Should you give your music away ?

[crime]

the law of supply and demand.

if you have something people want to purchase, wheter it's apples or techno they will buy it.

if people arent buying your music, then you have to ask yourself the questions. or as you say it doesn't fit into some pigeon hole you have to accept that it is never going to be a popular commercial venture. but the time and effort you have put into your music, from a karmic sense it has a value and cannot be given away for nothing; if you want to give your music away to people who do not even value your music as much as they will not pay for it in some kind of tokenistic way, then what is the point?
you may aswell make the music for yourself and be happy about it, unless your ego needs the recognition of others?
if you can't market it properly, then you need to work on that aspect of your enterprise.

So- in a nutshell- music is only worth what people are prepared to pay for it - but if you can't sell it you can't give it away, because then you are only doing it to massage your own ego?

maybe I do need to work on my marketing eh? jesus...

[rhythmtech]

i guess if you feel you dont need to sell your music, but give it free away, then do it. why should you think about other people and what your decision makes to them?? Do they ask you, if you agree with their decisions and their model? would better stick with what you think works best for you.

+1

its your music and your decision what to do with it.

if i make a sandwich and i want to give it to someone must i wait for others opinions on whether its ok to do it? fcuk that, its my sandwich and ill do whatever i please with it.

mmm.. sandwich... on second thoughts ill eat it myself :lol:

[DarkYoung]

So- in a nutshell- music is only worth what people are prepared to pay for it - but if you can't sell it you can't give it away, because then you are only doing it to massage your own ego?

maybe I do need to work on my marketing eh? jesus...

lol. a good artist is never recognised in his lifetime.

[The_Laughing_Man]

the law of supply and demand.

if you have something people want to purchase, wheter it's apples or techno they will buy it.

if people arent buying your music, then you have to ask yourself the questions. or as you say it doesn't fit into some pigeon hole you have to accept that it is never going to be a popular commercial venture. but the time and effort you have put into your music, from a karmic sense it has a value and cannot be given away for nothing; if you want to give your music away to people who do not even value your music as much as they will not pay for it in some kind of tokenistic way, then what is the point?
you may aswell make the music for yourself and be happy about it, unless your ego needs the recognition of others?
if you can't market it properly, then you need to work on that aspect of your enterprise.

what if loads of people ares stealing it and no one is buying it?

though I do agree partly in the drive of what you say

[The_Laughing_Man]

lol. a good artist is never recognised in his lifetime.

the thing with techno is that it is transient in nature.
I would say even more transient now, a good tune isn`t so important as a good tool that can be fitted in to 30 seconds-1 minute of a mix.
As mixing becomes easier with technology DJ`s are seeming to feel like they should be doing more and more, more tunes, more mixing etc, so spending ages making a tune that is looked at as a tool anyway, is a bit odd.
Is there place for art in techno?
It`s a funny old game techno, I`m starting to get very confused by it.

[clubsynthetic]

Why make music for anyone else apart form yourself? Sharing it is just a bonus. Gratitude is an even bigger bonus.

[DarkYoung]

what if loads of people are stealing it and no one is buying it?

though I do agree partly in the drive of what you say

i think by and large people have integrity.
it's not people stealing the music, this is a problem with marketing.

there needs to be a good market model. this is what is failing people at the moment.

if that has to be the acid techno or wonky section of Tesco Entertainment so be it.

i think alot of it is, simply that there isn't much demand, there is a much smaller market, than 5 or 10 years ago even.

techno is a small, niche market. unfortunately if you want your more experimental music to be bought, you have to be mainstream in some way.

do a duo with Alex Reid and Jordan that type of thing.

[DarkYoung]

Why make music for anyone else apart form yourself? Sharing it is just a bonus. Gratitude is an even bigger bonus.

well of course i agree.

a lot of music i do get is shared for nothing from people i know on here, force, scott grey etc on here or on msn etc, i'm sure other people have similar arrangements.
a lot of stuff is on youtube/myspace etc

if you want to share or 'give away for nothing' as is being argued here, i'm not sure that this will still meet what it is you are are wanting.

more bookings or publicity or customers or whatever.

