Credit Crunch vs Arrogance of Big Names

[DarkYoung]

Book of Wisdom - The Apocrypha
(The Wisdom of Solomon)


Wis 1:1. Love righteousness, ye that be judges of the earth: Think of the Lord with a good (heart,) and in simplicity of heart find him.

Wis 1:4. For into a malicous soul wisdom shall not enter; nor dwell in the body that is subject to sin.

Wis 1:13. For God made not death: neither hath he pleasure in the destruction of the living.

Wis 2:7. Let us fill ourselves with costly wine and ointments: and let no flower of the spring pass by us:

Wis 2:23. For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity.

Wis 2:24. Nevertheless through envy of the devil came death into the world: and they that do hold of his side do find it.

Wis 7:19. The circuits of the years, and the positions of the stars:

Wis 8:19. For i was a witty child, and had a good spirit.

Wis 8:20. Yea rather, being good, i came into a body undefiled.

[gunjack]

yea can we stop with the biblical shit please

[The_Laughing_Man]

it's called dubstep isn't it?

dubstep reached it`s peak already.
It doesn`t have the energy to be any bigger.
I don`t think it contains any advanced techniques either.
The general level of production quality is quite high for a music that has so much fire in it`s belly, but I would hardly say the techniques are any more advanced than what is happening in any genre.
It`s just another sub genre of music.
I like it a lot, but it`s not some amazing new undiscovered jewel.

[stjohn]

even with all the advanced production techniques?

[gunjack]

dubstep reached it`s peak already.
It doesn`t have the energy to be any bigger.
I don`t think it contains any advanced techniques either.
The general level of production quality is quite high for a music that has so much fire in it`s belly, but I would hardly say the techniques are any more advanced than what is happening in any genre.
It`s just another sub genre of music.
I like it a lot, but it`s not some amazing new undiscovered jewel.

"dubstep", "brummy" techno etc has all lead us to the same fuking place.... MONGREL MUSIC. HYBRID MUSIC. music that doesn't depend on one subgenre or another... i had somebody call my new tunes "industrial break step" the other day and i had to tell him "for fuk's sake man,
can't we let go of these playground, pigeon-holing antics?" seriously i got to the DUBSTEP FORUMS and it is like blackout but blue instead of orange and the word "dubstep" replacing the word "techno".

it's quite absurd when you think about it..... saying "dubstep" is not a "musical movement" like "techno" etc is like saying French is not a language like English is a language.... just stupid, seperatist ideas that hold us all back. nobody is saying we should merge with psycho trance and donk etc but yea i think the social structure upon which we base the foundation for modern ideas has shown us, time and again that we as humans function better when we take a bit from here and a bit from there "cutting and pasting" the beneficial and avant gard bits from each "movement" in order to communicate more effectively...

[Numeric]

dubstep was ace back in the early naughties, before anyone had even coined the phrase

guys like zed bias, oris j and others, even miss dynamite had an ill diss track out back then which was heavy

long before any bored techno producers jumped on the band wagon :;

[gunjack]

dubstep reached it`s peak already.
It doesn`t have the energy to be any bigger.
I don`t think it contains any advanced techniques either.

sorry mate "dubstep" is still new to non-UK ears.... the energy to become bigger is now on a global scale, the uk may be saturated but spain, japan, brasil etc are just getting started and when all is said and done london is not the center of the world...."dubstep" is UK bass music that uses lot's of LFOs and low frequency manipulation to get it's point accross.... i would say that is a bit more advanced, production wise than the average "dark/hard techno" let's-trade-audio-loops-and-make-something-that-could-be-mistaken-for-a-90s-downwards-release mentality....... the idea is not to say "oh wow dubstep is the way forward" or "dubstep is an undiscovered gem" but to say ok, something has been happening musically called "dubstep", what can i learn from this "trend", what are the things that stay with me long after "dubstep" is gone? i mean i personally consider my newer works and that of bracket (RIP) and NOIZ etc to be TECHNO, but if the "dubstep" crowd "gets it" better.... there must be something behind that....


i remember when techno was a bunch of free thinkers trying to RACE forward to the next mind blowing, script flip of a tune, now it is like a bunch of retro cunts ignoring every new musical tendency and trying like hell to stay right where they are, on planet boring in the repitition galaxy just beyond the bury-your-head-in-the-sand-nebula haha


fuk techno. fuk dubstep. instead of following these "movements" we should be LEADING MOVEMENTS OF OUR OWN, not by inventing new genre names but by IGNORING THEM and experimenting as we always have, but without the fear of being labeled as one thing or another. let the distros, record stores and journalists worry about what is "techno" and what is "dubstep", that is their job!


let's get back to making music that is INTERESTING to the ears instead of atlking the music to death....

