Credit Crunch vs Arrogance of Big Names

[The_Laughing_Man]

anyone fancy a pint?

What about some shots?

[Darkmode]

I think you missed my point.
We can say it's not the artist it's the agent.
The agent's JOB is to make sure the artist and himself are paid.
Agent's are good because of shady promoters.
How many people on this very forum have travelled to some country they've never been to.
Or driven yay far from their houses to not be paid at the end of the night?
If we want to sit there and discuss making things better then maybe the title of the thread should be something along those lines.

I personally think everyone should do them, and try to reach the level of success of the people they criticize.
Strive to be better.
Strive to achieve.
Strive to add to the culture of techno by presenting your aural take on it.
Instead of trying so ****ing hard to hate on anyone else's accolades or merits'
If dj xyz makes 10g's on a booking you know what good for him, he's got an agent that's on their hustle! At the end of the day we all got to work and make money and feed our kids and keep our lifestyles up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQRbDSwZIME

"wtf he got 6 tv's for in there? it aint even 6 mutha****as in there."
dont ****in worry bout it raggedy bitch u need to figure out how to get that duck tape off yo tail lite and yo got damn business, its 2007 bitch"

I agree my friend it's pointless bitching & moaning about it as jelously gets people no where

it's good to see you have a postive frame of mind on the subject ;-)

[Igneous]

Looking at the big picture, and everyone involved (taking the soundsystems for example, I know a few sound hire firms going out of business, and also having to drop their fees, do the real hard sweaty work, and possibkly get less money when DJ Diva doesn`t pull in enough of a crowd but demands full fee, for example)

The point I am really trying to make is that the scene is more than the DJ`s.
Especially now, and Diva like behaviour is ugly.

I do worry about some peoples finances. Friends in the biz who have worked really really ****ing hard and are struggling. Not just DJ`s, the other people that also make things happen.
I worry about my friends and I try to help them.
A more considered approach from everyone will allow everyone to be fairly treated and still feed the kids/rent/pets/coke habit etc

Communication is everything, agree or disagree it doesn`t really matter, wrangling, praising, biting etc as long as it is handled with an adult brain and if possible, without ego, then there is no problem.

I hear what your saying to an extent. DJs are treated like pop stars these days. Techno isn't as bad as a lot of genres, but its worse than it used to be cause DJs rely on the money to pay morgauges etc, even underground scenes have had to become commercialised. Product of sucess.

Trouble is, when you look at life in general, with the old credit crunch & greedy banks, etc, nothing is fair on people who work really hard. Seems even techno is capitalist, lol. The dance music industy isn't very regulated so there isn't any guarenties of being paid. You could try & introduce a minimum & maximum wage based on skill for DJs but it would probley stiffle creativity & the DJs would be able to play the system one way or the other. So back to square 1.

I Quite like going to the odd free party now & again, where everything is put together without much money & it doesn't matter what DJs are playing for a change of vibe.

For the record, I think new nights shouldn't bother with big names. Just book locals & up & comings. The nights that last will have push these names forward to be big names. If that happens enough 'The scene' should continue on as normal.

[The_Laughing_Man]

I agree, I think new nights should keep it small and build up a fan base from the ground, rather than trying to "buy in" a fan base.
It`s not easy though.

It does seem to be happening though as a lot of smaller more underground nights seem to have sprung up around europe.

[curly]

I know I'm going back a few years now, but when I promoted in Southend names never made a difference to our attendance, but we were on a tight budget, the only clubs that would let us put on techno, or any dance music for that matter had a max capacity of 150-180 so there never was the money to pay big names,

We started small and very quickly build a very loyal fan base, we had some wicked party's, made some very good mates ones that i still see today. Is that not all part of the techno fun.

[The Overfiend]

Funny how people react to their demigods as opposed to their peers.

[The_Laughing_Man]

I know I'm going back a few years now, but when I promoted in Southend names never made a difference to our attendance, but we were on a tight budget, the only clubs that would let us put on techno, or any dance music for that matter had a max capacity of 150-180 so there never was the money to pay big names,

We started small and very quickly build a very loyal fan base, we had some wicked party's, made some very good mates ones that i still see today. Is that not all part of the techno fun.

Southend is a strange place to put on techno though mate.
I have no idea how you coped.
Flying the flag in that town was commendable, it has always been sharon and tracey land innit?
Could you imagine getting in jeff mills or someone for southend
The general opinion would be "who`s that cunt?"

