Credit Crunch vs Arrogance of Big Names

[The_Laughing_Man]

it's called dubstep isn't it?

dubstep reached it`s peak already.
It doesn`t have the energy to be any bigger.
I don`t think it contains any advanced techniques either.
The general level of production quality is quite high for a music that has so much fire in it`s belly, but I would hardly say the techniques are any more advanced than what is happening in any genre.
It`s just another sub genre of music.
I like it a lot, but it`s not some amazing new undiscovered jewel.

[gunjack]

dubstep reached it`s peak already.
It doesn`t have the energy to be any bigger.
I don`t think it contains any advanced techniques either.
The general level of production quality is quite high for a music that has so much fire in it`s belly, but I would hardly say the techniques are any more advanced than what is happening in any genre.
It`s just another sub genre of music.
I like it a lot, but it`s not some amazing new undiscovered jewel.

"dubstep", "brummy" techno etc has all lead us to the same fuking place.... MONGREL MUSIC. HYBRID MUSIC. music that doesn't depend on one subgenre or another... i had somebody call my new tunes "industrial break step" the other day and i had to tell him "for fuk's sake man,
can't we let go of these playground, pigeon-holing antics?" seriously i got to the DUBSTEP FORUMS and it is like blackout but blue instead of orange and the word "dubstep" replacing the word "techno".

it's quite absurd when you think about it..... saying "dubstep" is not a "musical movement" like "techno" etc is like saying French is not a language like English is a language.... just stupid, seperatist ideas that hold us all back. nobody is saying we should merge with psycho trance and donk etc but yea i think the social structure upon which we base the foundation for modern ideas has shown us, time and again that we as humans function better when we take a bit from here and a bit from there "cutting and pasting" the beneficial and avant gard bits from each "movement" in order to communicate more effectively...

[Numeric]

dubstep was ace back in the early naughties, before anyone had even coined the phrase

guys like zed bias, oris j and others, even miss dynamite had an ill diss track out back then which was heavy

long before any bored techno producers jumped on the band wagon :;

[gunjack]

dubstep was ace back in the early naughties, before anyone had even coined the phrase

guys like zed bias, oris j and others, even miss dynamite had an ill diss track out back then which was heavy

long before any bored techno producers jumped on the band wagon :;

i gotta say lot's of "dusbtep" for me is fuking boring too..... i like PINCH for example but i can't stand QUAWALLI or whatever that tune is called..... the idea is not that "bored techno producers" like myself have "jumped on t he bandwagon" because that implies, at least in my case that i just grabbed up some typical bass drop sounds and went to town.... this is simply not so..... what happened in my case is that the "off beat" and "dark techno" people DEMANDED i keep making (even though it bores the pants off me), was so similar to the "dubstep" that was reaching other audiences, that not selling my music to those people as well just seemed STUPID to say the least. now i have more than doubled my fan base in 1 year and am able to experiment A LOT more with drums and low frequencies. i still allign myself with techno folks like STORMFIELD and SCORN but i no longer have to be afraid of being called a "surgeon clone" or a "shcranz" producer by ignorants... because i am making music that could be called "techno" could be called "dubstep" could be called "industrial breakstep" etc etc etc etc


on the other side of the coin "funky" is just like deep house but with off beat "dubstep" style garage drums, 2562 and martyn, two of the biggest names in "dubstep" are making what i would call retro detroit techno and the dubstep kids are eating it up!!! so are we saying that these guys "jumped on the techno bandwagon"? i would say that folks are finally waking up and realizing that dub, techno, garage, breakbeat etc etc etc is all basically the same thing and a good tune is a good tune so WHY WASTE TIME DEBATING ON WHICH GENRE CAME FIRST OR WILL LAST LONGER???? music is entertainment and art all at the same time, so have fun and blow minds!!!! that is all that really matters....