[gunjack]

dubstep was ace back in the early naughties, before anyone had even coined the phrase

guys like zed bias, oris j and others, even miss dynamite had an ill diss track out back then which was heavy

long before any bored techno producers jumped on the band wagon :;

i gotta say lot's of "dusbtep" for me is fuking boring too..... i like PINCH for example but i can't stand QUAWALLI or whatever that tune is called..... the idea is not that "bored techno producers" like myself have "jumped on t he bandwagon" because that implies, at least in my case that i just grabbed up some typical bass drop sounds and went to town.... this is simply not so..... what happened in my case is that the "off beat" and "dark techno" people DEMANDED i keep making (even though it bores the pants off me), was so similar to the "dubstep" that was reaching other audiences, that not selling my music to those people as well just seemed STUPID to say the least. now i have more than doubled my fan base in 1 year and am able to experiment A LOT more with drums and low frequencies. i still allign myself with techno folks like STORMFIELD and SCORN but i no longer have to be afraid of being called a "surgeon clone" or a "shcranz" producer by ignorants... because i am making music that could be called "techno" could be called "dubstep" could be called "industrial breakstep" etc etc etc etc


on the other side of the coin "funky" is just like deep house but with off beat "dubstep" style garage drums, 2562 and martyn, two of the biggest names in "dubstep" are making what i would call retro detroit techno and the dubstep kids are eating it up!!! so are we saying that these guys "jumped on the techno bandwagon"? i would say that folks are finally waking up and realizing that dub, techno, garage, breakbeat etc etc etc is all basically the same thing and a good tune is a good tune so WHY WASTE TIME DEBATING ON WHICH GENRE CAME FIRST OR WILL LAST LONGER???? music is entertainment and art all at the same time, so have fun and blow minds!!!! that is all that really matters....

[Numeric]

i gotta say lot's of "dusbtep" for me is fuking boring too..... i like PINCH for example but i can't stand QUAWALLI or whatever that tune is called..... the idea is not that "bored techno producers" like myself have "jumped on t he bandwagon" because that implies, at least in my case that i just grabbed up some typical bass drop sounds and went to town.... this is simply not so..... what happened in my case is that the "off beat" and "dark techno" people DEMANDED i keep making (even though it bores the pants off me), was so similar to the "dubstep" that was reaching other audiences, that not selling my music to those people as well just seemed STUPID to say the least. now i have more than doubled my fan base in 1 year and am able to experiment A LOT more with drums and low frequencies. i still allign myself with techno folks like STORMFIELD and SCORN but i no longer have to be afraid of being called a "surgeon clone" or a "shcranz" producer by ignorants... because i am making music that could be called "techno" could be called "dubstep" could be called "industrial breakstep" etc etc etc etc


on the other side of the coin "funky" is just like deep house but with off beat "dubstep" style garage drums, 2562 and martyn, two of the biggest names in "dubstep" are making what i would call retro detroit techno and the dubstep kids are eating it up!!! so are we saying that these guys "jumped on the techno bandwagon"? i would say that folks are finally waking up and realizing that dub, techno, garage, breakbeat etc etc etc is all basically the same thing and a good tune is a good tune so WHY WASTE TIME DEBATING ON WHICH GENRE CAME FIRST OR WILL LAST LONGER???? music is entertainment and art all at the same time, so have fun and blow minds!!!! that is all that really matters....

you don't have to explain yourself to me man, i was just joking :)

personally i'm not a massive fan of dubstep, but i can still appreciate it, whether it be dark or the more dance floor orientated stuff, a good tune is a good tune, as you say

[gunjack]

**** "sheepstep" as mick says, got to do your thing and ignore the B.S.

[The Overfiend]

And I think you miss the entire point of this thread by focusing on what the DJ`s are earning.

