What is techno, exactly?

[gunjack]

music that makes you say "what the fvck?"

[Jay Pace]

Stripped down dance music that tends to work around a 4/4 beat and isnt overly formulaic in structure, sounds or styles.

Although I always liked my dad's description of "peas rattling in a can"

[gunjack]

Stripped down dance music that tends to work around a 4/4 beat and isnt overly formulaic in structure, sounds or styles.

ummm yea apples and oranges that are sweet and juicy but aren't fruit.

[Jay Pace]

ok, I'll try again...

techno isn't not really defined by having a predictable structure - endless builds and drops (trance, D&B)

Its not defined by certain sounds - like pianos or ogans in house, arpeggiated synths in trance, reese basslines in D&B

It doesn't have one set style (acid, detroit, schranz, gabber)

So its more flexible than other genres, has less rules or conventions, more space for experimentation, wider use of sounds and greater use technology than other types of dance music.

About the only consistent thing I can find about techno is that its generally built around a 4/4 pattern

[gunjack]

meh 4x4 is all dance music not just 4/4 kick stuff even dubstep is 4/4 man you are talking about time sigs, as far as "more flexibe" that is entirely arguable as well, seriously... more space for experimentation??????? hardly mate... wha ppl call "techno" nowadays is pretty narrow....

[Jay Pace]

Loads of dance music is defined by having a 2step beat, whilst you can find D&B, dubstep, breaks etc thats 4x4 most of it isn't, whereas most of techno is.

And of the types of music that go down the 4x4 route, I think techno is the most experimental and has the least conventions. Which is why you get monolake and joey beltram producing music under the same genre. You don't get the same amount of variation in other genres.

Anyway, its all subjective but for me its about a lack of convention and lots of experimentation, built round a 4x4 beat.

So yah boo.

[The_Laughing_Man]

Loads of dance music is defined by having a 2step beat, whilst you can find D&B, dubstep, breaks etc thats 4x4 most of it isn't, whereas most of techno is.

And of the types of music that go down the 4x4 route, I think techno is the most experimental and has the least conventions. Which is why you get monolake and joey beltram producing music under the same genre. You don't get the same amount of variation in other genres.

Anyway, its all subjective but for me its about a lack of convention and lots of experimentation, built round a 4x4 beat.

So yah boo.

It`s very rare to find drum and bass, dubstep or breaks that isn`t 4x4 to be honest.
I`ve never heard any dubstep in 6/8 for example

I think you are talking 4 to the floor, and not the time signature of 4x4, which is pretty much all dance music across the board.

If it wasn`t, DJ`s wouldn`t play it.

As for most experimental, I would give that award to IDM, it really does have a much broader spectrum of techniques, time signatures, scales used, frequency bias, just about everything, compared to techno.

I truly truly would like to hear more experimentation in techno, and I am starting to now that I am exploring the digital world of music more thoroughly, but the state of the vinyl market and the way distributers dictate product, as well as fashion trends and wagon jumpers etc has left techno with little innovation overall.
That`s not to say good music isn`t being made. There is still plenty of good music, but it`s hardly innovative or experimental, not when compared to IDM, and even dubstep, to a point.

As for conventions, again, I think there are quite a few walls in techno keeping people penned in.
Too many DJ`s play stylistically monochromatically, and as a result it seems to have pushed producers, in general, to keep within the walls (albeit low walls) of their respective subgenres they are aiming for.

For example
You`ll rarely hear some uplifiting and melodic broken beat techno. It`s a genre that mostly goes for colder emotions.
I rarely hear Jazz instrumentation used in techno, except with some detroit and chigago stuff.

I can go on but I think it`s easy when you are so passionate about one type of music, that you can lose sight of what else is happening in other genres, and may think you are on the cutting edge, when in fact your on an old rusted blade.

Now before some goon pops up and says I`m being negative, I`m not at all.
Innovation and Experientation isn`t the be all and end all of what makes good techno, but we shoudln`t kid ourselves into thinking that techno is the most on edge super future music out there.
It doesn`t have to be for there to be good music, but it does allow a genre to evolve and develope, and therefore last.
I personally applaud growth, experimentation, and risk taking in music, but there is still some great techno music being made that is predictable, formulaic etc

I think part of the reason for a downturn of interest in techno may be down to a certain stagnation of ideas, and predictability.

People moan about minimal, but this is the evolution of the main current of techno, like it or not, this is what most people now call techno, as in punter, not producer.
To combat this, rather than moaning about it, people should be trying to make something new and different, rather than running back to the studio crying in a corner and then knocking out another hypercompressed collection of mashed up loops.