[The_Laughing_Man]

i think by and large people have integrity.
it's not people stealing the music, this is a problem with marketing.

oh no, people are stealing the music, you only have to run a label and know about 0day to see this.
It`s not the whole of the issue, but it is certainly the issue.
I was on a forum today talking about the new massive attack album that isn`t even out yet, and everyone was talking about it as they had already got their bootlegs from 0day.

Marketing isn`t really the issue either, not exactly. I mean sure you can promote more etc, but the issue is more complex.

[DarkYoung]

oh no, people are stealing the music, you only have to run a label and know about 0day to see this.
It`s not the whole of the issue, but it is certainly the issue.
I was on a forum today talking about the new massive attack album that isn`t even out yet, and everyone was talking about it as they had already got their bootlegs from 0day.

Marketing isn`t really the issue either, not exactly. I mean sure you can promote more etc, but the issue is more complex.

what is oday??

so the strategy to beat the thieves is to say well you can have it for free now anyway?
thieves being the target audience?

[The_Laughing_Man]

no

[vegim]

20 % selled
80% shared.
(torrents, rapidshare, soulseek)

Of course I am giving my music for free to that 80%.

[Microdot]

+1

its your music and your decision what to do with it.

if i make a sandwich and i want to give it to someone must i wait for others opinions on whether its ok to do it? fcuk that, its my sandwich and ill do whatever i please with it.

mmm.. sandwich... on second thoughts ill eat it myself :lol:

fcuk giving your sandwiches away dude.
If you give your shitty butties away for free, people might be less inclined to pay money for my gourmet sandwiches.

[crime]

i think by and large people have integrity.
it's not people stealing the music, this is a problem with marketing.

there needs to be a good market model. this is what is failing people at the moment.

if that has to be the acid techno or wonky section of Tesco Entertainment so be it.

This is very funny.. :D

i think alot of it is, simply that there isn't much demand, there is a much smaller market, than 5 or 10 years ago even.

techno is a small, niche market. unfortunately if you want your more experimental music to be bought, you have to be mainstream in some way.

do a duo with Alex Reid and Jordan that type of thing.

Erm- this was my original point - if it gets to the point where there isn't the demand for certain styles of music, aside from the occasional very limited pressing of the occasional thing, then why not share what music you have - not because you want to feel like the big dick or you expect a load of DJ gigs, but because maybe you think "I like this music I made, maybe someone else will too".

I very much doubt I'd ever give all of my music away for free as I have options to release stuff through labels, the trouble is, these labels want a very specific sound, which they can MARKET easily i.e. it sounds more like a lot of other stuff around.

I started my ### project as I was into stuff like Audion & James T Cotton, along with Relief records and so was making some slower stuff that was more like that, and the bonus was be that I still get to release the occasional 12 on vinyl - as this is the kind of stuff that labels think = sales

But I still make left-field techno stuff but no label seems to be interested in that kind of stuff unless it's a complete parody of itself (i.e. cliched "wonky" techno) - so what is wrong with me giving that stuff away for free just to get it out there? It's not that I feel the need to prove anything, just I feel that people might like that stuff (maybe I'm very wrong and actually they want to be listening to minimalbreakwonkbeat or whatever the latest trend is this week!)

People complain that everything sounds the same, but the moment you try something different, it becomes very difficult to get it out there - and then I'm told it's all about MARKETING? jesus

seems to me that the MARKETING is the very problem, why should we have to put music in convenient little boxes just to shift units? if you're gonna do that then why don't you just go and make some Donk or happy hardcore or whatever- that's far more likely to "shift units"

whatever happened to the love for music? And sharing that with others? why does it have to be all about money?

Anyway, I'm currently thinking that I like the idea of spreading my bets on this one- some freebies now and then, a paid for digital label, the ### stuff and very occasionally a limited to 50 copies coloured vinyl freaky techno ep with gatefold sleeve with some good art on there - give the collectors a piece to pick up...

[davethedrummer]

I have to say that of all the people on the board I'm surprised to hear you say
"why does it always have to be about money" the most Mark.

I mean, Yeah I'm with you, it makes me feel the same too.
exasperated.
but still, come on, it IS about money
it's ALWAYS been about money.
even when it's FREE it's about the fact that it's not about the money
which means indirectly it IS about the money.

there is no way out.