[Numeric]

i gotta say lot's of "dusbtep" for me is fuking boring too..... i like PINCH for example but i can't stand QUAWALLI or whatever that tune is called..... the idea is not that "bored techno producers" like myself have "jumped on t he bandwagon" because that implies, at least in my case that i just grabbed up some typical bass drop sounds and went to town.... this is simply not so..... what happened in my case is that the "off beat" and "dark techno" people DEMANDED i keep making (even though it bores the pants off me), was so similar to the "dubstep" that was reaching other audiences, that not selling my music to those people as well just seemed STUPID to say the least. now i have more than doubled my fan base in 1 year and am able to experiment A LOT more with drums and low frequencies. i still allign myself with techno folks like STORMFIELD and SCORN but i no longer have to be afraid of being called a "surgeon clone" or a "shcranz" producer by ignorants... because i am making music that could be called "techno" could be called "dubstep" could be called "industrial breakstep" etc etc etc etc


on the other side of the coin "funky" is just like deep house but with off beat "dubstep" style garage drums, 2562 and martyn, two of the biggest names in "dubstep" are making what i would call retro detroit techno and the dubstep kids are eating it up!!! so are we saying that these guys "jumped on the techno bandwagon"? i would say that folks are finally waking up and realizing that dub, techno, garage, breakbeat etc etc etc is all basically the same thing and a good tune is a good tune so WHY WASTE TIME DEBATING ON WHICH GENRE CAME FIRST OR WILL LAST LONGER???? music is entertainment and art all at the same time, so have fun and blow minds!!!! that is all that really matters....

you don't have to explain yourself to me man, i was just joking :)

personally i'm not a massive fan of dubstep, but i can still appreciate it, whether it be dark or the more dance floor orientated stuff, a good tune is a good tune, as you say

[SlavikSvensk]

"dubstep", "brummy" techno etc has all lead us to the same fuking place.... MONGREL MUSIC. HYBRID MUSIC. music that doesn't depend on one subgenre or another... i had somebody call my new tunes "industrial break step" the other day and i had to tell him "for fuk's sake man,
can't we let go of these playground, pigeon-holing antics?" seriously i got to the DUBSTEP FORUMS and it is like blackout but blue instead of orange and the word "dubstep" replacing the word "techno".

it's quite absurd when you think about it..... saying "dubstep" is not a "musical movement" like "techno" etc is like saying French is not a language like English is a language.... just stupid, seperatist ideas that hold us all back. nobody is saying we should merge with psycho trance and donk etc but yea i think the social structure upon which we base the foundation for modern ideas has shown us, time and again that we as humans function better when we take a bit from here and a bit from there "cutting and pasting" the beneficial and avant gard bits from each "movement" in order to communicate more effectively...

i totally agree with you on the backwardness of over-categorization. but pretty sure steve does as well.

think the post you are quoting of his is saying that people who look at dubstep as a sort of revolution or sonic salvation are a bit misguided.

[The_Laughing_Man]

i totally agree with you on the backwardness of over-categorization. but pretty sure steve does as well.

think the post you are quoting of his is saying that people who look at dubstep as a sort of revolution or sonic salvation are a bit misguided.

Yeah I hate categories, but infortunately the general public is used to being spoon-fed and needs things placed neatly in boxes.

IF I had my way things would go back to the early 90`s rave ethic, in club terms, and the music wouldn`t be the same genre all night.
A mix of dance music from DJ to DJ is great, as long as the music is good.
Hell, even playing lots of different sub genres as a DJ, in one set, how novel, rather than playing a bunch of similar sounding stuff of the same bpms all together.

[davethedrummer]

anyone fancy a pint?

[DarkYoung]

anyone fancy a pint?

did you call my pint a puff?