I think you missed my point.
We can say it's not the artist it's the agent.
The agent's JOB is to make sure the artist and himself are paid.
Agent's are good because of shady promoters.
How many people on this very forum have travelled to some country they've never been to.
Or driven yay far from their houses to not be paid at the end of the night?
If we want to sit there and discuss making things better then maybe the title of the thread should be something along those lines.

I personally think everyone should do them, and try to reach the level of success of the people they criticize.
Strive to be better.
Strive to achieve.
Strive to add to the culture of techno by presenting your aural take on it.
Instead of trying so ****ing hard to hate on anyone else's accolades or merits'
If dj xyz makes 10g's on a booking you know what good for him, he's got an agent that's on their hustle! At the end of the day we all got to work and make money and feed our kids and keep our lifestyles up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQRbDSwZIME

"wtf he got 6 tv's for in there? it aint even 6 mutha****as in there."
dont ****in worry bout it raggedy bitch u need to figure out how to get that duck tape off yo tail lite and yo got damn business, its 2007 bitch"

[BloodStar]

Or driven yay far from their houses to not be paid at the end of the night?
If we want to sit there and discuss making things better then maybe the title of the thread should be something along those lines.

Here where I live, we call it deposit. Can we pay it if artist/agent does require it? Yes, we can.
Is usually agent asking for deposit? Not all the time.

As you said, agent is here for controlling the things to be safe for artists, no matter money or security wise, how come they are not asking for the deposit regularly, let say 50%???

Sry mate, but you are absolutly missing the point of this debate.

[The_Laughing_Man]

I think you missed my point.
We can say it's not the artist it's the agent.
The agent's JOB is to make sure the artist and himself are paid.
Agent's are good because of shady promoters.
How many people on this very forum have travelled to some country they've never been to.
Or driven yay far from their houses to not be paid at the end of the night?
If we want to sit there and discuss making things better then maybe the title of the thread should be something along those lines.

Agents won`t protect you from this, people with agents still don`t get paid.

What will protect you from this is investigation and a bit of Savvy.

Again you miss the point entirely by labeling any discussion, discourse or debate as "Hate".

Nobody is being hated here, it`s just straight talking.
You say techno is like a family?

Well, the one thing you can rely on with famly above all else, above friends, is honesty.
You may be king of the world but your mum can still cut you down to the ground and bring you down to earth with the truth, rather than telling you how great you are all the time.

As adults we should be able to cope with criticism and fair debate, and yes disagreement, in a civilised and adult way.
Anyone who can`t take it or cries and stamps their feet needs to go back to school.

There`s nothing wrong with big ups as well, but when you bleet like a sheep about how great everyone is all the time, it just becomes meaningless noise.
It`s all about contrasts, light means nothing without darkness.

Credit where credit is due, and criticism also.

[gunjack]

There`s nothing wrong with big ups as well, but when you bleet like a sheep about how great everyone is all the time, it just becomes meaningless noise.
It`s all about contrasts, light means nothing without darkness.

this

[The Overfiend]

Agents won`t protect you from this, people with agents still don`t get paid.

What will protect you from this is investigation and a bit of Savvy.

Again you miss the point entirely by labeling any discussion, discourse or debate as "Hate".

Nobody is being hated here, it`s just straight talking.
You say techno is like a family?

Well, the one thing you can rely on with famly above all else, above friends, is honesty.
You may be king of the world but your mum can still cut you down to the ground and bring you down to earth with the truth, rather than telling you how great you are all the time.

As adults we should be able to cope with criticism and fair debate, and yes disagreement, in a civilised and adult way.
Anyone who can`t take it or cries and stamps their feet needs to go back to school.

There`s nothing wrong with big ups as well, but when you bleet like a sheep about how great everyone is all the time, it just becomes meaningless noise.
It`s all about contrasts, light means nothing without darkness.

Credit where credit is due, and criticism also.

No one is biggin' up anyone Steve, all you are doing is taking my feedback and manipulating it into a character assasination. You started a thread criticising the "big name" prices. Now all of the sudden it's become the usual let's save techno thread with you on the horse screaming death to all who oppose. I will not let you discredit my stance with blatant insults trying to discredit what I am saying by telling me "I don't understand the point of the thread."