The problem with taking risks is that you might not succeed, and may have to try many ideas before you find something that works, and I think the trend is impatience and a need for immediate success, instant gratification without too much effort or thought.

I love it when I hear a DJ or a producer try something different, and I love it equally when it doesn`t work at all because at least you can feel that there is some soul in there trying to be itself.

[gunjack]

yea man thank you i did not have time to school them hahaha

[Jay Pace]

I think you are talking 4 to the floor, and not the time signature of 4x4, which is pretty much all dance music across the board.....As for most experimental, I would give that award to IDM, it really does have a much broader spectrum of techniques, time signatures, scales used, frequency bias, just about everything, compared to techno.

Tricky to dance to IDM though. Tends to empty out floors. Within the context of four to the floor, danceable electronic music techno i think techno is more experimental.

There's definitely something to say about the fact that techno music is still largely aimed at clubs. Its music to be danced to. Much as i love autechre and co. IDM doesn't really play the same sort of role.

[The_Laughing_Man]

Tricky to dance to IDM though. Tends to empty out floors. Within the context of four to the floor, danceable electronic music techno i think techno is more experimental.

There's definitely something to say about the fact that techno music is still largely aimed at clubs. Its music to be danced to. Much as i love autechre and co. IDM doesn't really play the same sort of role.

I think your wrong really.
Look at aphex twin bangin things to bits at Bloc
OR acts such as Lusine or Arrovane, utterly danceable, totally experimental.
There are many more acts, Autechre don`t really count for the majority, and in fact your assumption that all IDM is broken super staggered beat stuff like autechre shows your own pidgeon holing of a genre that is VAST in scope, in comparison to techno.

Even dubstep has pushed things in terms of experimentalism more than techno in the last few years, with really unconventional sounds and very very loose beat structure.

I`ve been bying a lot of minimal house recently, which is also showing more innovation and experimentation than techno currently.

I can`t really pick that much techno out, outside of minimal, that has been experimental or innovative for the last few years, bar a few exceptions.

Care to name a good majority of techno that is vaguely experimental and deviates from the techno norm that has been made in the last 4 years?

[SlavikSvensk]

IDM is sort of a residual category, isn't it? the electronic music that doesn't fit into the other easy-to-define genres? or is it a specific sound with specific rules or markers?

seems to vacillate between those poles, as i see it. but i think jay's point is valid to an extent...for many practitioners, the point of IDM is that it is self-consciously "brain music" and not necessarily self-consciously "dance music." by "brain music," i guess i mean music that is designed to be listened to and appreciated on its own merits, not meant specifically for a dance floor and not necessarily meant to be DJed. "dance music," then, would be music composed specifically for people to dance to and to be DJed. techno, as i see it, is almost always self-consciously "dance music" and only sometimes self-consciously "brain-music."

[note: you can argue techno is always "brain music." i'm just saying that a lot of techno producers think of their music as "for the dancefloor" rather than "for the living room or ipod]

[Jay Pace]

I think your wrong really.
Look at aphex twin bangin things to bits at Bloc

The times I've seen AFX djing he's played what could only really be described as techno. Mental across the board techno, but still techno. Plus masses of his productions could happily be described as techno. Thats the term he uses anyway...

Other times I've seen him live its been amazing to listen to, but apart from mad little bursts it was more of a concert than a rave. Different vibe, different intent.

in fact your assumption that all IDM is broken super staggered beat stuff like autechre shows your own pidgeon holing of a genre that is VAST in scope, in comparison to techno.

Hang on, what assumption? Like you said all this is subjective. IDM evidently means something different to me than it does to you. I get a different attitude and vibe from music generally considered IDM. It serves a different purpose.

Care to name a good majority of techno that is vaguely experimental and deviates from the techno norm that has been made in the last 4 years?

Why the four year limit? Since the term techno has been bandied about, we've seen everything from london acid to dub techno evolve from the same roots. Sven Wittekind makes ears bleed and Sleep Archive write lullabies. How did that happen if there's no experimentation? If nobody is pushing anything in new and different directions, how come there's so much variation?

[SlavikSvensk]

you could argue that variation is "institutional legacy" of previously established norms and categories.

...wait, this isn't the metropolis... :;

[The_Laughing_Man]

Why the four year limit? Since the term techno has been bandied about, we've seen everything from london acid to dub techno evolve from the same roots. Sven Wittekind makes ears bleed and Sleep Archive write lullabies. How did that happen if there's no experimentation? If nobody is pushing anything in new and different directions, how come there's so much variation?