[MARK ANXIOUS]

i thought i would give my take on this, cause i have sometimes been accused of having a high fee even since back in the day when i used to charge 50 quid for a set in huddersfield ;)

it's not arrogance. it's all to do with the way you're perceived. i think at first it's a real struggle to make any cash out of djing. tbh you don't care cause that's not the motivation AT ALL. but what you tend to find is once you've been in this game a while, and you get a bit of recognition, the 'order' of the dj's on the flyers tends to be the higher paid ones at the top and the lower paid ones at the bottom. there's simply no getting away from it. it's shit. it really is. but it's the way it is.

and i think agents and dj's catch onto this and set their prices according to where they percieve themselves to be in the general status quo. the promoters see it also as a benchmark to how 'big' the name is too. the more you pay for someone, the more you need the guy to be at the top of your flyer in big lights saying 'i'm a big dj please suck my cock harder than the other guy'. there's no malice in it. it's just what you have to do and it's a circle we CANNOT escape from (unless of course you're a free party promoter, in which case cocks are defo not suked hahaha).

take my perspective for example. it has taken alot of years (15/20!!) for chrissi to get my fee to where it is to a point where, sure a few promoters fall off their chairs, but the majority only fall off slightly but then gain composure and eventually we get the booking sorted. why?

there is the age old thing of NEGOTIATION you know. alot of dj's and agent set the benchmark fee a a 'this is what i think i'm worth' but are totally willing to negotiate for the underground clubs and the ppl that can't genuinely afford it. i think that's a huge problem with promoters who are just into this for the love of music - they don't realise the business side to it. if you're a promoter - NEGOTIATE!!!! dave clarke charges 5 grand for a set if you enquire but you can bet your bottom dollar that he doesnt get that for that small club in bristol that only holds 700 ppl. most dj's and agent WILL negotiate if you set your case out clearly, come across as professional and passionate, TRUST me. especially if the artist is a music person and not part of a hard house consortium where they dont give a shit. i will say no more. hahaha

so in conclusion, you can't really blame the dj's. you can't blame the promoters. it's just the way things are. and no matter how much we wish it wasn't, performance is a business IF you want to make a living out of it. if you DONT want to make a living out of and you have massive talent, i salute you massively, but i can assure you that once you get that first 50 quid in your pocket from a booking that enables you buy more music, better studio equipment a more confortable surrounding to make your music, then you're more than likely going to be in the trap of wondering how you're gonna get another 50 quid. sad but TRUE.

the real test though is can you achieve this without being greedy? join the hip hop scene and i think you might have a few problems. but the techno scene is gnerally music based. people in this scene give and take. and if they dont - move on and book someone else.

Just my 2 cents guys.

[The_Laughing_Man]

anyone fancy a pint?

What about some shots?

[judas_beast]

anyone fancy a pint?

stella please.

[The_Laughing_Man]

stella please.

Wifebeater?
You sick man
Might as well urinate into your own mouth

[gunjack]

dubstep reached it`s peak already.
It doesn`t have the energy to be any bigger.
I don`t think it contains any advanced techniques either.

sorry mate "dubstep" is still new to non-UK ears.... the energy to become bigger is now on a global scale, the uk may be saturated but spain, japan, brasil etc are just getting started and when all is said and done london is not the center of the world...."dubstep" is UK bass music that uses lot's of LFOs and low frequency manipulation to get it's point accross.... i would say that is a bit more advanced, production wise than the average "dark/hard techno" let's-trade-audio-loops-and-make-something-that-could-be-mistaken-for-a-90s-downwards-release mentality....... the idea is not to say "oh wow dubstep is the way forward" or "dubstep is an undiscovered gem" but to say ok, something has been happening musically called "dubstep", what can i learn from this "trend", what are the things that stay with me long after "dubstep" is gone? i mean i personally consider my newer works and that of bracket (RIP) and NOIZ etc to be TECHNO, but if the "dubstep" crowd "gets it" better.... there must be something behind that....


i remember when techno was a bunch of free thinkers trying to RACE forward to the next mind blowing, script flip of a tune, now it is like a bunch of retro cunts ignoring every new musical tendency and trying like hell to stay right where they are, on planet boring in the repitition galaxy just beyond the bury-your-head-in-the-sand-nebula haha


fuk techno. fuk dubstep. instead of following these "movements" we should be LEADING MOVEMENTS OF OUR OWN, not by inventing new genre names but by IGNORING THEM and experimenting as we always have, but without the fear of being labeled as one thing or another. let the distros, record stores and journalists worry about what is "techno" and what is "dubstep", that is their job!


let's get back to making music that is INTERESTING to the ears instead of atlking the music to death....