It's really a question of just doing what you want right now isn't it, and sod everything else?

for most people the "marketing" side of selling music has become so intense that it's a no-go
there's not enough money for you to give up yer day job and slug it out on the internet with a load of corporate music companies who've got all the cash in the world
or bash heads with a load of 20 somethings who are doing music technology degrees and have all the time in the world

so sod it
give it away and get gigs instead?
and do a day job to feed the family, seems like the only way out right now.

anyone need a new website ?

[DarkYoung]

I have to say that of all the people on the board I'm surprised to hear you say
"why does it always have to be about money" the most Mark.

I mean, Yeah I'm with you, it makes me feel the same too.
exasperated.
but still, come on, it IS about money
it's ALWAYS been about money.
even when it's FREE it's about the fact that it's not about the money
which means indirectly it IS about the money.

there is no way out.

It's really a question of just doing what you want right now isn't it, and sod everything else?

for most people the "marketing" side of selling music has become so intense that it's a no-go
there's not enough money for you to give up yer day job and slug it out on the internet with a load of corporate music companies who've got all the cash in the world
or bash heads with a load of 20 somethings who are doing music technology degrees and have all the time in the world

so sod it
give it away and get gigs instead?
and do a day job to feed the family, seems like the only way out right now.

anyone need a new website ?

ok can you put up your unreleased acid techno then please?

[rhythmtech]

fcuk giving your sandwiches away dude.
If you give your shitty butties away for free, people might be less inclined to pay money for my gourmet sandwiches.

i stopped making sandwiches a long time ago jon. now i just do the presentation for other people who've already made them.

and if you cant sell your gourmet sandwiches then maybe your cooking style is out of fashion... :lol:

im hungry now.

[crime]

I have to say that of all the people on the board I'm surprised to hear you say
"why does it always have to be about money" the most Mark.

I mean, Yeah I'm with you, it makes me feel the same too.
exasperated.
but still, come on, it IS about money
it's ALWAYS been about money.
even when it's FREE it's about the fact that it's not about the money
which means indirectly it IS about the money.

there is no way out.

It's really a question of just doing what you want right now isn't it, and sod everything else?

for most people the "marketing" side of selling music has become so intense that it's a no-go
there's not enough money for you to give up yer day job and slug it out on the internet with a load of corporate music companies who've got all the cash in the world
or bash heads with a load of 20 somethings who are doing music technology degrees and have all the time in the world

so sod it
give it away and get gigs instead?
and do a day job to feed the family, seems like the only way out right now.

anyone need a new website ?

I got a lot happier about life once I got a day job - and I found the standard of my music (IMO) got better too - Although I make a lot less than I used to.

The marketing thing is depressing- seems like in many ways it ends up being more about that than the music itself- this is why I get to the point where I think "**** it- just give it away for free and bypass all that bullshit- I can make the money on the gigs".. I would sell mp3s from my website if I could sell more than 20 downloads - we did try before with the digital version of the kitty corner release- sold about 3 or 400 of the vinyl- but 20 downloads- easier to get on soulseek I guess..

[DarkYoung]

I got a lot happier about life once I got a day job - and I found the standard of my music (IMO) got better too - Although I make a lot less than I used to.

The marketing thing is depressing- seems like in many ways it ends up being more about that than the music itself- this is why I get to the point where I think "**** it- just give it away for free and bypass all that bullshit- I can make the money on the gigs".. I would sell mp3s from my website if I could sell more than 20 downloads - we did try before with the digital version of the kitty corner release- sold about 3 or 400 of the vinyl- but 20 downloads- easier to get on soulseek I guess..

i've never understood why you can't all work together in some kind of cooperative to make it work somehow?
i mean on this site there are the most intelligent/creative people in the world.
a lot of people here are also capitalist corporate boys, who know how the system works.
quit whining and do something about it.
i figure u enjoy moaning.

[Microdot]

i stopped making sandwiches a long time ago jon. now i just do the presentation for other people who've already made them.

and if you cant sell your gourmet sandwiches then maybe your cooking style is out of fashion... :lol:

im hungry now.

yeah, maybe my tuna's a bit dated these days.