What is techno, exactly?

[Technologic]

It`s refreshing to see that being said.
It would be nice if the music being made today reflected this.
Sadly there is too much emulation and not enough innovation.

I think the majority of stuff people would buy as Techno these days, is what techno was and has been for quite some time.
The new music that still does embrace the future, holding the techno ethic, is called something else now, as in terms of genre boxes, there are defined and accepted parameters for what techno is, if that makes sense.
So the music that has kept up and embraced new ideas is something else, even though personally I consider it techno.

Did that make sense?

Yeah I guess so. You could say that anything is techno providing that in it’s most primary stage it has that futurist element, it doesn’t matter what time signature it has or what, it just has to have a futuristic or science fiction theme…

On my second thoughts, i think the foundations of techno has a futurist element for sure, but techno has evolved, it’s taken influences from elsewhere… i mean, tribal techno is putting a modern twist on music that's been played for centuries and there’s a million and one other influences that producers adhere to, so I don’t think this is a rule exclusive to techno, but music in general.

Boy, this is deep...

[gunjack]

music that makes you say "what the fvck?"

[Jay Pace]

Stripped down dance music that tends to work around a 4/4 beat and isnt overly formulaic in structure, sounds or styles.

Although I always liked my dad's description of "peas rattling in a can"

[gunjack]

Stripped down dance music that tends to work around a 4/4 beat and isnt overly formulaic in structure, sounds or styles.

ummm yea apples and oranges that are sweet and juicy but aren't fruit.

[Jay Pace]

ok, I'll try again...

techno isn't not really defined by having a predictable structure - endless builds and drops (trance, D&B)

Its not defined by certain sounds - like pianos or ogans in house, arpeggiated synths in trance, reese basslines in D&B

It doesn't have one set style (acid, detroit, schranz, gabber)

So its more flexible than other genres, has less rules or conventions, more space for experimentation, wider use of sounds and greater use technology than other types of dance music.

About the only consistent thing I can find about techno is that its generally built around a 4/4 pattern

[gunjack]

meh 4x4 is all dance music not just 4/4 kick stuff even dubstep is 4/4 man you are talking about time sigs, as far as "more flexibe" that is entirely arguable as well, seriously... more space for experimentation??????? hardly mate... wha ppl call "techno" nowadays is pretty narrow....

[Jay Pace]

Loads of dance music is defined by having a 2step beat, whilst you can find D&B, dubstep, breaks etc thats 4x4 most of it isn't, whereas most of techno is.

And of the types of music that go down the 4x4 route, I think techno is the most experimental and has the least conventions. Which is why you get monolake and joey beltram producing music under the same genre. You don't get the same amount of variation in other genres.

Anyway, its all subjective but for me its about a lack of convention and lots of experimentation, built round a 4x4 beat.

So yah boo.

[The_Laughing_Man]

Loads of dance music is defined by having a 2step beat, whilst you can find D&B, dubstep, breaks etc thats 4x4 most of it isn't, whereas most of techno is.

And of the types of music that go down the 4x4 route, I think techno is the most experimental and has the least conventions. Which is why you get monolake and joey beltram producing music under the same genre. You don't get the same amount of variation in other genres.

Anyway, its all subjective but for me its about a lack of convention and lots of experimentation, built round a 4x4 beat.

So yah boo.

It`s very rare to find drum and bass, dubstep or breaks that isn`t 4x4 to be honest.
I`ve never heard any dubstep in 6/8 for example

I think you are talking 4 to the floor, and not the time signature of 4x4, which is pretty much all dance music across the board.

If it wasn`t, DJ`s wouldn`t play it.

As for most experimental, I would give that award to IDM, it really does have a much broader spectrum of techniques, time signatures, scales used, frequency bias, just about everything, compared to techno.

I truly truly would like to hear more experimentation in techno, and I am starting to now that I am exploring the digital world of music more thoroughly, but the state of the vinyl market and the way distributers dictate product, as well as fashion trends and wagon jumpers etc has left techno with little innovation overall.
That`s not to say good music isn`t being made. There is still plenty of good music, but it`s hardly innovative or experimental, not when compared to IDM, and even dubstep, to a point.

