Credit Crunch vs Arrogance of Big Names

[clubsynthetic]

Well, no-one is putting a gun to many of these promoters' heads forcing them to book an act. If in this climate they can't broker a good deal, then they either aren't doing their job well, or that artist just isn't worth booking.
Don't just blame the djs either. Behind every big, very well paid dj... is an agent :)

The business flights thing, paying to bring tour managers over etc. is horse shit for sure - although if you are Carl Cox or someone then that won't be a problem, he's gonna sell your club out, so there's no problem.
In techno at the moment, I think there are loads of people that are willing to cut a deal, while on another hand there are some that haven't accepted that they need to take a drop - like you mentioned DB. Then of course there are those who feel that by reducing their fee will depreciate their general value. Y'know it's catch 22 when you get into that area of things - for smaller scale gigs especially - if a promoter gets a dj for a bargain, he/she is likely to put in less effort promoting it because there is less on the line, and often the gig can be crap. Likewise, if a fee is dropped, word starts to spead about that with other promoters, which may not be a positive thing for the dj.

Where there's a bigger fee or costs on the table, you can be guaranteed that the promoter will be trying a lot more, which often leads to a better and more well attended gig. All of these things taken into consideration though, I think it's still safe to say that things are pretty ****ed at the moment! Nothing is a guarantee, other than a very select few names.. In terms of underground techno, I think there are problems related to the music too, and the fact that it isn't followed as closely by younger generations coming through at all.. We've had this conversation before, but nothing's changed since. 2004 was where it all started to change I think :(

It's time for more promoters to take risks though. All that can be achieved at this stage for many is to go for broke, and break in newer (or already established) inexpensive names. There's more to putting on gigs than firing a name or two on a poster, there are many ways to create or buzz around a gig if you have good ideas and the right people around you. One surefire way is to build up new unknown local djs to do warm up slots, that will bring their mates etc. (you need to choose wisely as well). If you are starting gigs to put on just you, your mates and a big name, then you could be making a fatal mistake.. you need to share the load, bring as much new support to the night, and then capitalise on that when you put on a big name. Then hopefully the helicopter rides, powder, champagne etc. for the guest won't be a problem to have to fork out on!

Any perspective techno night that think banging it out for a full night is going to be a success, should just give up now. The proof has been there for ages that these nights don't last, and that venues don't like it either. Build up to the heavy stuff, and make sure you have enough material that girls might really like to move to too :) Lastly.. maybe just throw out the whole idea of a techno only night, or an any one-type-of-genre night: if you're going to do that it should probably be a night of indie electro, disco punk or whatever is hot right now.

Thats a good point!

In other words promoters... TUFF TATTIES.

We all loose money as promoters, so get someone talented and cheap to start the cycle again..

[DarkYoung]

Thats a good point!

In other words promoters... TUFF TATTIES.

We all loose money as promoters, so get someone talented and cheap to start the cycle again..

i think the problem is that there is no real scene.
i know im well past it now. but there is no real scene everything is fragmented.
soemthing new and innovative needs to be born.
like disco, house, techno.
maybe through all the suffering the world is going through now, somewhere some movement will be born, because at the moment, everything imo is degenerating.

[The Overfiend]

antichrist is not so much a person as a principle, the principle which is actively opposed to God and which may well be thought of as incarnating itself in those in every generation who have seemed to be blatant opponents of God

[DarkYoung]

antichrist is not so much a person as a principle, the principle which is actively opposed to God and which may well be thought of as incarnating itself in those in every generation who have seemed to be blatant opponents of God

Freud called it the Thanos principle. The Death Instinct.
Satan El is the angel, god sends to test Job.
Satan is god's corrupt form here on this planet aswell u know.

[BloodStar]

I think the problem more often than not, in trying achieve what I'm saying, is that many promoters start too big (either with the size of venue or name), instead of starting smaller and more manageable, building it up more 'organically' for want of a better word.
Sure, "taking risks" is easy for me or anyone else to throw around... but while we're at this stage, and with so many emerging names willing and able to do gigs for not loads of money, maybe it's time to see this reflected in more lineups. The techno scene needs freshening up and this is one of the only ways to do it.

Even I agree this would be very refreshing for the scene that old guys start being slowly substituted by new upcoming talents. This could bring new fresh wind to things, but it will take time, tho. People will not start coming to club to hear unknown djs and acts, it will need some support from internet servers and media.