[judas_beast]

anyone fancy a pint?

stella please.

[The_Laughing_Man]

stella please.

Wifebeater?
You sick man
Might as well urinate into your own mouth

[judas_beast]

Might as well urinate into your own mouth

I've tried Steve, but it's bloody difficult*

Do you have MSN, I wondered if you could give me some advice on updating a VERY old track I made, only have the mix down WAV, and want to bring some elements out?




*
i have found it you do a head stand, you can just about hit the ultimate mouth/piss combo

[The_Laughing_Man]

dirty blue records AT hotmail . com

[MARK ANXIOUS]

i thought i would give my take on this, cause i have sometimes been accused of having a high fee even since back in the day when i used to charge 50 quid for a set in huddersfield ;)

it's not arrogance. it's all to do with the way you're perceived. i think at first it's a real struggle to make any cash out of djing. tbh you don't care cause that's not the motivation AT ALL. but what you tend to find is once you've been in this game a while, and you get a bit of recognition, the 'order' of the dj's on the flyers tends to be the higher paid ones at the top and the lower paid ones at the bottom. there's simply no getting away from it. it's shit. it really is. but it's the way it is.

and i think agents and dj's catch onto this and set their prices according to where they percieve themselves to be in the general status quo. the promoters see it also as a benchmark to how 'big' the name is too. the more you pay for someone, the more you need the guy to be at the top of your flyer in big lights saying 'i'm a big dj please suck my cock harder than the other guy'. there's no malice in it. it's just what you have to do and it's a circle we CANNOT escape from (unless of course you're a free party promoter, in which case cocks are defo not suked hahaha).

take my perspective for example. it has taken alot of years (15/20!!) for chrissi to get my fee to where it is to a point where, sure a few promoters fall off their chairs, but the majority only fall off slightly but then gain composure and eventually we get the booking sorted. why?

there is the age old thing of NEGOTIATION you know. alot of dj's and agent set the benchmark fee a a 'this is what i think i'm worth' but are totally willing to negotiate for the underground clubs and the ppl that can't genuinely afford it. i think that's a huge problem with promoters who are just into this for the love of music - they don't realise the business side to it. if you're a promoter - NEGOTIATE!!!! dave clarke charges 5 grand for a set if you enquire but you can bet your bottom dollar that he doesnt get that for that small club in bristol that only holds 700 ppl. most dj's and agent WILL negotiate if you set your case out clearly, come across as professional and passionate, TRUST me. especially if the artist is a music person and not part of a hard house consortium where they dont give a shit. i will say no more. hahaha

so in conclusion, you can't really blame the dj's. you can't blame the promoters. it's just the way things are. and no matter how much we wish it wasn't, performance is a business IF you want to make a living out of it. if you DONT want to make a living out of and you have massive talent, i salute you massively, but i can assure you that once you get that first 50 quid in your pocket from a booking that enables you buy more music, better studio equipment a more confortable surrounding to make your music, then you're more than likely going to be in the trap of wondering how you're gonna get another 50 quid. sad but TRUE.

the real test though is can you achieve this without being greedy? join the hip hop scene and i think you might have a few problems. but the techno scene is gnerally music based. people in this scene give and take. and if they dont - move on and book someone else.

Just my 2 cents guys.

[DannyBlack]

i'll give you 50 quid to play at GRENADE mark. :lol:

[djfilthmonger]

i'll give you 50 quid to play at GRENADE mark. :lol:

that would class actually. Hey Mark ever play in Ireland?

[MARK ANXIOUS]

i've just come back from ireland. well, northern ireland actually. dublin i played once or twice over the years i think. either that or was it limerick?? god knows my memory is shit. i do remember one place they called it 'stab city' cause of a knife problem at the time and strangely enough i also remember getting a bottle thrown at me mid-mix. nice club that one hahahahahaha

[stjohn]

limerick lols

[Rog]

kind of the beat i guess, but i have never understood how so many 'dj's could get paid for playing other artists work? i do accept now, as opposed to the mid/late 90's way more 'dj's now produce music.

if i were running a night, i'd only look at P.A.'s or Ableton Sets - or the know 'dj's whom have built what they have to date.

high fee's will not get paid, clubs/promoters and alike will cancel nights - i would imagine that smaller venues (at reasonable prices) with artists whom produce will and want to expose the sound (so prob not 100% full time musicians) can take advantage?!