As for conventions, again, I think there are quite a few walls in techno keeping people penned in.
Too many DJ`s play stylistically monochromatically, and as a result it seems to have pushed producers, in general, to keep within the walls (albeit low walls) of their respective subgenres they are aiming for.

For example
You`ll rarely hear some uplifiting and melodic broken beat techno. It`s a genre that mostly goes for colder emotions.
I rarely hear Jazz instrumentation used in techno, except with some detroit and chigago stuff.

I can go on but I think it`s easy when you are so passionate about one type of music, that you can lose sight of what else is happening in other genres, and may think you are on the cutting edge, when in fact your on an old rusted blade.

Now before some goon pops up and says I`m being negative, I`m not at all.
Innovation and Experientation isn`t the be all and end all of what makes good techno, but we shoudln`t kid ourselves into thinking that techno is the most on edge super future music out there.
It doesn`t have to be for there to be good music, but it does allow a genre to evolve and develope, and therefore last.
I personally applaud growth, experimentation, and risk taking in music, but there is still some great techno music being made that is predictable, formulaic etc

I think part of the reason for a downturn of interest in techno may be down to a certain stagnation of ideas, and predictability.

People moan about minimal, but this is the evolution of the main current of techno, like it or not, this is what most people now call techno, as in punter, not producer.
To combat this, rather than moaning about it, people should be trying to make something new and different, rather than running back to the studio crying in a corner and then knocking out another hypercompressed collection of mashed up loops.

The problem with taking risks is that you might not succeed, and may have to try many ideas before you find something that works, and I think the trend is impatience and a need for immediate success, instant gratification without too much effort or thought.

I love it when I hear a DJ or a producer try something different, and I love it equally when it doesn`t work at all because at least you can feel that there is some soul in there trying to be itself.

[Jay Pace]

I think you are talking 4 to the floor, and not the time signature of 4x4, which is pretty much all dance music across the board.....As for most experimental, I would give that award to IDM, it really does have a much broader spectrum of techniques, time signatures, scales used, frequency bias, just about everything, compared to techno.

Tricky to dance to IDM though. Tends to empty out floors. Within the context of four to the floor, danceable electronic music techno i think techno is more experimental.

There's definitely something to say about the fact that techno music is still largely aimed at clubs. Its music to be danced to. Much as i love autechre and co. IDM doesn't really play the same sort of role.

[The_Laughing_Man]

Tricky to dance to IDM though. Tends to empty out floors. Within the context of four to the floor, danceable electronic music techno i think techno is more experimental.

There's definitely something to say about the fact that techno music is still largely aimed at clubs. Its music to be danced to. Much as i love autechre and co. IDM doesn't really play the same sort of role.

I think your wrong really.
Look at aphex twin bangin things to bits at Bloc
OR acts such as Lusine or Arrovane, utterly danceable, totally experimental.
There are many more acts, Autechre don`t really count for the majority, and in fact your assumption that all IDM is broken super staggered beat stuff like autechre shows your own pidgeon holing of a genre that is VAST in scope, in comparison to techno.

Even dubstep has pushed things in terms of experimentalism more than techno in the last few years, with really unconventional sounds and very very loose beat structure.

I`ve been bying a lot of minimal house recently, which is also showing more innovation and experimentation than techno currently.

I can`t really pick that much techno out, outside of minimal, that has been experimental or innovative for the last few years, bar a few exceptions.

Care to name a good majority of techno that is vaguely experimental and deviates from the techno norm that has been made in the last 4 years?

[Jay Pace]

I think your wrong really.
Look at aphex twin bangin things to bits at Bloc

The times I've seen AFX djing he's played what could only really be described as techno. Mental across the board techno, but still techno. Plus masses of his productions could happily be described as techno. Thats the term he uses anyway...

Other times I've seen him live its been amazing to listen to, but apart from mad little bursts it was more of a concert than a rave. Different vibe, different intent.

in fact your assumption that all IDM is broken super staggered beat stuff like autechre shows your own pidgeon holing of a genre that is VAST in scope, in comparison to techno.

Hang on, what assumption? Like you said all this is subjective. IDM evidently means something different to me than it does to you. I get a different attitude and vibe from music generally considered IDM. It serves a different purpose.

