good friend who does my artwork free, because he loves techno. I also have a bunch of artists on my label who want to get out there and expose their names. So if they are okay with it, is ther a problem?

As said in one earlier post, unless you make a solid contractual agreement, don't expect much in return. You might get your break here and there, maybe a couple of euros/pounds or something along that line but expect to get a cent. Your money will come from gigs, hopefully.

Patrick and I did a track on Fine Audio, a pretty well known label out there. Know what we got? 1 promo. That's it. I ddn't expect anything, I got EXACTLY what I thought I would. Who cares, I have a job to pay for my bread and butter.

I don't rely on this business to pay my bills, I do it with my pocket money, to promote the music I love to listen to. For those of you that do rely on it to stay alive, and have succeeded, power to you. I am glad you are working with labels that can afford it.

[Numeric]

considering every time he comes onto the forum, he causes loads of shit, and stirs up flame wars, I think a 24 hour ban is exceedingly lenient considering others have been banned for far less.

so what if he causes shit, this place is boring without a few flames now and again, if you can't stand the heat...

gunny's a legend :lol:

[The_Laughing_Man]

well sure, I like a good rant, but I thought mark didn`t want that sort of thing here.

If we are here to rant I have a hole big baaaaaaaag of dirt on people in this industry I could throw up for shits and giggles.

[jon connor]

quite so this is not the place to air your dirty linnen.

I DONT WANT TO SEE THIS SHIT HERE NO MORE ITS SCARED ENOUGH PEOPLE AWAY!

Steve you are a legend and a credit to this site and techno in general. respect bro!

[judas_beast]

whats wrong with selling drugs to make money and doing Techno ''for the love''?

/tongue in cheek

[DJPAUZE]

whats wrong with selling drugs to make money and doing Techno ''for the love''?

/tongue in cheek

haha

[DarkYoung]

so what if he causes shit, this place is boring without a few flames now and again, if you can't stand the heat...

gunny's a legend :lol:

damn straight he is.

you need people like Gunjerk on sites like this to add some madcap antics and some celebrity showbiz.

have boring wankers spout about how good they are everyday etc is really old-fashioned and not going to get new people into the scene imo.

[morbid]

whats wrong with selling drugs to make money and doing Techno ''for the love''?

/tongue in cheek

innit...

who needs a vinyl release anyway - litre of k and a free party and youve got 750 quid easily

[DJPAUZE]

damn straight he is.

you need people like Gunjerk on sites like this to add some madcap antics and some celebrity showbiz.

have boring wankers spout about how good they are everyday etc is really old-fashioned and not going to get new people into the scene imo.

Yea, livening up the bunch is great, but personally attacking people is not.

Sorry, but if it were your name on the line you wouldn't be that happy about it. Nuff said.

[DarkYoung]

Yea, livening up the bunch is great, but personally attacking people is not.

Sorry, but if it were your name on the line you wouldn't be that happy about it. Nuff said.

dude excuse me if i have got this wrong. but i've noticed you and gunjerk and tony and a few others on the peripherary; whipping it between yourselves all the time, you guys love it. i'm sorry but that's how i see it, you guys like need your heads bashing together, your all friends but somethings gone wrong, it can be fixed.

[gunjack]

hi guys! i am back! but not for long. this will be MY LAST post here it is just too much that i get banned for ranting on the honest to god's truth SO I AM DONE and if you don't believe it, BEHOLD.

and you will see that I WILL NOT COME BACK


tony wetworks, pat dsp, mark, much luv to yo guys AND MANY **** YOU's TO SNAKES LIKE DJ PAUZE

[DarkYoung]

hi guys! i am back! but not for long. this will be MY LAST post here it is just too much that i get banned for ranting on the honest to god's truth SO I AM DONE and if you don't believe it, BEHOLD.

and you will see that I WILL NOT COME BACK


tony wetworks, pat dsp, mark, much luv to yo guys AND MANY **** YOU's TO SNAKES LIKE DJ PAUZE

we need an archive for the many resignation speeches we've had over the years. see you in 6 months when you've dropped your ego.
it's like the mafia this place or freemasonry, once you join you can never truly leave.
is there a word for this i don't know someone who resigns but then comes back?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-X5H...eature=related

[DJPAUZE]

we need an archive for the many resignation speeches we've had over the years. see you in 6 months when you've dropped your ego.
it's like the mafia this place or freemasonry, once you join you can never truly leave.
is there a word for this i don't know someone who resigns but then comes back?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-X5H...eature=related

HAHA, well said DarkYoung, now we can have some peace and quiet.

[DarkYoung]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PATRICK-DSP-DJ...3A1|240%3A1318

[The Overfiend]

Pat did a great job on that album.
Je suis Mafia K1-Fry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTPP8ge-ohQ