Should you give your music away ?

[clubsynthetic]

So we all think it should all be free. Give me your music NOW! haha

[The_Laughing_Man]

Exactly.
IF music should be free then why not everything else.
Why pay for shoes, or groceries or anything that some amount of work has been done to produce.
To be really good at music and production takes a lot of time and hard work.
It`s not something you can do in the evening as a little hobby if you are serious about it.
I think a balance between giving stuff out for the fans and also keeping some stuff for purchase or donation is better.
Otherwise everything becomes devalued.
It`s such a complicated situation though, a simple answer isn`t possible.
These are very very frustrating times, but digital media is still young, and I think piracy protection is going to become stronger (for good or for bad) and we will see an end to piracy, on the scale it is at now anyway.
It`s a case of riding out the rough weather maybe.
Personally I have found another way doing what I enjoy in music to pay the rent, which has freed me up to release music that would have been more risky. And I can be more self indulgent (and pretentious) in what music I put out there.

**** knows basically. Do what you need to do to survive, but also, Never give up, never lose hope, never compromise and never sell out.
Impossible ey?

[Microdot]

Exactly.
IF music should be free then why not everything else.
Why pay for shoes, or groceries or anything that some amount of work has been done to produce.
To be really good at music and production takes a lot of time and hard work.
It`s not something you can do in the evening as a little hobby if you are serious about it.
I think a balance between giving stuff out for the fans and also keeping some stuff for purchase or donation is better.
Otherwise everything becomes devalued.

Nail on the fcuking head mate.

Until we completely break down the structures of capitalist culture and rebuild our entire society based on some kind of Anarchist/Communist utopia, we can't afford to devalue our profession/contribution to society by giving our music away for free.
Entertainment is an important part of society as sre Blacksmiths, Greengrocers, Mechanics, Engineers etc.
None of these other dudes are expected to work for free, or are even considering it as a way of combating an economic downturn.

My heart truly bleeds for folk who are struggling to get their music heard but, if truth be told, they are in no worse situation than struggling artists of the previous few decades.

[crime]

Nail on the fcuking head mate.

Until we completely break down the structures of capitalist culture and rebuild our entire society based on some kind of Anarchist/Communist utopia, we can't afford to devalue our profession/contribution to society by giving our music away for free.
Entertainment is an important part of society as sre Blacksmiths, Greengrocers, Mechanics, Engineers etc.
None of these other dudes are expected to work for free, or are even considering it as a way of combating an economic downturn.

My heart truly bleeds for folk who are struggling to get their music heard but, if truth be told, they are in no worse situation than struggling artists of the previous few decades.

The point here though is not about giving everything away for free - of course, if you played live for free, DJed for free, yes, that would devalue the whole thing. Comparing trades like Engineering, Retail and the like and Performing arts is like comparing apples and oranges - people don't need music to live in the same way that people need food & their drains fixed - it's just that now, with so many other people giving their self made music for free the goalposts have been moved somewhat.

Say I have some music, as I do, that no record label currently trading sees as commercially viable to release as the amount of money made wouldn't cover the production costs as the fan base is too small - am I supposed to just leave it on my hard-drive, and not let anyone listen to it for the greater good? Surely you give away recordings of DJ mixes/Live acts as promotion in order to get bookings? How different is that to giving away a few freebies now and then to keep certain styles of music alive which would otherwise not be heard, and ultimately be buried because no-one heard them?

As I said before, I truly believe live performance is where it's at these days, and to be honest, I feel it's the creators of the tools with which to make music who are the real innovators in this day and age...

[Microdot]

Say I have some music, as I do, that no record label currently trading sees as commercially viable to release as the amount of money made wouldn't cover the production costs as the fan base is too small - am I supposed to just leave it on my hard-drive, and not let anyone listen to it for the greater good?

Give it away online if you want but, I'd be more inclined to sell it online.
There's tons of sites you can upload your trax to and then sell them, and most pay the same commission as the established download sites, such as Juno and Beatport.

[morbid]

What if my musics so shit even I don't want to listen to it?

What do I do with it then?

