Should you give your music away ?

[davethedrummer]

Something Mark Hawkins said in another post really rang a bell in my head
and I'm now thinking about just giving away my music for free.
I mean f^ck it, If the sales are crap anyway, why not just give it away ?
at least more people will hear it and maybe more gigs will come out of it.

thoughts ?

[DannyBlack]

good topic, Henry.


Right. I personally came in at the wrong time to make money from music so I'm not going to delude myself into thinking I ever will. If someone likes a track and wants to release it, any money (if any) it makes they can put it into the label and thats how I like it. I never wanted this to be about money for me.

Again thats my personal view of how I want things to work for me. I have my other career to keep me in pence. That is, when I'm qualified etc...

This is the only side of it I know.

I think nowadays it is more performance orientated than say putting out CD's. The money to sustain what you do would come from shows that you put on (audio/visual)

If you want to make money from music, you have to be clever about it. Techno, whether we like it or not is an underground thing that will never enjoy any real commercial success. Im not saying make minimal- make other things, work on concepts- marketing stratergies. thats what business is- advertising and marketing and being bloody clever.

im not sure where i was heading with this- am i making sense?

[jon connor]

good topic, Henry.


Right. I personally came in at the wrong time to make money from music so I'm not going to delude myself into thinking I ever will. If someone likes a track and wants to release it, any money (if any) it makes they can put it into the label and thats how I like it. I never wanted this to be about money for me.

Again thats my personal view of how I want things to work for me. I have my other career to keep me in pence. That is, when I'm qualified etc...

This is the only side of it I know.

I think nowadays it is more performance orientated than say putting out CD's. The money to sustain what you do would come from shows that you put on (audio/visual)

If you want to make money from music, you have to be clever about it. Techno, whether we like it or not is an underground thing that will never enjoy any real commercial success. Im not saying make minimal- make other things, work on concepts- marketing stratergies. thats what business is- advertising and marketing and being bloody clever.

im not sure where i was heading with this- am i making sense?

fair play danny well said im the same as you here dude i have a career which will keep me in pence to but techno is my hobby and also a good source of social life for me and has been for 16 years so im thinking in the same way about giving future trax away as it may help with more bookings for gigs etc
but erm some of us are diffrent here and in it it for diffrnt reasons but yea i never thought of making a living from this just a great social life and intrests , some people play bingo hahahahahaha

Henry i wouldent give your stuff away to easy dude , if you are thinking about it then mabey try and have a time limit on the sale then mabey move into an area say set up on your hydraulix network you can put for free, that way in time you will not only please a lot of fans but have a nice back cat which will b availble at any time to retrieve i dunno just an idea man mabey have a hydraulix free section this may also increase the traffic to your site.

[a X cell]

I want to read more about this subject.
Seriously, I'm going pretty much everywhere to find some label to release an EP I worked hard on. And personally, the goal within this is just to get my music listened at, not getting money out of it (altough it would be pleasing since studies cost a lot these days but let's be realist, who the f*** would buy some song from some newcomer they never heard of?).
Should I stop sending CDs to labels and come over and give my music for free? =S

[tonyc2002]

I want to read more about this subject.
Seriously, I'm going pretty much everywhere to find some label to release an EP I worked hard on. And personally, the goal within this is just to get my music listened at, not getting money out of it (altough it would be pleasing since studies cost a lot these days but let's be realist, who the f*** would buy some song from some newcomer they never heard of?).
Should I stop sending CDs to labels and come over and give my music for free? =S

I wouldn't mind hearing your music! :)

[qUE]

Depends on your overheads. If you're filthy rich, why not? But if you're not and you've had to shell out for vinyl pressing, distribution and bacon sandwiches, then you should at least try and recoup that money. Well that's my theory anyway :)

[davethedrummer]

Interesting points so far
I get that point about wanting it but not paying for it.
that was marks point exactly, and he said that as soon as he put his stuff up free it really started moving.
I gues the thing to do is ask if it has made any difference in any other areas of marks working life.
like has he got more paid work from it ?
because at the end of the day tracks take time to make, good or bad tracks
and you can't spend your entire life making tracks for nothing , it's just not possible.
unless you want to starve to death in your studio.

an to A X Cell yeah mate , I would just give it away if your very new to the scene
just to get an idea of an audience reaction.
forget the record deal idea for now, record labels are mostly crap anyway these days.

