Drums / Kicks / Clean Sound

[tekboi]

Awesome guys, thank you & a good start for me, I didnt think

for really big kicks youneed to be layering samples on top of each other. sometimes i layer 3 or 4. all picked out for their own specific purposes, ie: i like the mid in one, the sub in another.

to make a kick cut thru the low end on a mix you need to be eqing properly. leaving room in the bass for the kick to sit etc. you also need to compress properly and not just for the sake of compressing.

another little trick is to add a touch of overdrive to the higher frequencies but leave the lower and sub frequencies untouched. the sparkle on top helps the attack push thru but the clean subs keep the weight intact.

Thanks heaps rhythmtech, I will try layering a couple of different types of kicks to try get the sound I want. I honestly thought the more similar sounds you layer, such as kicks, the more distorted the sound will appear, I guess its all about the way you layer & mould it as one, I will give it a try & let you know how I go, respect.

Half of the job is building the sort of kick sound.
The other half of this is shaping your mix right, so the kick fits properly.

If there are overlaps in frequency ranges your kick will end up muted and muddy, you need to carefully sculpt your mix so that it kicks and thumps in the way you want it to. You could have a perfect kick, but a lousy mix will swallow it whole. Or you could have a perfectly balanced mix with a kick that doesn't fit in it.

Its not easy unfortunately.

As for your mixes not sounding loud - there are a zillion tricks to bring up mix volume, mastering is one of them but really you have to learn how to build load mixes, and balance your mix across the frequency range and stereo space. This is also not easy.

The perceived loudness of your track and the way the kick fits are two of the more dominating themes of techno these days. No easy answers really, just got to experiment and learn as you go.

Thanks Jay! With getting my mix sounding louder through the EQing & compressor part of this process, can you please tell me how much is involved regarding the redlining on the master level in Ableton?? Do you have to stay away from the red, keeping it only at green?? Even though the mix doesnt sound loud? I can only assume once I redline, I am hitting a level of distortion, is that this correct?

To get a fat bOOOOOoomph kind of a sound I layer two kicks- High end and low end and then EQ them through the same channel til I get the right sound.

Thanks Danny, I will give this a try today & let you know how I go.

EVERYONE:

I dont necessarily want a really fat kick, chunky or punchy, just want it to have a nice clean stab but what concerns me is the kicks that appeal have a low end finish, such as sub bass styled finish to the kick hit, if you know what I mean, how can compress that kick, just to punch & have no low end frequencies at all, which I would prefer, so that I can build my mix & add sub bass or melodies etc does this make sense or?

Sorry for all of these questions guys, much respect & hope you can help, 2010 is really only dedicated for me to start a road to production, it really is all I want to do, thanks again, you guys rock beyond words, ciao!

[Jay Pace]

Thanks Jay! With getting my mix sounding louder through the EQing & compressor part of this process, can you please tell me how much is involved regarding the redlining on the master level in Ableton?? Do you have to stay away from the red, keeping it only at green?? Even though the mix doesnt sound loud? I can only assume once I redline, I am hitting a level of distortion, is that this correct?

The moment you go into the red, you are clipping the mix, and when it finally comes to mixing down into an audio file, all the times when the mix goes red will turn into a horrible squarewave distortion.

The trick with kicks is for them to punch in all the right places. That means they need top end click for them to cut through the mix, a bit of mid range smack to make them fit with other percussive elements and then a good bit of sub thump to drive the track along.

There's plenty of ways to create kicks with little to no sub bass. You could eq it down, or just filter it out altogether. Barry's suggestion to use lots of layers of kicks is great - because you can built the kicks in parts - top, middle and bottom depending on what your mix is doing.

A kick will sound perceptually louder if it has more high end energy, but that will be lost when its "felt" on the dancefloor as it won't have any bass smack. You also need to think about where you want the track to be heard. Kicks are hugely important because people dance to them. Sounds obvious, but if your kick gets lost in your mix, or doesn't have energy in the right places it will sound weak and undanceable over a big system, that treats frequency energy differently to headphones or studio monitors.

Try and build you mix as loud as you can without any clipping. Then once you've done that, you can apply a very gentle amount of compression or limiting to raise the overall track volume. But one you start doing this, you'll change the character of the mix. Mastering is a dark and complex art, and generally best left to people who understand the ins and outs of it all.

Focus on get your mix as tight as possible (loud with no red lights) and when you feel you can't go any further, get someone pro to master it. You will never get a "pro" sound by yourself if you're relatively new to production, its just too complex and difficult to achieve without comprehensive understanding of all the tools available and well trained ears.