[crime]

So, if I end up giving away the music I really want to get out there, because no label would release it, that's going to cause more problems than it solves? Keeping stuff on my HD and not letting anyone else hear it because we're trying to maintain some kind of monetary value on music just seems to be sticking your head into the sand to me - Personally, I'm in no way talking about giving EVERYTHING i do away for free - But I have new sounds and ideas I want to get out there - And it's not happening as far as labels are concerned - Maybe you lot who bang on so much about not giving stuff away for free would like to fund a Vinyl label for me to release the most cutting edge stuff I am making, then maybe I wound't need to give it away for free eh? It's not like I'm an unknown and it's not like my trax are shit- it's just that they don't fit into a pidgeon-hole - this is where my problem lies....

[DarkYoung]

So, if I end up giving away the music I really want to get out there, because no label would release it, that's going to cause more problems than it solves? Keeping stuff on my HD and not letting anyone else hear it because we're trying to maintain some kind of monetary value on music just seems to be sticking your head into the sand to me - Personally, I'm in no way talking about giving EVERYTHING i do away for free - But I have new sounds and ideas I want to get out there - And it's not happening as far as labels are concerned - Maybe you lot who bang on so much about not giving stuff away for free would like to fund a Vinyl label for me to release the most cutting edge stuff I am making, then maybe I wound't need to give it away for free eh? It's not like I'm an unknown and it's not like my trax are shit- it's just that they don't fit into a pidgeon-hole - this is where my problem lies....

the law of supply and demand.

if you have something people want to purchase, wheter it's apples or techno they will buy it.

if people arent buying your music, then you have to ask yourself the questions. or as you say it doesn't fit into some pigeon hole you have to accept that it is never going to be a popular commercial venture. but the time and effort you have put into your music, from a karmic sense it has a value and cannot be given away for nothing; if you want to give your music away to people who do not even value your music as much as they will not pay for it in some kind of tokenistic way, then what is the point?
you may aswell make the music for yourself and be happy about it, unless your ego needs the recognition of others?
if you can't market it properly, then you need to work on that aspect of your enterprise.

[crime]

the law of supply and demand.

if you have something people want to purchase, wheter it's apples or techno they will buy it.

if people arent buying your music, then you have to ask yourself the questions. or as you say it doesn't fit into some pigeon hole you have to accept that it is never going to be a popular commercial venture. but the time and effort you have put into your music, from a karmic sense it has a value and cannot be given away for nothing; if you want to give your music away to people who do not even value your music as much as they will not pay for it in some kind of tokenistic way, then what is the point?
you may aswell make the music for yourself and be happy about it, unless your ego needs the recognition of others?
if you can't market it properly, then you need to work on that aspect of your enterprise.

So- in a nutshell- music is only worth what people are prepared to pay for it - but if you can't sell it you can't give it away, because then you are only doing it to massage your own ego?

maybe I do need to work on my marketing eh? jesus...

[DarkYoung]

So- in a nutshell- music is only worth what people are prepared to pay for it - but if you can't sell it you can't give it away, because then you are only doing it to massage your own ego?

maybe I do need to work on my marketing eh? jesus...

lol. a good artist is never recognised in his lifetime.

[The_Laughing_Man]

lol. a good artist is never recognised in his lifetime.

the thing with techno is that it is transient in nature.
I would say even more transient now, a good tune isn`t so important as a good tool that can be fitted in to 30 seconds-1 minute of a mix.
As mixing becomes easier with technology DJ`s are seeming to feel like they should be doing more and more, more tunes, more mixing etc, so spending ages making a tune that is looked at as a tool anyway, is a bit odd.
Is there place for art in techno?
It`s a funny old game techno, I`m starting to get very confused by it.

[The_Laughing_Man]

the law of supply and demand.

if you have something people want to purchase, wheter it's apples or techno they will buy it.

if people arent buying your music, then you have to ask yourself the questions. or as you say it doesn't fit into some pigeon hole you have to accept that it is never going to be a popular commercial venture. but the time and effort you have put into your music, from a karmic sense it has a value and cannot be given away for nothing; if you want to give your music away to people who do not even value your music as much as they will not pay for it in some kind of tokenistic way, then what is the point?
you may aswell make the music for yourself and be happy about it, unless your ego needs the recognition of others?
if you can't market it properly, then you need to work on that aspect of your enterprise.

what if loads of people ares stealing it and no one is buying it?

though I do agree partly in the drive of what you say

[DarkYoung]

what if loads of people are stealing it and no one is buying it?

though I do agree partly in the drive of what you say

i think by and large people have integrity.
it's not people stealing the music, this is a problem with marketing.

there needs to be a good market model. this is what is failing people at the moment.

if that has to be the acid techno or wonky section of Tesco Entertainment so be it.

i think alot of it is, simply that there isn't much demand, there is a much smaller market, than 5 or 10 years ago even.

techno is a small, niche market. unfortunately if you want your more experimental music to be bought, you have to be mainstream in some way.

do a duo with Alex Reid and Jordan that type of thing.

