Credit Crunch vs Arrogance of Big Names

[SlavikSvensk]

I think its like anything when it comes down to money, especially with the big names.

At the end of the day, DJs are only worth the money people/promoters are willing to pay. If they are too much for what they bring to the club night then after a while, promoters will stop booking them. The DJ then probley will have to lower his/her fee to get gigs.

If the scene dies out then no money for any DJs so it sorts its self out in the end.

Money always ****s up dance music scenes but pros need to earn money like anyone else.

well put, and i agree.

but if they refuse to follow the market and cut their fees, they also **** the scene

[Darkmode]

well put, and i agree.

but if they refuse to follow the market and cut their fees, they also **** the scene

I agree I think greed has totally ****ed up the dance music scene in general

[TechMouse]

All the more reason to book some lesser known guys.

[DarkYoung]

All the more reason to book some lesser known guys.

i'll take a packet of pork scratchings and a can of tennants super-strength.

[davethedrummer]

I think it's a bit too easy to take pot shots at well known djs for asking for high fees
it's more the promoters for massaging their egos and letting them get away with it.
I get horror stories regularly , sometimes by the very promoters who I am playing for.....
now thats weird.

I keep my fee low , but i push it up when i can ( festivals etc )
but if you are used to playing awakening , Monegros , I love Techno, Ibiza etc etc etc
then i guess you assume you can get that kind of money everywhere
and if people pay it to you and lose out a result then.........

the change has to come from the inside
new faces, getting their mates down to see them play and working with the venues
to create a scene that will last and go forward.
and possibly earn dosh , also production is a must these days for any artist
and that is a major job in itself , not just writing the odd track
but promoting and getting good labels interested.

Most venues will book a well known guy once a month or so just to keep their crowd interested
even when they know they will lose out.
it's no good just putting unknown people on week after week
you'll never move forward like that , even the really underground clubs do it
it's just relative thats all , for example chris lib and myself are big names in the acid techno world
but only there nowhere else , we never play I love techno or anything similar
I get asked why not all the time , but the truth is they've just never booked me.
but small promoters around the country take a chance on us to help promote their clubs and their residents , I can't say it's always successful but sometimes it works really well.
and thats the way it is on a larger scale too.

There is no end to this argument
you just can't wind the clock back or forward , people like jeff mills and dave clark and all that
are who they are for a reason , and that reason is based on longevity and strength of past music.
If you can keep it up for as long as they have , and come up with real amazing concepts and major changes in the music then you can have a crack at the whip too
but I'm going to admit it is WAY harder to do that now !
what with the dance music industry being completely sewn up
by a relatively small group of major promoters and artists.
your best bet is to get with the underground and work your way through that.
it does happen, I see people moving forward all the time , it just boils down to hard work.
and it's best not to gripe about other djs wages or anything
cos t.b.h. it's really none of your business
and professionally it doesn't help you at all.

[The Overfiend]

and it's best not to gripe about other djs wages or anything
cos t.b.h. it's really none of your business
and professionally it doesn't help you at all.

Such a good point.

[The_Laughing_Man]

Such a good point.

not really, no one is griping about wages, it`s about attitude and also looking further on than just one week ahead.

But it is easier to just shut up, bend over and take it up the ass.

A big problem with this game, and another point altogether.
PEople to scared to say what`s on their mind because it might jeapordise a gig, a release or whatever.
Way too much brown nosing.

[Sunil]

Well, no-one is putting a gun to many of these promoters' heads forcing them to book an act. If in this climate they can't broker a good deal, then they either aren't doing their job well, or that artist just isn't worth booking.
Don't just blame the djs either. Behind every big, very well paid dj... is an agent :)

The business flights thing, paying to bring tour managers over etc. is horse shit for sure - although if you are Carl Cox or someone then that won't be a problem, he's gonna sell your club out, so there's no problem.
In techno at the moment, I think there are loads of people that are willing to cut a deal, while on another hand there are some that haven't accepted that they need to take a drop - like you mentioned DB. Then of course there are those who feel that by reducing their fee will depreciate their general value. Y'know it's catch 22 when you get into that area of things - for smaller scale gigs especially - if a promoter gets a dj for a bargain, he/she is likely to put in less effort promoting it because there is less on the line, and often the gig can be crap. Likewise, if a fee is dropped, word starts to spead about that with other promoters, which may not be a positive thing for the dj.