Those who survive by techno and alike.. must, like the rest of us in these times way up every option and be prepared to give, as well as take.

[clubsynthetic]

i thought i would give my take on this, cause i have sometimes been accused of having a high fee even since back in the day when i used to charge 50 quid for a set in huddersfield ;)

it's not arrogance. it's all to do with the way you're perceived. i think at first it's a real struggle to make any cash out of djing. tbh you don't care cause that's not the motivation AT ALL. but what you tend to find is once you've been in this game a while, and you get a bit of recognition, the 'order' of the dj's on the flyers tends to be the higher paid ones at the top and the lower paid ones at the bottom. there's simply no getting away from it. it's shit. it really is. but it's the way it is.

and i think agents and dj's catch onto this and set their prices according to where they percieve themselves to be in the general status quo. the promoters see it also as a benchmark to how 'big' the name is too. the more you pay for someone, the more you need the guy to be at the top of your flyer in big lights saying 'i'm a big dj please suck my cock harder than the other guy'. there's no malice in it. it's just what you have to do and it's a circle we CANNOT escape from (unless of course you're a free party promoter, in which case cocks are defo not suked hahaha).

take my perspective for example. it has taken alot of years (15/20!!) for chrissi to get my fee to where it is to a point where, sure a few promoters fall off their chairs, but the majority only fall off slightly but then gain composure and eventually we get the booking sorted. why?

there is the age old thing of NEGOTIATION you know. alot of dj's and agent set the benchmark fee a a 'this is what i think i'm worth' but are totally willing to negotiate for the underground clubs and the ppl that can't genuinely afford it. i think that's a huge problem with promoters who are just into this for the love of music - they don't realise the business side to it. if you're a promoter - NEGOTIATE!!!! dave clarke charges 5 grand for a set if you enquire but you can bet your bottom dollar that he doesnt get that for that small club in bristol that only holds 700 ppl. most dj's and agent WILL negotiate if you set your case out clearly, come across as professional and passionate, TRUST me. especially if the artist is a music person and not part of a hard house consortium where they dont give a shit. i will say no more. hahaha

so in conclusion, you can't really blame the dj's. you can't blame the promoters. it's just the way things are. and no matter how much we wish it wasn't, performance is a business IF you want to make a living out of it. if you DONT want to make a living out of and you have massive talent, i salute you massively, but i can assure you that once you get that first 50 quid in your pocket from a booking that enables you buy more music, better studio equipment a more confortable surrounding to make your music, then you're more than likely going to be in the trap of wondering how you're gonna get another 50 quid. sad but TRUE.

the real test though is can you achieve this without being greedy? join the hip hop scene and i think you might have a few problems. but the techno scene is gnerally music based. people in this scene give and take. and if they dont - move on and book someone else.

Just my 2 cents guys.

I see some points there.

I've offered fair deals and tried to compromise, but some dj have turned the club down point blank. which i find annoying...

but in hindsight all i think is that dispite dubstep bla bla bla bla bla all genres progress, so folk need to be local heros again and make high end djs work for thier supper. If you can't afford a DJ then look to other solutions as a promoter for high quality techno shizniz.

I'm not saying don't book a big DJ or anything,, just both promoters and djs need to comprise more for each other in general or they both gonna be ****ed sonner or later eh.

As long as you can spot cheap good talent yer rollin, like keeping a cycle going, keeping trends weaving and not stagnating into one corner of the genre market.

I had some of the best nigts when i went to a techno club and didn't know who was playing (or for that matter - what was happening :D ) and it didn't matter about a name or whether they were expensive or if they were black or white or yellow as long as they pumped they **** out of the club i was a happy chappy.

[nekro]

when i've booked djs in the past i've pretty much bi-passed any booking agents, if the dj expresses an interest in what i'm doing at my event then i'll pursue them - if not and they just say speak to my agent then i'm no longer interested in them.

i've always held events because of the passion i have for the music, because i've been a fan for so long i've managed to meet a lot of artists along the way and thus call in some favours.

[djfilthmonger]

i've just come back from ireland. well, northern ireland actually. dublin i played once or twice over the years i think. either that or was it limerick?? god knows my memory is shit. i do remember one place they called it 'stab city' cause of a knife problem at the time and strangely enough i also remember getting a bottle thrown at me mid-mix. nice club that one hahahahahaha

yeah stab city is limerick. it all about the guns these days.