I don't big up anything unless it is impressive to me, I also don't worry about anyone else's finances unless it's f*ckin with my own.

Credit Crunch Vs Arrogance of Big Names
(Why don't you stay on topic then)

[SlavikSvensk]

"dubstep", "brummy" techno etc has all lead us to the same fuking place.... MONGREL MUSIC. HYBRID MUSIC. music that doesn't depend on one subgenre or another... i had somebody call my new tunes "industrial break step" the other day and i had to tell him "for fuk's sake man,
can't we let go of these playground, pigeon-holing antics?" seriously i got to the DUBSTEP FORUMS and it is like blackout but blue instead of orange and the word "dubstep" replacing the word "techno".

it's quite absurd when you think about it..... saying "dubstep" is not a "musical movement" like "techno" etc is like saying French is not a language like English is a language.... just stupid, seperatist ideas that hold us all back. nobody is saying we should merge with psycho trance and donk etc but yea i think the social structure upon which we base the foundation for modern ideas has shown us, time and again that we as humans function better when we take a bit from here and a bit from there "cutting and pasting" the beneficial and avant gard bits from each "movement" in order to communicate more effectively...

i totally agree with you on the backwardness of over-categorization. but pretty sure steve does as well.

think the post you are quoting of his is saying that people who look at dubstep as a sort of revolution or sonic salvation are a bit misguided.

[The_Laughing_Man]

No one is biggin' up anyone Steve, all you are doing is taking my feedback and manipulating it into a character assasination. You started a thread criticising the "big name" prices. Now all of the sudden it's become the usual let's save techno thread with you on the horse screaming death to all who oppose. I will not let you discredit my stance with blatant insults trying to discredit what I am saying by telling me "I don't understand the point of the thread."

I don't big up anything unless it is impressive to me, I also don't worry about anyone else's finances unless it's f*ckin with my own.

Credit Crunch Vs Arrogance of Big Names
(Why don't you stay on topic then)

Screw staying on topic, rules are there to be broken and conversations evolve, standpoints even change, as you are allowed to change your mind.

There`s no character assassination here, this isn`t about you.
It`s the colloquiel "you" I am using when I say things such as "There`s nothing wrong with big ups as well, but when you bleet like a sheep about how great everyone is all the time, it just becomes meaningless noise.
It`s all about contrasts, light means nothing without darkness"

You take offence much too quickly.

If you read my first post, it`s quite generic and not really attacking anyone in specific, nor does it point the finger at ALL big names.

Again you miss the point, as this isn`t so much worrying about the wages of the DJ`s, it`s more related to the promoters perspective.
Nor is this about saving techno, it is merely a discussion looking for solutions.
Rather than one word answers.

Looking at the big picture, and everyone involved (taking the soundsystems for example, I know a few sound hire firms going out of business, and also having to drop their fees, do the real hard sweaty work, and possibkly get less money when DJ Diva doesn`t pull in enough of a crowd but demands full fee, for example)

The point I am really trying to make is that the scene is more than the DJ`s.
Especially now, and Diva like behaviour is ugly.

I do worry about some peoples finances. Friends in the biz who have worked really really ****ing hard and are struggling. Not just DJ`s, the other people that also make things happen.
I worry about my friends and I try to help them.
A more considered approach from everyone will allow everyone to be fairly treated and still feed the kids/rent/pets/coke habit etc

Communication is everything, agree or disagree it doesn`t really matter, wrangling, praising, biting etc as long as it is handled with an adult brain and if possible, without ego, then there is no problem.

[The_Laughing_Man]

i totally agree with you on the backwardness of over-categorization. but pretty sure steve does as well.

think the post you are quoting of his is saying that people who look at dubstep as a sort of revolution or sonic salvation are a bit misguided.

Yeah I hate categories, but infortunately the general public is used to being spoon-fed and needs things placed neatly in boxes.

IF I had my way things would go back to the early 90`s rave ethic, in club terms, and the music wouldn`t be the same genre all night.
A mix of dance music from DJ to DJ is great, as long as the music is good.
Hell, even playing lots of different sub genres as a DJ, in one set, how novel, rather than playing a bunch of similar sounding stuff of the same bpms all together.

[davethedrummer]

anyone fancy a pint?

[DarkYoung]

anyone fancy a pint?

did you call my pint a puff?