Where there's a bigger fee or costs on the table, you can be guaranteed that the promoter will be trying a lot more, which often leads to a better and more well attended gig. All of these things taken into consideration though, I think it's still safe to say that things are pretty ****ed at the moment! Nothing is a guarantee, other than a very select few names.. In terms of underground techno, I think there are problems related to the music too, and the fact that it isn't followed as closely by younger generations coming through at all.. We've had this conversation before, but nothing's changed since. 2004 was where it all started to change I think :(

It's time for more promoters to take risks though. All that can be achieved at this stage for many is to go for broke, and break in newer (or already established) inexpensive names. There's more to putting on gigs than firing a name or two on a poster, there are many ways to create or buzz around a gig if you have good ideas and the right people around you. One surefire way is to build up new unknown local djs to do warm up slots, that will bring their mates etc. (you need to choose wisely as well). If you are starting gigs to put on just you, your mates and a big name, then you could be making a fatal mistake.. you need to share the load, bring as much new support to the night, and then capitalise on that when you put on a big name. Then hopefully the helicopter rides, powder, champagne etc. for the guest won't be a problem to have to fork out on!

Any perspective techno night that think banging it out for a full night is going to be a success, should just give up now. The proof has been there for ages that these nights don't last, and that venues don't like it either. Build up to the heavy stuff, and make sure you have enough material that girls might really like to move to too :) Lastly.. maybe just throw out the whole idea of a techno only night, or an any one-type-of-genre night: if you're going to do that it should probably be a night of indie electro, disco punk or whatever is hot right now.

[The_Laughing_Man]

Well, no-one is putting a gun to many of these promoters' heads forcing them to book an act. If in this climate they can't broker a good deal, then they either aren't doing their job well, or that artist just isn't worth booking.
Don't just blame the djs either. Behind every big, very well paid dj... is an agent :)

The business flights thing, paying to bring tour managers over etc. is horse shit for sure - although if you are Carl Cox or someone then that won't be a problem, he's gonna sell your club out, so there's no problem.
In techno at the moment, I think there are loads of people that are willing to cut a deal, while on another hand there are some that haven't accepted that they need to take a drop - like you mentioned DB. Then of course there are those who feel that by reducing their fee will depreciate their general value. Y'know it's catch 22 when you get into that area of things - for smaller scale gigs especially - if a promoter gets a dj for a bargain, he/she is likely to put in less effort promoting it because there is less on the line, and often the gig can be crap. Likewise, if a fee is dropped, word starts to spead about that with other promoters, which may not be a positive thing for the dj.

Where there's a bigger fee or costs on the table, you can be guaranteed that the promoter will be trying a lot more, which often leads to a better and more well attended gig. All of these things taken into consideration though, I think it's still safe to say that things are pretty ****ed at the moment! Nothing is a guarantee, other than a very select few names.. In terms of underground techno, I think there are problems related to the music too, and the fact that it isn't followed as closely by younger generations coming through at all.. We've had this conversation before, but nothing's changed since. 2004 was where it all started to change I think :(

It's time for more promoters to take risks though. All that can be achieved at this stage for many is to go for broke, and break in newer (or already established) inexpensive names. There's more to putting on gigs than firing a name or two on a poster, there are many ways to create or buzz around a gig if you have good ideas and the right people around you. One surefire way is to build up new unknown local djs to do warm up slots, that will bring their mates etc. (you need to choose wisely as well). If you are starting gigs to put on just you, your mates and a big name, then you could be making a fatal mistake.. you need to share the load, bring as much new support to the night, and then capitalise on that when you put on a big name. Then hopefully the helicopter rides, powder, champagne etc. for the guest won't be a problem to have to fork out on!