[crime]

Interesting points so far
I get that point about wanting it but not paying for it.
that was marks point exactly, and he said that as soon as he put his stuff up free it really started moving.
I gues the thing to do is ask if it has made any difference in any other areas of marks working life.
like has he got more paid work from it ?
because at the end of the day tracks take time to make, good or bad tracks
and you can't spend your entire life making tracks for nothing , it's just not possible.
unless you want to starve to death in your studio.

an to A X Cell yeah mate , I would just give it away if your very new to the scene
just to get an idea of an audience reaction.
forget the record deal idea for now, record labels are mostly crap anyway these days.

my 2p:

My experience of trying to sell my album made me re-evaluate everything- I took about 18 months out of making music after that experience as it depressed me deeply at the time - but in the end I really wanted to make music again, so I made music because I wanted to - this is the best reason to make music and the results are much better for it - When I was earning a living from music, I had a lot of time to write stuff, but I really don't think the quality was necessarily any better. You lose the hunger for it, and also you feel that you should be making music even if you have no good ideas, because it's your job. You make trax out of liveset trax which you had to write just because you had a live gig you had to do to pay the rent. You then try and sell the trax to a label as you need to maximise the income for the work. Then you meet the Artistic freedom vs market forces argument which often happens with labels, where the label is telling you "oh it has to be more like this or like that" to sell units. Changing your style, even slightly, just to sell records is the biggest mistake you can ever make as then you are diluting your own artistic vision - therefore diluting you uniqueness, which, if you have a lot of originality, is the card you are playing -

giving stuff away for free gives you the ultimate freedom to express yourself exactly the way you want to- no label saying "oh, make it more like this/make it more like that".. for the money that can be made out of mp3 or even Vinyl releases it's not worth diluting yourself just to get on this or that label. As Henry says labels can be a pain to deal with anyway.. and whilst it is a buzz to hear people playing your stuff out - if that is your sole motivation behind making music, to "get somewhere", I really think you should be making a style of music which is more popular - if you try and do it with techno/IDM you will be sorely disappointed.

People know my name, and I get a few gigs a year - but I still have to work 9-5 to live - many people are under the illusion that once you get picked up by a big label, that's it, you have no worries, your life is going to be like something out of MTV "Cribs". doesn't work like that. I guess giving some stuff away for free has probably helped in some way, but I think doing a weekly mix has helped me more as far as getting gigs is concerned - but it's hard to say, as these things come in waves, you might do no records and have an amazing gig year, you might do 10 releases and have a slack year...

[scott_robinson]

I am new to this forum and so far I am begining to feel at home here. After reading this thread I fealt I had to add.

I have been away from the 'music business' and recently decided I had to do it again. Simply to just be creative.

My job is boring, no suprise there we probably all hate our jobs however I make computer games for a living. I won't argue it should be the most fun in the world you can get paid to do. I thought it would be great but like everything else these days created on a computer there is no market any longer for computer games with any kind of plot or substance because people download so much. This means publishers just want a version of the biggest selling game that year. So I find that I had to get back to the music to vent my creative passion.

Mark actually talked me into it and I am glad he did.

Basically I started writing 'techno' in the early 90's and it was new and exciting the scene was alive. As the years went on it changed and morphed through many phases. The one thing that has always remained constant is the style I choose to do. No one could ever really put it into a genre and I used to hate that.

However. That is, irronically, why Iam now writing techno again. Because you can do what you want.

I have friends in the rock and pop worlds and they have to conform so much that it is upsetting. I don't. I can go home after a shitty day at work and hammer out some group of sounds and rhythms that capture that mood forever.

I released a song on Cluster once that I am really glad the Liberator boys released quite simply because it was pure punk. My boss had pissed me off at work I came home and wrote it in an hour. It was pure emotion. The song was ready from the night before and I came home and whacked all the levels on the desk up to overload and recorded it.

Anyway back on topic.

I dont think anything has changed since 7 years ago when I stopped writing to now when I have returned.

Yes we have more tools and yes we can get our work heard by someone in Austrailia minutes after we upload it. But in the early 90's it was just as hard for me. Take away the internet and software and roll back time and you have the same disadvantages you have today.

I had to post demos. I couldn't afford the equipment that LFO had. So it was harder to get together a good demo on a tight budget. But I never gave up.

Now it's the other way round. The sounds are easy to get and the equipment is far cheaper. So when balanced out all you have left is raw talent.

Make something good and people will listen, make something different and they won't forget.

In the past music was about capturing an emotion that could relate to others the great thing about techno is you can do that, anyone can.

To get back on point. I will happily let people have my music for free if they REALLY want it. If it makes them feel something then it has served it's purpose. If you crave fame then maybe that will only come through hard work as it always has done. I have always made sure I dont have to live on my music so that I can be free to do what I want to do.

People I know in bands are always saying to me 'must be great to just hammer out what you want when you want' and I say 'yeah but it can be lonely sometimes' :D. Everything has pros ad cons.Those people in that band got a 500 000 quid advance, which they are still paying back some 15 years on because the label dropped them.

I am sorry about the length of my first post here but the subject is an important one and I am extremely interested in peoples views having been away for a while. As Mark said 'my 2 pence worth'.

http://www.myspace.com/scottrobinsontechno

[rhythmtech]

nice first post scott... and man i remember your stuff from years ago! think i used to hammer out a tune of yours on cluster?