[The_Laughing_Man]

i think by and large people have integrity.
it's not people stealing the music, this is a problem with marketing.

oh no, people are stealing the music, you only have to run a label and know about 0day to see this.
It`s not the whole of the issue, but it is certainly the issue.
I was on a forum today talking about the new massive attack album that isn`t even out yet, and everyone was talking about it as they had already got their bootlegs from 0day.

Marketing isn`t really the issue either, not exactly. I mean sure you can promote more etc, but the issue is more complex.

[crime]

i think by and large people have integrity.
it's not people stealing the music, this is a problem with marketing.

there needs to be a good market model. this is what is failing people at the moment.

if that has to be the acid techno or wonky section of Tesco Entertainment so be it.

This is very funny.. :D

i think alot of it is, simply that there isn't much demand, there is a much smaller market, than 5 or 10 years ago even.

techno is a small, niche market. unfortunately if you want your more experimental music to be bought, you have to be mainstream in some way.

do a duo with Alex Reid and Jordan that type of thing.

Erm- this was my original point - if it gets to the point where there isn't the demand for certain styles of music, aside from the occasional very limited pressing of the occasional thing, then why not share what music you have - not because you want to feel like the big dick or you expect a load of DJ gigs, but because maybe you think "I like this music I made, maybe someone else will too".

I very much doubt I'd ever give all of my music away for free as I have options to release stuff through labels, the trouble is, these labels want a very specific sound, which they can MARKET easily i.e. it sounds more like a lot of other stuff around.

I started my ### project as I was into stuff like Audion & James T Cotton, along with Relief records and so was making some slower stuff that was more like that, and the bonus was be that I still get to release the occasional 12 on vinyl - as this is the kind of stuff that labels think = sales

But I still make left-field techno stuff but no label seems to be interested in that kind of stuff unless it's a complete parody of itself (i.e. cliched "wonky" techno) - so what is wrong with me giving that stuff away for free just to get it out there? It's not that I feel the need to prove anything, just I feel that people might like that stuff (maybe I'm very wrong and actually they want to be listening to minimalbreakwonkbeat or whatever the latest trend is this week!)

People complain that everything sounds the same, but the moment you try something different, it becomes very difficult to get it out there - and then I'm told it's all about MARKETING? jesus

seems to me that the MARKETING is the very problem, why should we have to put music in convenient little boxes just to shift units? if you're gonna do that then why don't you just go and make some Donk or happy hardcore or whatever- that's far more likely to "shift units"

whatever happened to the love for music? And sharing that with others? why does it have to be all about money?

Anyway, I'm currently thinking that I like the idea of spreading my bets on this one- some freebies now and then, a paid for digital label, the ### stuff and very occasionally a limited to 50 copies coloured vinyl freaky techno ep with gatefold sleeve with some good art on there - give the collectors a piece to pick up...

[Jay Pace]

Seth's Blog: You don't have the power

[crime]

This is why Live performance is so important now, more important than ever - Do you charge for a DJ Mix or a Live performance recording? and surely, if you're NOT charging for a live performance recording, maybe you should be seeing as it's your own original work? What's the difference between giving away a Live performance recording and an EP for free in real terms? I think we have to see the recorded music side of things as pure promo - and do any of you on here really think you can earn a living from techno music in the 21st century purely from sales of recordings? That is the old model - it's time to move on...

[crime]

@ Jay: Word, hit the nail on the head....

[clubsynthetic]

Music becomes devalued the minute you start selling your choons in tesco and start comprimising and giving comperate ****ers 75% the fee of your choon. The fact that the value of a choon is now the amount of records you can sell of it devalues it.

I agree with Crime. Old model needs new ways. Music is MORE THAN ****ING MONEY.

[DannyBlack]

You lot can give your music away free to me any time. Vinyl preferred :-)