really thank you all a lot..this really helped i was in between some of that shit here n there..u know close but no cigar..lol..im gunan try that volume thing on the kick..that is what i thought was happening but not sure how to do it in sounforge..what is the name of that effect in soundforge..i use fruity loops to..can i use one of those effects or soemthing? or maybe a plug in..thanks so much again..and you all may not know the producers i am in to becuase they are on hardcore labels..like THIRDMOVEMENT.NL (CHECK OUT PEEKY POUNDER and RUDE AWAKENING) really dirty distorted sounds..which i liek cuz im a gabber..but who knows/...if u really like hard angry techno..ull like this..ok thanks again..maybe some1 can help with this ? now...and then ill put u all in my debbt...hehe piece