Any perspective techno night that think banging it out for a full night is going to be a success, should just give up now. The proof has been there for ages that these nights don't last, and that venues don't like it either. Build up to the heavy stuff, and make sure you have enough material that girls might really like to move to too :) Lastly.. maybe just throw out the whole idea of a techno only night, or an any one-type-of-genre night: if you're going to do that it should probably be a night of indie electro, disco punk or whatever is hot right now.

Great post, I agree.
More communication is what we really need at the bottom line.
And more discussions like this, where no maklice is intented, but, things are talked in straight lines rather than accomodating for ego ro brown nosing for points or whatever.
More talk between promoters.
More talk between promoters and acts.
More talk between Agents and Promoters.
etc
The lines of communication need to be opened more so a little more consensus can be made during these times.
A DJ dropping their fee for a smaller venue doesn`t mean they have to always drop their fee. Just make it clear that a bigger venue = bigger fee etc.

I didn`t start this topic to moan and bitch, as really, it has no direct effect on me per se, I just wanted to see ideas and communication as I know a lot of people effected.
Better we talk honestly in all areas than just turn into nodding yesmen.

[clubsynthetic]

Well, no-one is putting a gun to many of these promoters' heads forcing them to book an act. If in this climate they can't broker a good deal, then they either aren't doing their job well, or that artist just isn't worth booking.
Don't just blame the djs either. Behind every big, very well paid dj... is an agent :)

The business flights thing, paying to bring tour managers over etc. is horse shit for sure - although if you are Carl Cox or someone then that won't be a problem, he's gonna sell your club out, so there's no problem.
In techno at the moment, I think there are loads of people that are willing to cut a deal, while on another hand there are some that haven't accepted that they need to take a drop - like you mentioned DB. Then of course there are those who feel that by reducing their fee will depreciate their general value. Y'know it's catch 22 when you get into that area of things - for smaller scale gigs especially - if a promoter gets a dj for a bargain, he/she is likely to put in less effort promoting it because there is less on the line, and often the gig can be crap. Likewise, if a fee is dropped, word starts to spead about that with other promoters, which may not be a positive thing for the dj.

Where there's a bigger fee or costs on the table, you can be guaranteed that the promoter will be trying a lot more, which often leads to a better and more well attended gig. All of these things taken into consideration though, I think it's still safe to say that things are pretty ****ed at the moment! Nothing is a guarantee, other than a very select few names.. In terms of underground techno, I think there are problems related to the music too, and the fact that it isn't followed as closely by younger generations coming through at all.. We've had this conversation before, but nothing's changed since. 2004 was where it all started to change I think :(

It's time for more promoters to take risks though. All that can be achieved at this stage for many is to go for broke, and break in newer (or already established) inexpensive names. There's more to putting on gigs than firing a name or two on a poster, there are many ways to create or buzz around a gig if you have good ideas and the right people around you. One surefire way is to build up new unknown local djs to do warm up slots, that will bring their mates etc. (you need to choose wisely as well). If you are starting gigs to put on just you, your mates and a big name, then you could be making a fatal mistake.. you need to share the load, bring as much new support to the night, and then capitalise on that when you put on a big name. Then hopefully the helicopter rides, powder, champagne etc. for the guest won't be a problem to have to fork out on!

Any perspective techno night that think banging it out for a full night is going to be a success, should just give up now. The proof has been there for ages that these nights don't last, and that venues don't like it either. Build up to the heavy stuff, and make sure you have enough material that girls might really like to move to too :) Lastly.. maybe just throw out the whole idea of a techno only night, or an any one-type-of-genre night: if you're going to do that it should probably be a night of indie electro, disco punk or whatever is hot right now.

Thats a good point!

In other words promoters... TUFF TATTIES.

We all loose money as promoters, so get someone talented and cheap to start the cycle again..