Care to name a good majority of techno that is vaguely experimental and deviates from the techno norm that has been made in the last 4 years?

Why the four year limit? Since the term techno has been bandied about, we've seen everything from london acid to dub techno evolve from the same roots. Sven Wittekind makes ears bleed and Sleep Archive write lullabies. How did that happen if there's no experimentation? If nobody is pushing anything in new and different directions, how come there's so much variation?

[gunjack]

yea man thank you i did not have time to school them hahaha

[SlavikSvensk]

IDM is sort of a residual category, isn't it? the electronic music that doesn't fit into the other easy-to-define genres? or is it a specific sound with specific rules or markers?

seems to vacillate between those poles, as i see it. but i think jay's point is valid to an extent...for many practitioners, the point of IDM is that it is self-consciously "brain music" and not necessarily self-consciously "dance music." by "brain music," i guess i mean music that is designed to be listened to and appreciated on its own merits, not meant specifically for a dance floor and not necessarily meant to be DJed. "dance music," then, would be music composed specifically for people to dance to and to be DJed. techno, as i see it, is almost always self-consciously "dance music" and only sometimes self-consciously "brain-music."

[note: you can argue techno is always "brain music." i'm just saying that a lot of techno producers think of their music as "for the dancefloor" rather than "for the living room or ipod]

[SlavikSvensk]

you could argue that variation is "institutional legacy" of previously established norms and categories.

...wait, this isn't the metropolis... :;

[Ritzi Lee]

Techno music is based on concepts, ideas and human imagination.

[DannyBlack]

Techno to me is something I love, something I can have fun with. The soundrack to my life.

[Jay Pace]

At the same time, things are being done differently now though. The hard techno people switching to a different sound brought new things to that sound. A lot more energy for starters, different structures being used, different types of sounds. Something different did get created, although its obvious which artists were influential in defining that sound.

Melodic techno, sure, nothing new there but there's great music being made with a different approach by artists with different backgrounds. Babicz stuff these days bears little relation to mentalist rob acid tracks from a decade back, but thats not to say he isn't bringing something new and special to the sound.

It's the old adage that there are no truly new ideas, only new combinations of old ideas. I think lots of producers are trying new things, and whilst that maybe only be "new for them" instead of "never been heard by human ears" it still means that you get a fair amount of variety within techno. I really like the fact that techno seems to try out new things, even if trying new things out means borrowing from other genres or trying on different hats at least it shows a desire to experiment, instead of a commitment to staying put.

[Technologic]

At the same time, things are being done differently now though. The hard techno people switching to a different sound brought new things to that sound. A lot more energy for starters, different structures being used, different types of sounds. Something different did get created, although its obvious which artists were influential in defining that sound.

Melodic techno, sure, nothing new there but there's great music being made with a different approach by artists with different backgrounds. Babicz stuff these days bears little relation to mentalist rob acid tracks from a decade back, but thats not to say he isn't bringing something new and special to the sound.

It's the old adage that there are no truly new ideas, only new combinations of old ideas. I think lots of producers are trying new things, and whilst that maybe only be "new for them" instead of "never been heard by human ears" it still means that you get a fair amount of variety within techno. I really like the fact that techno seems to try out new things, even if trying new things out means borrowing from other genres or trying on different hats at least it shows a desire to experiment, instead of a commitment to staying put.

From what i've gathered, techno ranges from the down right filthy dirty to the complete and utter pretentious, and then goes through just about anything a producer might take influence from, all whilst engineering new sounds with new technology. It is music for everyone really and fits into our class system at all levels, it's just a shame that not everyone sees it like this, then again, maybe not...

[The_Laughing_Man]

And nothing you say isn`t happening in any other genre though.

House has many variations and guises, most of the major dance genres are the same in fact.

So I still say techno is no more experimental or no less predicable than any other dance genre once you investigate.

[Technologic]

And nothing you say isn`t happening in any other genre though.

House has many variations and guises, most of the major dance genres are the same in fact.

So I still say techno is no more experimental or no less predicable than any other dance genre once you investigate.

If techno was experimental it'd be called experimental and not techno. Although a lot of techno derived from experimental so i guess that's where the confusion lies.