When was the last new movement?
Schranze originated in about 99.
Sleep archive can be traced directly to Basic Channel, a sound and technique about 10 years old now?
What, if anything, new has happened in the last 4 years? I would even say 6 years really.

We aren`t talking about the past we are talking about now, there is very little experimentation NOW, and nor has there been for ages.

What WAS experimental music isn`t so much now. That is my point.

If we are talking music since the beginning of time then all music WAS experimental at some time. And still that pushes techno out of being the most experimental dance music.

You see my point now?

It doesn`t matter, good music is atill being made, but when people harp on about techno being so experimental, alarm bells begin ringing for me of narrow vision.

[DarkYoung]

sound of the underground innit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V24BB...eature=related

[Technologic]

It`s refreshing to see that being said.
It would be nice if the music being made today reflected this.
Sadly there is too much emulation and not enough innovation.

I think the majority of stuff people would buy as Techno these days, is what techno was and has been for quite some time.
The new music that still does embrace the future, holding the techno ethic, is called something else now, as in terms of genre boxes, there are defined and accepted parameters for what techno is, if that makes sense.
So the music that has kept up and embraced new ideas is something else, even though personally I consider it techno.

Did that make sense?

Yeah I guess so. You could say that anything is techno providing that in it’s most primary stage it has that futurist element, it doesn’t matter what time signature it has or what, it just has to have a futuristic or science fiction theme…

On my second thoughts, i think the foundations of techno has a futurist element for sure, but techno has evolved, it’s taken influences from elsewhere… i mean, tribal techno is putting a modern twist on music that's been played for centuries and there’s a million and one other influences that producers adhere to, so I don’t think this is a rule exclusive to techno, but music in general.

Boy, this is deep...

[Ritzi Lee]

Techno music is based on concepts, ideas and human imagination.

[jon connor]

sound of the underground innit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V24BB...eature=related

yea i wouldent mind seeing Sheryl cole under dressed WOW! FORGET THE OTHERS THERE CRAP BUT WE FORGIVE SHERYL MY GOD A FANCY THAT WOMEN I WOULD ABSOLUTLY GIVE HER A GOOD BLOODY HIDING PHEWWW! IM ALL HOT NOW WHY DID YOU MENTINON THIS HAHAHAHAHA

[Technologic]

When was the last new movement?
Schranze originated in about 99.
Sleep archive can be traced directly to Basic Channel, a sound and technique about 10 years old now?
What, if anything, new has happened in the last 4 years? I would even say 6 years really.

We aren`t talking about the past we are talking about now, there is very little experimentation NOW, and nor has there been for ages.

What WAS experimental music isn`t so much now. That is my point.

If we are talking music since the beginning of time then all music WAS experimental at some time. And still that pushes techno out of being the most experimental dance music.

You see my point now?

It doesn`t matter, good music is atill being made, but when people harp on about techno being so experimental, alarm bells begin ringing for me of narrow vision.

Yeah, i see where you're coming from, but when you do listen to the original shiznee like Digeridoo or Spastik (for eg) then it was certainly groundbreaking stuff which laid many of the foundations for what we now know as techno.

You have got me thinking about anything new and exciting that's been done recently, maybe not the music structure and characteristics, but certainly the formats, software and hardware has developed a hell of a lot, paving ways for groundbreaking sounds, techniques and tricks that are can be hard to comprehend at first listening, and i think techno is often about embracing the new technologies rather than solely trying to create that innovative masterpiece for the masses.

[Jay Pace]

What WAS experimental music isn`t so much now. That is my point.

Plenty of hard techno producers are now making music described as minimal. For Adam Beyer to change style from the king of grungy loops to uber polished shuffle funk required a fair bit of experimentation on his part. Thats mainly happened in the last 5 years or so.

Fair enough, new ground isn't being broken on a daily basis, and the whole new minimal movement isn't particularly innovative given that hawtin can claim to be on the cutting edge, and still play all his old plastikman tracks alongside the newest stuff around and most people won't notice the difference.

In terms of shifts and movements there's stuff still happening, but its more subtle I suppose. I love the really polished carl craig sound, and the mix of melodic elements that falls somewhere between house and techno. That sound is new and different, even if it isn't exactly groundbreaking of innovative. It does show evolution though, and experimentation on the part of the artists. People aren't making music which conforms rigidly to a set of rules, in order for it to sound like "techno" and not something else. Well, thats my take on it anyway.