[tonyc2002]

I am new to this forum and so far I am begining to feel at home here. After reading this thread I fealt I had to add.

I have been away from the 'music business' and recently decided I had to do it again. Simply to just be creative.

My job is boring, no suprise there we probably all hate our jobs however I make computer games for a living.

I made a website using Actionscript!!!!!! Can I have a job!?? :cheese:

[DannyBlack]

I would agree. The advent of digital has brought about a bigger amount of piracy though. We have traktor now so there is no need for us to shell out for vinyl. Don't get me wrong though, I still pay for my music- but there are countless amounts of forums with the tracks up on Rapidshare.

[morbid]

For someone of your calibre I can only see you gaining.

No disrespect to you.... but

Before the digital thing came along I used to buy up all your vinyl releases, hydraulix, boscaland, routemaster etc etc. there was no other way to get hold of your music.

Nowadays I wouldnt pay for one of your digital releases, not because its not worth anything but because theres so much else out there that I dont have to pay for.

I spend a minimum of about 2 hours a day listening to new music and I haven't bought a CD or record for over 3 years. I have hard drives full of quality stuff that I haven't even got round to listening to through rapidshare or netlabels. Im not saying its the right thing to do (not paying for music) but its the way things have become. In rare cases if I like the free stuff I do download the album or whatever but in terms of revenue I dont think its about the music anymore, its about the name and the brand and the performance.

I wouldn't pick up a mutate to survive on digital if I had to pay for it. I would definately download if it was free.

Do you gain from this - I don't know. Your music becomes more accesible to a wider target audience providing you centralise your distribution of the freebies. ie. all digital releases availble for free at (www.) davethedrummer.com. as Mark does. That way you can track who is downloading your music. You don't gain financially but you gain a better perspective of where your music is popular giving you ideas about where to market your DJ / Live performances better.

[BloodStar]

givin your music away for free will definitelly give you back your artistic freedom, and as you are not earning money from sales, cause they are shite as you said, then you wont looose much.

i guess if you will be smart while advertising your free releases, you can find new audience and build new fanbase. Then you can back it up with some clever merchandising, and you are profiting. Not financially, but in other ways. Last but not least, musical wise your artistic fredom won't be limited by labels, which regardless money, will be the biggest benefit for yourself, imo.

[DannyBlack]

On one hand, they way things have gone is complete minge, but on the other hand it is pretty healthy. Now is the time to start brain storming on new ideas and ways to run with music.

ps I sent you a PM on sound cloud H, about your dubstep tune.

[Jay Pace]

Do a radiohead - give it away for free, but with a donation attached. Then everyone who feels like paying can, and you can track all the downloads, know how many people got hold of it and you'll probably get more than the 12p a track thats leftover after everyone and their dog has taken an percentage cut.

Radiohead made much more money as well, giving stuff away. They didn't have to pay anyone to distribute, a zillion people got their album and they got paid much more for their work than normal.

I think its a great strategy.

[morbid]

Do a radiohead - give it away for free, but with a donation attached. Then everyone who feels like paying can, and you can track all the downloads, know how many people got hold of it and you'll probably get more than the 12p a track thats leftover after everyone and their dog has taken an percentage cut.

Radiohead made much more money as well, giving stuff away. They didn't have to pay anyone to distribute, a zillion people got their album and they got paid much more for their work than normal.

I think its a great strategy.

spot on - like I said I wouldn't pay for a mutate to survive release even though I like them - let me download them all as 320's or WAV and I would bung a quid or two by paypal no problem.

Or the Hydraulix complete back catalogue - thats gotta be worth at least a fiver. :)

[davethedrummer]

spot on - like I said I wouldn't pay for a mutate to survive release even though I like them - let me download them all as 320's or WAV and I would bung a quid or two by paypal no problem.

Or the Hydraulix complete back catalogue - thats gotta be worth at least a fiver. :)

yeah maybe that's the way
cos if there's a lot more people like you thinking the same thing
I could bung my stuff up with a donation button make a few quid , you all get tracks for dirt cheap
and we're all happy

aren't we ?......

[DarkYoung]

yeah maybe that's the way
cos if there's a lot more people like you thinking the same thing
I could bung my stuff up with a donation button make a few quid , you all get tracks for dirt cheap
and we're all happy

aren't we ?......

totally stupid idea.

in a karmic sense you might aswell slash your own throat.

everything is worth something.

if you give it away for free, then it is worthless to you and everybody else.

[DannyBlack]

Absolutely. I steal software, I'm not gonna try and deny it. Music, I won't steal. I have only just started on the digital path due to the advent of Traktor.

The option to donate is class I think. And I'm pretty sure people would have the respect to do so. Id hope they would. Plus you don't need to pay distro.