Then we are again on topic of taking risks and donating techno. Why donate it all the time???

One day, It must deffinitelly be succesful as old known techno names cant be gigging forever so no matter when the change comes, it will come, thats for sure. I hope we will not be too old when it comes, hehe.

[DarkYoung]

http://www.youtube.com/v/0dQo0fNaQx0

this is what young people think of your big techno names

[...Dave...]

i think the problem is that there is no real scene.
i know im well past it now. but there is no real scene everything is fragmented.
soemthing new and innovative needs to be born.
like disco, house, techno.
maybe through all the suffering the world is going through now, somewhere some movement will be born, because at the moment, everything imo is degenerating.

good point dude.

something will come of of this depression we are in at the moment for sure.

[lunatrick]

it's called dubstep isn't it?

[DarkYoung]

it's called dubstep isn't it?

no dude. i mean a movement. dubstep is hardly a movement like disco, house or techno is it?

[The Overfiend]

Freud called it the Thanos principle. The Death Instinct.
Satan El is the angel, god sends to test Job.
Satan is god's corrupt form here on this planet aswell u know.

By the beast, then, coming up out of the earth, he means the kingdom of Antichrist; and by the two horns he means him and the false prophet after him. And in speaking of “the horns being like a lamb,” he means that he will make himself like the Son of God, and set himself forward as king. And the terms, “he spake like a dragon,” mean that he is a deceiver, and not truthful.

So we are all guilty of carrying on this behaviour

[DarkYoung]

Genesis 20:12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father; but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

[drift9]

you guys are kind of freaking me out.

[The Overfiend]

"it is uncertain in what temple [the Antichrist] shall sit, whether in that ruin of the temple which was built by Solomon, or in the Church"

That's crazy.

[SlavikSvensk]

Thousands of years ago, these hunters found a backwater planet. They taught humans how to build, and were worshiped as gods. Every hundred years, the gods would return. And when they did, they would expect a sacrifice. Humans were used to breed the ultimate prey. The hunters would battle with these great serpents to prove themselves worthy to carry the mark. But if the hunters lost, they made sure nothing survived. An entire civilization wiped out overnight.

[gunjack]

no dude. i mean a movement. dubstep is hardly a movement like disco, house or techno is it?

WTF???? dubstep is EXACTLY like those movements... dubstep IS a movement that rose out of the ashes of garage and techno (!) the way techno rose from the ashes of p funk/industrial etc, the way that house came from the death of disco and the way disco came from the last days of fusion...

i mean i personally hate most typical "dubstep" tunes but there is no denying it is a valid musical movement and has opened many doors for producers like myself to reach more fans and take more musical risks...

[DarkYoung]

WTF???? dubstep is EXACTLY like those movements... dubstep IS a movement that rose out of the ashes of garage and techno (!) the way techno rose from the ashes of p funk/industrial etc, the way that house came from the death of disco and the way disco came from the last days of fusion...

i mean i personally hate most typical "dubstep" tunes but there is no denying it is a valid musical movement and has opened many doors for producers like myself to reach more fans and take more musical risks...

well obviously i'm missing something.

with dubstep being more underground than Josef Fritzl's basement.

i hardly think dubstep is the new disco or house movement.

[clubsynthetic]

scene this, scene that ;)

[clubsynthetic]

Its all in cyles likes. Sooner or later folk will become interested in the local stuff again. Because it's all going mad with money. People change, techno doesn't (maybe more intriqute but still the same genre). I feel there is techno thats just as brilliant as what was coming out when it was first derived :D

folk will cotton on i think and fresh things will happen/are happening.

Despite this post, i really find chatting about DJs expensive habits and fees like watching "a place in the sun" or some other ****ing shit we can never afford at a time like this.

For ****s sake if you have a club that gets a decent amount of folk in regularly book me cheap as **** and in the words of Arnie - "QUIT YOUR WHINING"

[gunjack]

well obviously i'm missing something.

with dubstep being more underground than Josef Fritzl's basement.

i hardly think dubstep is the new disco or house movement.

snoop dogg begs to differ. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iOp-C1hQ8k

[gunjack]

i think that tune is quite poor but you get the idea. i think "dubstep" is another vehicle for getting advanced production techniques into the forefront of music consumption, what could be wrong with that? thats what disco, techno and house were....